• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is ALL life precious?

I say we leave evil lying in shallow graves and if a judgement day does come, then may God come and judge me for what the rightgeous have done. Although I deem life to be very precious, quite frankly we are running out of room. Maybe we should not kill them just send them to the artic and let them attempt to survive, give them a months supply of mri's and some tools. If they show the tenacity to live through one of the harshest climates on the planet then they can keep on living. :)
 
Ormiston said:
Why is it obvious?

Didn't you just say, "Somethimes killing is appropriate to preserve your own precious life."? lol...it seems pretty obvious to you, then, so why are you asking me?

It seems obvious to me because, if someone is trying to take your life, it is only instinctual and natural to try and somehow defend yourself (or, if a way is available, to escape). In a life and death situation, if someone is trying to take your innocent life (e.g. stab you to death), you cannot be blamed for injuring that person, even mortally. Isn't that obvious?

FerventGodSeeker
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
Didn't you just say, "Somethimes killing is appropriate to preserve your own precious life."? lol...it seems pretty obvious to you, then, so why are you asking me?

It seems obvious to me because, if someone is trying to take your life, it is only instinctual and natural to try and somehow defend yourself (or, if a way is available, to escape). In a life and death situation, if someone is trying to take your innocent life (e.g. stab you to death), you cannot be blamed for injuring that person, even mortally. Isn't that obvious?

FerventGodSeeker

I'm asking because if it's so obvious that killing in self-defense is appropriate, then why is it not equally obvious that some people need to be killed for other reasons. When I said "your own precious life." I didn't just mean the immediate life, ie. life vs. death, but also the quality of an entire life.
 
Ormiston said:
I'm asking because if it's so obvious that killing in self-defense is appropriate, then why is it not equally obvious that some people need to be killed for other reasons. When I said "your own precious life." I didn't just mean the immediate life, ie. life vs. death, but also the quality of an entire life.

I do believe that it is "equally obvious" that some people need to be killed (more specifically, executed)for reasons other than immediate self-defense. As I said earlier, I believe that a person who intentionally and maliciously takes the life of an innocent person, they surrender their own right to live, and deserve death. Obviously I don't believe such justice is only acceptable in the exact moment that someone is, say, coming at you with a knife....I believe that such justice can be sentenced to a person after they have already committed the act (i.e. they can be sentenced to death by a court of law).

FerventGodSeeker
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
I do believe that it is "equally obvious" that some people need to be killed (more specifically, executed)for reasons other than immediate self-defense. As I said earlier, I believe that a person who intentionally and maliciously takes the life of an innocent person, they surrender their own right to live, and deserve death. Obviously I don't believe such justice is only acceptable in the exact moment that someone is, say, coming at you with a knife....I believe that such justice can be sentenced to a person after they have already committed the act (i.e. they can be sentenced to death by a court of law).

FerventGodSeeker

And all this time, we agreed... :D
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
TimetoWasteTimeToWait said:
I say we leave evil lying in shallow graves and if a judgement day does come, then may God come and judge me for what the rightgeous have done. Although I deem life to be very precious, quite frankly we are running out of room. Maybe we should not kill them just send them to the artic and let them attempt to survive, give them a months supply of mri's and some tools. If they show the tenacity to live through one of the harshest climates on the planet then they can keep on living. :)
I like these creative death sentences.

Sunstone said:
Despite appearances, the notion that all life is precious is not contradicted by the cosmic tragedy that life feeds on life, and that death and killing are a part of nature. It may confuse our modern sensibilities that there is such an apparent contradiction between those two things, but historically many peoples seem to have been able to hold both views simultaneously. The bushido class in Japan, for instance. Or the ancient Greeks.
:clap Yes, it is natural. And used correctly, I see nothing wrong with it. Life feeds on life...this...is...necessary.
(ok Tool fans, name that tune)

Ormiston said:
Sometimes killing is appropriate to preserve your own precious life.
Fo' shizza.
 

Ormiston

Well-Known Member
Faint said:
:clap Yes, it is natural. And used correctly, I see nothing wrong with it. Life feeds on life...this...is...necessary.
(ok Tool fans, name that tune)

I don't remember, but I do know we should "Let the rabbits wear glasses!"
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
turk179 said:
I agree that all life is precious and that most sentient creatures would agree that their life is precious but do all sentient creatures deserve that precious life after committing atrocities? I would have to say no. Leaving this decision up to the masses can cause some serious problems though.

What is sentient, anyway? Is my cat sentient? Probably not like humans are, but he certainly has feelings. I'm not sure the weeds in my garden are sentient or have feelings, so I have no compunction about killing them.

I KNOW cockroaches only deserve death. They come from hell, and to there they should return. :149:

Maybe the question to ask is whether unnecessary cruelty and/or death is warranted?

I've killed feral cats before, because they were attacking a friend's grandma while she was hanging out the laundry. I've shot a dog before, because he attacked an infant who in no way could have been pestering him. But I wouldn't kill the neighbor's cat or dog, or even a feral cat where there was no question of ecological balance. I've killed deer and pheasant that would've died slowly of starvation in a bad winter had I not killed them. I considered that a form of mercy. I ate them. Why waste things?

I don't eat veal, because I know too much about its production, and I believe it is unnecessarly cruel. I prefer cage free organic eggs, because they taste better, and I know too much about how most laying hens are treated to want to eat the normal mass-produced kind.

The powers-that-be that poison the world because they are more interested in an additional cent on dollar investment clearly do not believe that all life is precious. And you can see the results of their actions very clearly.

So yes, I do believe that all life is precious. We can't go through life without harming some life, somewhere, sometime. But wanton destruction of life happens when one does NOT think that all life is precious.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Relevant to how we see life in the US, Mark Shea (Catholic Apologists) shares the following:

Consider: One of the major arguments for the death penalty is that it is, allegedly, a deterrent. So how do we implement this "deterrent"? We could get the first ten people out of the phone book to be executioners. If it comes to that some of my blog readers were (disturbingly) eager to execute criminals. We could make them executioners. Instead we get "qualified medical professionals" to execute people. Why? Because you need a college degree to do it? Nope. It's not that hard to kill a man and an eager butcher from the local meat store could do it as painlessly as any "qualified medical professional". But instead of hiring my zealous comboxers or the local butcher and doing it the old fashioned way, with spurting blood in the town square or on TV (which is the only conceivable way the death penalty could really act as a deterrent), we now cloak the whole thing in white coats, sterile fields, and gleaming lab-like environments that are absolutely invisible to everybody but the condemned, his executioners, and a couple of witnesses. No boozy headsman with an axe or noose. No spurting blood and no jerking struggles at the end of a rope to scare the living daylights out of potential criminals. Above all, no cameras please. We want people who look neat and clean and professional to go into the little room and do the job with maximum sterility and we don't care that we are forcing the one profession that specifically takes an oath to do no harm to commit the ultimate act of violence to a human being.

In short, we care more about aesthetics than about consistency. And we do it for every form of death we administer from the prison to the Schiavo hospice to the abortuary, because we have this hope that by privatizing and sanitizing our violence, it will make us feel better about committing it. None of that is to say that capital punishment is equal to euthanasia. It is to say that it shows a deeply divided conscience about our culture of death.

So do I want to see a return to the town square running with blood? On the contrary, I agree with Pope John Paul II that the death penalty should only be enacted when absolutely necessary. And I think that, at some level, so does most of our conscience-haunted culture. There is no other word to describe our strange insistence on hiding the violence we do than "shame".
 
Victor said:
In short, we care more about aesthetics than about consistency. And we do it for every form of death we administer from the prison to the Schiavo hospice to the abortuary, because we have this hope that by privatizing and sanitizing our violence, it will make us feel better about committing it. None of that is to say that capital punishment is equal to euthanasia. It is to say that it shows a deeply divided conscience about our culture of death...the death penalty should only be enacted when absolutely necessary.

I hardly think it's fair to compare killing an innocent child in the womb with the execution of a serial killer. That's not a "deeply divided conscience", that just common sense. He says that formal execution is "privatizing and sanitizing our violence"...how is giving someone a shot "violent"?
In what instances is the death penalty "absolutely necessary"?

FerventGodSeeker
 

evearael

Well-Known Member
I agree with Pope John Paul II that it should only be used when absolutely necessary, but is sanitizing it really that bad? Should the streets run red with the blood of the evil? Or are there better options for implementation than these extremes?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
evearael said:
I agree with Pope John Paul II that it should only be used when absolutely necessary, but is sanitizing it really that bad? Should the streets run red with the blood of the evil? Or are there better options for implementation than these extremes?

I do think it's absurd to ask doctors to perform executions, considering the very meaning of their profession.

There are very rare cases where I would be willing to kill the criminal myself, since we have other options. So I find it hard to ask someone else to do the dirty work.
 

turk179

I smell something....
Booko said:
What is sentient, anyway? Is my cat sentient? Probably not like humans are, but he certainly has feelings. I'm not sure the weeds in my garden are sentient or have feelings, so I have no compunction about killing them.
I was referring to the word sentient as described in the dictionary. A basic definition would be capable of perception or conscious.

Booko said:
I KNOW cockroaches only deserve death. They come from hell, and to there they should return. :149:

Maybe the question to ask is whether unnecessary cruelty and/or death is warranted?

I've killed feral cats before, because they were attacking a friend's grandma while she was hanging out the laundry. I've shot a dog before, because he attacked an infant who in no way could have been pestering him. But I wouldn't kill the neighbor's cat or dog, or even a feral cat where there was no question of ecological balance. I've killed deer and pheasant that would've died slowly of starvation in a bad winter had I not killed them. I considered that a form of mercy. I ate them. Why waste things?
turk179 said:
Leaving this decision up to the masses can cause some serious problems though
My previous post seemed to be a good enough reply to this and I'll add that not everyone's opinion on what deserves to die is the same. Who knows, there might be someone out there that thinks that you would look good on their mantle:eek: .

Booko said:
I don't eat veal, because I know too much about its production, and I believe it is unnecessarily cruel. I prefer cage free organic eggs, because they taste better, and I know too much about how most laying hens are treated to want to eat the normal mass-produced kind.

The powers-that-be that poison the world because they are more interested in an additional cent on dollar investment clearly do not believe that all life is precious. And you can see the results of their actions very clearly.

So yes, I do believe that all life is precious. We can't go through life without harming some life, somewhere, sometime. But wanton destruction of life happens when one does NOT think that all life is precious.
For the most part I do agree with the rest of your post.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
turk179 said:
I was referring to the word sentient as described in the dictionary. A basic definition would be capable of perception or conscious.

By that definition, I guess my cat would be sentient.

My previous post seemed to be a good enough reply to this and I'll add that not everyone's opinion on what deserves to die is the same. Who knows, there might be someone out there that thinks that you would look good on their mantle:eek: .

I question the aesthetic of anyone who thinks I would look good on their mantle. They're at least 20 years too late for that. :sarcastic

But no, I wouldn't expect people to share all opinions on who deserves to die.

I'm not sure anyone actually *deserves* to die. There are a few people I wouldn't particularly mourn if they passed on, but I wouldn't care to do anything to help them along.
 
Top