Is Abortion Murder?

[anyscientologist]

On the Scientologese point of view, abortion is something that most not happen. "Man has no right to kill his own kind".

Is killing a human being murder? (Save when the life of the mother is in danger).

 

[Aeiralo]

But when does one become a human being should be the question.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

On the Scientologese point of view, abortion is something that most not happen. "Man has no right to kill his own kind".

Is killing a human being murder? (Save when the life of the mother is in danger).

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
mur·der

/ˈmɜr

dər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mur-der] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).


As abortion is legal, by definition it can't be murder.
Whether it's your opinion that an embryo is a human being from 4 cells, or 8 cells, or 5 weeks or whatever and that abortion is wrong full stop, it doesn't meet the definition of murder. I'm sure someone will read the above definition and scream,'Oh, premeditation!! It fits, it fits!', but the operative words are 'under conditions specifically covered by law.'
Interesting to see you've got a self defence clause in there too, though.

 

[jacquie4000]

To be honest I am tired of abortion threads, sorry to burst your bubble, but I feel like it is an epidemic or something.

 

[UnTheist]

No offense, but these abortion discussions have been occuring ad nauseum. Whether it is immoral or not will not ban abortions, and doing so would violate a woman's rights.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If I was to shoot a pregnant woman and her child died, would I not be charged with murder?

 

[UnTheist]

If I was to shoot a pregnant woman and her child died, would I not be charged with murder?

Possibly, for killing the baby, since it was not the shooter's baby. And also for attempted murder for shooting the woman.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So if she was walking into a clinic to have an abortion, I killed the child, but the mother or doctor did not. Is it a life or not? It is not for the Mother and is for the shooter. Hmmmm

 

[UnTheist]

So if she was walking into a clinic to have an abortion, I killed the child, but the mother or doctor did not. Is it a life or not? It is not for the Mother and is for the shooter. Hmmmm

How exactly would you kill the unborn baby? If you asked the doctor if you could do it, it would be the same thing.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It could be a car accident if that would help

 

[Ðanisty]

If I was to shoot a pregnant woman and her child died, would I not be charged with murder?

As far as I know, the murder of a pregnant woman only constitutes murder of two people if she's at a certain stage of pregnancy. Either way, it doesn't fit because of the definition of murder and the laws of abortion.

 

[Reverend Rick]

As far as I know, the murder of a pregnant woman only constitutes murder of two people if she's at a certain stage of pregnancy. Either way, it doesn't fit because of the definition of murder and the laws of abortion.

The laws are in conflict. That's my only point.

 

[constantine]

l think a good start would be to fight for the human rights of the children in this world who are already born. lts easy to be an armchair activist towards something you have no control over.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

If I was to shoot a pregnant woman and her child died, would I not be charged with murder?

That's because the Unborn Victims Of Violence Act states that a 'child in utero' is a legal victim if injured or killed during the commission of any of the 60+ listed federal crimes of violence. Only 34 of the states have similar laws.
All these laws clearly exclude abortion as being covered by them, as they should, because if they weren't clear in the wording, someone with the sole purpose of trying to prove a point would be tying up court time trying to prosecute doctors for performing a legal procedure.

 

[Booko]

On the Scientologese point of view, abortion is something that most not happen. "Man has no right to kill his own kind".

Is killing a human being murder? (Save when the life of the mother is in danger).

Is Scientology also against capital punishment then? (Just curious, mostly -- I hadn't heard a position on abortion mentioned before.)

 

[Ðanisty]

The laws are in conflict. That's my only point.

Actually they are not. The laws are written carefully. Abortion may be what you can consider and exception to the rule of murder, but it isn't murder itself. Obviously you feel they are in moral conflict...but they aren't in legal conflict.

 

[McBell]

So if she was walking into a clinic to have an abortion, I killed the child, but the mother or doctor did not. Is it a life or not? It is not for the Mother and is for the shooter. Hmmmm

First off, you really need to shelve your misconception that abortion fits under the definition of murder.

Second, since abortion is NOT illegal and shooting someone, regardless of their being pregnant, IS illegal, you have no basis for comparison. They are two completely different legal situations.

Third, I have not heard anyone make any claims what-so-ever that a fetus or embryo is not a life. This is an appeal to emotion strawman that is way over used.

 

[McBell]

On the Scientologese point of view, abortion is something that most not happen. "Man has no right to kill his own kind".

Does man have a right to defend himself?
Or is he to merely allow someone who is intent on killing them to kill them?

Is killing a human being murder? (Save when the life of the mother is in danger).

Ah.
I see you have partially answered the question here with: "Save when the life of the mother is in danger."
So the life of the mother is more important than the life of the fetus?
How exactly do you come to that conclusion?

 

[!Fluffy!]

To be honest I am tired of abortion threads, sorry to burst your bubble, but I feel like it is an epidemic or something.

amen.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

amen.

Stole the words from right out of my mouth, too. I can't quite understand 'thread epidemics' and why they occur.