Irony: Why do people believe in God? Evolution!

[Faint]

I found this article today, and also found it interesting:
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,9865,1591084,00.html
It's rather long, so here are some of the main points:

It is possible that strong levels of belief in God, gods, spirits or the supernatural might have given our ancestors considerable comforts and advantages. Many anthropologists and social theorists do indeed take the view that religion emerged out of a sense of uncertainty and bewilderment - explaining misfortune or illness, for example, as the consequences of an angry God, or reassuring us that we live on after death. Rituals would have given us a comforting, albeit illusory, sense that we can control what is in fact ultimately beyond our control - the weather, illness, attacks by predators or other human groups.

The communal nature of religion certainly would have given groups of hunter-gatherers a stronger sense of togetherness. This produced a leaner, meaner survival machine, a group that was more likely to be able to defend a waterhole, or kill more antelope, or capture their opponents' daughters. The better the religion was at producing an organised and disciplined group, the more effective they would have been at staying alive, and hence at passing their genes on to the next generation.

But this is not the whole story. Although religion might be useful in developing a solid moral framework - and enforcing it - we can quite easily develop moral intuitions without relying on religion. Psychologist Eliot Turiel observed that even three- and four-year-olds could distinguish between moral rules (for example, not hitting someone) and conventional rules (such as not talking when the teacher is talking)...This would suggest that there is a sort of "morality module" in the brain that is activated at an early age.

So religion does not seem to be produced by a specific part of our psychological make-up. Is it more likely, then, that religious ideas are something of an accidental by-product created by other parts of our basic blueprint, by processes deep in the unconscious mind that evolved to help us survive?

Seems to me that our genes created God, and not vice versa.

 

[michel]

I can see that, from the atheist perspective that is totally feasible, if not virtually 'obvious'. The trouble is there is a God; but, hey , if you prefer the Godless version, who am I to tell you any different ? - I certainly have no way of proving it to you.........

 

[Fatmop]

The trouble is there is a God; but, hey , if you prefer the Godless version, who am I to tell you any different ? - I certainly have no way of proving it to you.....

Do you actually have an argument?

 

[michel]

Do you actually have an argument?

Why should I argue ? Faint is obviously happy with his belief, I am with mine. I accept his sounds correct from a non believer's stance........

Why should I 'rock his boat' ?

 

[Scott1]

Yes, Michel, I agree.... interesting story though.

This would suggest that there is a sort of "morality module" in the brain that is activated at an early age.

God given conscience<----------->morality module

You say potato....

Seems to me that our genes created God, and not vice versa.

Quite a leap, but I'm glad you are happy with it.

 

[hewwa]

hi,everyone
i would explain you the evidance, of allah(god) existance logically and from the quran the holy book of a muslim(muslim is a person who practices islam)
am a muslim

lets think logically, consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot. After his investigations, this archaeologist can tell us, from this little old piece of dusty clay, so much about the civilisation that existed thousands of years ago that produced it; he can tell us about the types of ovens, temperatues, and dyes that they worked with, the raw materials that they used, and thus assess the level of their artistic skill and technological ability. All this from a small piece of clay lying in the desert.



[font=Arial,Helvetica]Did this archaeologist ever see the civilisation that produced this pot ?[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]How does he know that it ever existed ?[/font]
He knows because he saw that the piece of clay was produced by someone who designed it, and shaped it, and had the intelligence to be able to heat it and produce the pot, and not only that, they also had the ability to colour it and make it look beautiful.

To the archaeologist the existence and intricacy of the piece of pottery is conclusive proof of the existence, intelligence and ability of the people who made it.



[font=Arial,Helvetica]To the archaeologist the existence and intricacy of the piece of pottery is conclusive proof of the existence, intelligence and ability of the people who made it.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Look around you: at the beautiful sunset on a summer evening, at the moon and the stars on a cloudless night, at the water that you drink, at the trees and how they grow from tiny seeds. [/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Think about yourself: your eyes with which you see, your ears with which you hear, your tongues with which you taste and talk, your hands and your feet, your heart and your brain. [/font][font=Arial,Helvetica]Consider how these things are so complex in themselves and yet work together in such perfect harmony.[/font]



[font=Arial,Helvetica]From the movement of the galaxies to the complexities of the interaction of molecules, from the dynamics of eco-systems to the intricacies of DNA, all lead to the obvious fact of the existence of the great Wisdom, Knowledge and Power that allows our Universe to exist and function.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]To any perceptive person the existence and intricacy of creation is conclusive proof of the Existence, Knowledge and Wisdom of the One who creates, organises and sustains it. [/font]



[font=Arial,Helvetica]Most people naturally recognise the existence of the Creator, and we find reference to the Creator in all cultures and religions. Even the atheists, communists and (disbelieving) scientists cannot avoid this reality, but avoid the term 'creator', for phrases like 'Mother Nature' and 'the amazing way nature has designed...'[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]How strange in the face of this, that many today reject the belief in the existence of the Creator. Perhaps this is due more to fashion and the desire to justify a materialistic attitude to life rather than real observation and comprehension of reality.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Something stranger still, and perhaps another reason for the trend to deny the Creator, are those who claim that a man, or men, who walked on the earth, breathed air, who had bodies and souls subject to the Laws of the Universe, are the Creator, or manifestations of the Self-Subsistent One. [/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]This is of course a complete contradiction in terms. Something cannot be the Creator and created at the same time, needing air, food and drink and being self-sufficient, being temporary and eternal![/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]If you are one of those who believe that a man such as Buddha, or Krishna, or Jesus is the Creator and Controller, then think again.[/font]



[font=Arial,Helvetica]We were created from a drop of despised fluid, in which was a microscopic sperm, which in turn fertilised a microscopic egg and we grew in our mother's womb in stages predetermined, over which we had no control. We came from our mother's womb, urinating and defecating, needing constant attention and care. Without food we will die, without air we will die ... and then such a one is God?[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Indeed any intelligent person would recognise exactly how dependant life, the universe and everything is on its Creator. Our dire need for His help makes itself plain in times of great distress.[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Imagine yourself in an aeroplane and you know it is going to crash...[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Who do you turn to for help then ?[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Or on a ship in the sea, thrown helplessly up and down by towering waves ...[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]There will have been a situation at one time or the other in your life when you called upon your Creator alone, forgetting everyone and everything else, hoping, trusting, wishing that the Being you know in your heart and soul that has power and control over all things would help you. The only One you know can save you![/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]O creature of God, contemplate upon these verses:[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]" Behold! In the creation of the Heavens and the Earth; In the alternation of the night[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]and day; In the sailing of the ships through the Oceans for the profit of mankind; In the[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]rain which God sends down from the skies, and the life that He therewith to an earth that[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]is dead; In the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the Earth; In the change of the[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth -[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Indeed these are signs for a people that are wise."[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 2:164][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"It is He who has made the sun a shining glory and the moon a light of beauty and has[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]measured out their stages, that you might know the number of years and their reckoning.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Allah did not create this but in Truth. He explains His signs in detail for people who[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]understand.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 10:5][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"He has created the heavens and the earth with Truth. Far is He above having the[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]partners that they ascribe to him.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]He has created mankind from a sperm drop; and behold this (same) man becomes an[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]open disputer! And the cattle, He has created them for you; in them is warmth (warm[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]clothing) and numerous benefits, and of them you eat."[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 16:3-5][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"Blessed be He who sent down the Criterion to His servant that it may be an admonition[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]to all creatures.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; no son has he begotten, nor[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]has He any partner in His dominion; It is He who created all things and gave them their[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]due proportions.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Yet they have taken besides Him gods that can create nothing but are themselves[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor do they control life nor[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]death nor Resurrection."[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 25:1-3][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"Were they created by nothing or did they create themselves?[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Or did they create the heavens and the earth ? No, they have no firm belief."[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 52:36][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]"He it is who enables you to travel through land and sea, until, when you are in the ships[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]and they sail with a favourable wind and you are glad about that.[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]Then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to you from all sides and when you think[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica]that you are encircled by them, you call upon God making your faith pure for Him alone[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]saying :'If You deliver us from this we shall truly be grateful.'[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]But when He delivers you, behold! you rebel in the earth wrongfully. O mankind, your[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]rebellion against God is only against your own selves - a brief enjoyment of this wordly[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]life, then in the end unto Us is your return We shall inform you of that which you used to[/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica]do."[/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][The Qur'aan 10:22-23][/font]

 

[hewwa]

evolution:
Until the mid-20th century, the prevalent view across the world was that the universe was infinite, had existed forever and that it will continue to do so for all time. According to this view, known as the "static universe model," the universe had no end or beginning.
In maintaining that the universe is a collection of fixed, static and unchanging substances, this view has constituted the basis of materialist philosophy and has consequently rejected the existence of a Creator. However, as science and technology progressed during the 20th century, the static universe model has been completely uprooted.

We have now entered the 21st century and a new dawn is upon us. Through numerous experiments, observations and calculation conducted by some of the world's most prominent thinkers, modern physics has proven that the universe did indeed have a beginning, that it came into being from nothing in a single moment in a huge explosion. Furthermore, it has been established that the universe is not fixed and static, as materialists still stubbornly maintain. On the contrary, it is undergoing a constant process of movement, change and expansion. These recently-established facts all act as nails in the coffin of the static universe theory. Today, all these facts are universally accepted by the scientific community.

The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. (Qur'an, 6:101)





​

This information is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary scientists. As we stated earlier, the conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred a long time ago. This event, known as "The Big Bang," is the catalyst for the creation of the universe from nothingness. This explosion, all parties in the scientific community agree, emanated from a single point some 15 billion years ago. (See Harun Yahya, The Creation of the Universe, Al-Attique Publishers Inc. Canada, 2000)





Before the Big Bang, there was no such thing as matter. From a condition of non-existence in which neither matter, nor energy, nor even time existed-and which can only be described metaphysically-matter, energy, and time were all created in an instant. This fact, only recently discovered by modern physics, was announced to us in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

 

[Scott1]

Ummmm... thanks hewwa.

Welcome to RF.com!

 

[michel]

hi hewwa.
Welcome to the forum!

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Thanks for the thread Faint. I have said for years that there have been
different religions throughtout human history because primitive humans
need religion to help them explain the parts of their natural world they
could not comprehend.

There was a time long before the time of Christianity or Islam in which
the populace truly beleived that thunder was caused by Zeuss tossing
these bolts down by hand. Where are the silly people who beleived in
such an obvious, silly superstition?

They all died out many years ago and have been replaced by people who by
and large believe in different superstitions. During the height of the
Egyptian Pharoes the vast majority of the known world worshipped the sun
god - Ra. These people were absolutely, positively certain that Ra existed
and that he was all knowing and all powerful. Where are those folks now?

Lots of different civilizations in the history of humanity. Lots of different
religions during that time. Vast majority of the religions that have ever
existed on this planet died out when the people who beleived in them died
out. Lots and lots of them predate Islam and Christianity by thousands of
years.

How can you, with any degree of intillectual honesty, say that your religion
has any better chance of being "the one" than the Aztecs, the Mayans the
Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, etc. etc. ad infinitum?

Weak minded, or primitive people have always felt a need to have the
unexplained parts of their world, explained to them in a simple way to
make them feel comforted. Stronger minded and more sophisticated
peoples have the same yearnings and need for knowledge, but are more
interested in looking into the truth of such matters. These folks didn't just
look into the sky, wondering what the stars were, and just coming to the
conclusion that "wow, I don't understand what that is, therefore some god
must have made it" as was the common misunderstanding in the time of
Copernicus. The bright, and strong minded built a telescope and found out
for themselves what those funny lights were.

At one time people beleived that diseases were caused by spirits. Weak minded
people who beleived all that they were told on "faith" continued in this
deluded belief. Thankfully some smart, freethinking individuals came
up with wonderful devices such as microscopes, so that we could find that
diseases are often caused by tiny little organisms such as germs, bacterea,
and viruses. Anyone rather go to a faith healer than a Doctor?

The most logical explanation is that which was laid out by Faint. If you look
at the questions logically, it is difficult to intellectually come up with a cosmic
boogeyman, tho it is easy to understand how primitive peoples would have
fabricated a cosmic boogeyman to help them explain natural phenomenon they
could not understand.

B.

 

[hewwa]

“How can you disbelieve in Allaah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.”

[al-Baqarah 2:28]

“… whosoever disbelieves in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away…

Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, ‘We believe in some but not in others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between,

They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:136, 150-151]

O disbeliever, do you think that you can do any harm to Allaah by your disbelief? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But if you disbelieve, then unto Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allaah is Ever Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all praise.” [al-Nisa’ 4:131]

You will only increase in hatefulness and loss in the sight of Allaah, you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the worst of moving (living) creatures before Allaah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.”

[al-Anfaal 8:55]

O disbeliever, are you not going to die? Or do you doubt that as well? Do you know what your position will be when you die, if you die in a state of disbelief? Listen:

“And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelief (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): ‘Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire.’”

[al-Anfaal 8:50]

O disbeliever, woe to you from what will happen to you on the Day of Resurrection! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… so woe to the disbelievers from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).”

[Maryam 19:37]

We have an appointment with you after death, on the Day of Reckoning:

“On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allaah.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:42]

O disbeliever, do you know what Allaah has prepared for you if you die in a state of disbelief? Read:

“And whosoever does not believe in Allaah and His Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.”

[al-Fath 48:13]

“Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allaah and of the angels and mankind, combined.”

[al-Baqarah 2:161]

“Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from any one of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:91]

“Surely, those who reject Faith, neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allaah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:116]

Do you know what you will have to drink in Hell if you die as a disbeliever? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve.”

[Yoonus 10:5]

Do you know what you will have to wear on that Day? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.”

[al-Hajj 22:19]

Do you know what kind of punishment you will endure?

“Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allaah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:56]

“If only those who disbelieved knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the Fire from their faces, nor from their backs; and they will not be helped.”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:39]

O reviler, maybe on the Day of Judgement you will wish that you had been a Muslim in this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Perhaps (often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims.”

[al-Hijr 15:2]

O disbeliever, you are among those who have disbelieved and done wrong. Allaah says concerning you and your like (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily those who disbelieve and do wrong, Allaah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way”

[al-Nisa’ 4:168]

“Those who disbelieve and deny our signs are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:10]

There you will have no life, but neither will you be able to find any respite in death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”

[Faatir 35:36]

O disbeliever, have the glad tidings of a punishment from which you will not be able to ransom yourself:

“Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:36]

O disbeliever, if you want to mock Islam and its followers, this is nothing new:

“Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allaah’s Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah gives (of His bounty on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.”

[al-Baqarah 2:212]

O disbeliever, if you think that the light of Islam will be extinguished, then you are living in a world of illusions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate (it).”

[al-Tawbah 9:32]

O disbeliever, do you know that you are cursed if you do not submit to Allaah, so save yourself from this curse:

“Verily, Allaah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell).”

[al-Ahzaab 33:64]

There is still time for you to repent from sin and transgression, so long as you are still alive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).”

[al-Anfaal 8:38]

Whoever is guided, then it is for his own benefit, and whoever disbelieves, then Allaah has no need of His creation. The curse of Allaah be upon the disbelievers.

 

[hewwa]

with quotes from the Word of God (the Qur’aan), if you even believe in the existence of God.

O disbeliever, we debate with you in the words addressed by Allaah (the Arabic name of the One True God) to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the disbelievers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:171]

“Say: O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do you criticize us for no other reason than that we believe in Allaah, and in (the revelation) which has been sent down before (us), and that most of you are faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient [to Allaah])?”

[al-Maa’idah 5:59]

“How can you disbelieve in Allaah? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.”

[al-Baqarah 2:28]

“… whosoever disbelieves in Allaah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, then indeed he has strayed far away…

Verily, those who disbelieve in Allaah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allaah and His Messengers (by believing in Allaah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, ‘We believe in some but not in others,’ and wish to adopt a way in between,

They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:136, 150-151]

O disbeliever, do you think that you can do any harm to Allaah by your disbelief? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But if you disbelieve, then unto Allaah belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allaah is Ever Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all praise.” [al-Nisa’ 4:131]

You will only increase in hatefulness and loss in the sight of Allaah, you disbeliever, for you are one of the worst of living creatures, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, the worst of moving (living) creatures before Allaah are those who disbelieve, - so they shall not believe.”

[al-Anfaal 8:55]

O disbeliever, are you not going to die? Or do you doubt that as well? Do you know what your position will be when you die, if you die in a state of disbelief? Listen:

“And if you could see when the angels take away the souls of those who disbelief (at death), they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): ‘Taste the punishment of the blazing Fire.’”

[al-Anfaal 8:50]

O disbeliever, woe to you from what will happen to you on the Day of Resurrection! Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… so woe to the disbelievers from the meeting of a great Day (i.e., the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).”

[Maryam 19:37]

We have an appointment with you after death, on the Day of Reckoning:

“On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] will wish that they were buried in the earth, but they will never be able to hide a single fact from Allaah.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:42]

O disbeliever, do you know what Allaah has prepared for you if you die in a state of disbelief? Read:

“And whosoever does not believe in Allaah and His Messenger [Muhammad SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.”

[al-Fath 48:13]

“Verily, those who disbelieve, and die while they are disbelievers, it is they on whom is the Curse of Allaah and of the angels and mankind, combined.”

[al-Baqarah 2:161]

“Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from any one of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:91]

“Surely, those who reject Faith, neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allaah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:116]

Do you know what you will have to drink in Hell if you die as a disbeliever? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… But those who disbelieved will have a drink of boiling fluids and painful torment because they used to disbelieve.”

[Yoonus 10:5]

Do you know what you will have to wear on that Day? Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… Then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.”

[al-Hajj 22:19]

Do you know what kind of punishment you will endure?

“Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Signs, We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment. Truly, Allaah is Ever Most Powerful, All-Wise.”

[al-Nisa’ 4:56]

“If only those who disbelieved knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the Fire from their faces, nor from their backs; and they will not be helped.”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:39]

O reviler, maybe on the Day of Judgement you will wish that you had been a Muslim in this world. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Perhaps (often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims.”

[al-Hijr 15:2]

O disbeliever, you are among those who have disbelieved and done wrong. Allaah says concerning you and your like (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily those who disbelieve and do wrong, Allaah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way”

[al-Nisa’ 4:168]

“Those who disbelieve and deny our signs are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell-fire.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:10]

There you will have no life, but neither will you be able to find any respite in death. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But those who disbelieve, for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!”

[Faatir 35:36]

O disbeliever, have the glad tidings of a punishment from which you will not be able to ransom yourself:

“Verily, those who disbelieve, if they had all that is in the earth, and as much again therewith to ransom themselves thereby from the torment on the Day of Resurrection, it would never be accepted of them, and theirs would be a painful torment.”

[al-Maa’idah 5:36]

O disbeliever, if you want to mock Islam and its followers, this is nothing new:

“Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allaah’s Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allaah gives (of His bounty on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.”

[al-Baqarah 2:212]

O disbeliever, if you think that the light of Islam will be extinguished, then you are living in a world of illusions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate (it).”

[al-Tawbah 9:32]

O disbeliever, do you know that you are cursed if you do not submit to Allaah, so save yourself from this curse:

“Verily, Allaah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire (Hell).”

[al-Ahzaab 33:64]

There is still time for you to repent from sin and transgression, so long as you are still alive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).”

[al-Anfaal 8:38]

Whoever is guided, then it is for his own benefit, and whoever disbelieves, then Allaah has no need of His creation. The curse of Allaah be upon the disbelievers.

 

[Faint]

lets think logically, consider this : An archaeologist digs deep into the desert sand and finds a piece of an old clay pot....

Yeah yeah, I've heard the 'watchmaker' argument before. But riddle me this, by assuming that the complexity of the universe shows it has to be design, you also imply that this proves the existence of an even more complex entity (God). Now, if the universe has to be created because it is complex, that means that an even more complex deity will have to be the product of an even more powerful meta-god. This train of thought has no logical merit. Also, arguments "by design" tend to ignore the great apparatus of explanation that modern science has provided. The theory of evolution by natural selection provides a powerful explanation of the complexities in life. While some theists reject it, it is simply not honest to pretend it does not exist, as your argument does.

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Most people naturally recognise the existence of the Creator, and we find reference to the Creator in all cultures and religions. [/font]

The article I provided addresses why religion is so common. But just because "most people" believe something doesn't make it true. Argumentum ad populum anyone?

[font=Arial,Helvetica]How strange in the face of this, that many today reject the belief in the existence of the Creator. Perhaps this is due more to fashion and the desire to justify a materialistic attitude to life rather than real observation and comprehension of reality.[/font]

Funny for someone so enthralled by a meme-complex about the supernatural to accuse another of lacking "comprehension of reality".

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Imagine yourself in an aeroplane and you know it is going to crash...[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]Who do you turn to for help then ?[/font]

I turn to the cute stewardess so she can help me wake up the pilot. If that fails, I turn to whoever's opening the escape door so I can jump to safety in my parachute. If there is no escape whatsoever, I turn back to the cute stewardess to spend my last moments with a beautiful woman. One thing I would have no time for in a crash is god. That whole "there has never been an atheist in a foxhole" attitude is preposterous.

But thanks for taking the time to type so much, and welcome.

 

[Scott1]

I turn back to the cute stewardess to spend my last moments with a beautiful woman. One thing I would have no time for in a crash is god. That whole "there has never been an atheist in a foxhole" attitude is preposterous.

Amen brother!..... ok,ok... I would say a quick prayer first.......but it would be a quick one.

 

[Darkdale]

I'm really getting sick and tired of all this Islamic proselytizing, but I'm very impressed with Faint's response. Keep up the good work.

For me, religion is a matter of culture and worldview. It's the best worldview I've found. I suspect that the same is true for everyone else too. Some folk like the Muslim worldview, others the Christian ones, others the some various pagan paradigms or heathen. We find a system that we like, that expresses our own emotional experience.

 

[Fatmop]

Yeah yeah, I've heard the 'watchmaker' argument before. But riddle me this, by assuming that the complexity of the universe shows it has to be design, you also imply that this proves the existence of an even more complex entity (God). Now, if the universe has to be created because it is complex, that means that an even more complex deity will have to be the product of an even more powerful meta-god. This train of thought has no logical merit. Also, arguments "by design" tend to ignore the great apparatus of explanation that modern science has provided. The theory of evolution by natural selection provides a powerful explanation of the complexities in life. While some theists reject it, it is simply not honest to pretend it does not exist, as your argument does.

Next time the watchmaker or archaeology argument pops up, consider heading to talk origins. There's a quick, easy answer available:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI191.html

 

[Murf661]

I myself am a firm beliver in the Man created god, Not the other way round view. I believe that God is there to help man to feel safe, secure, and loved, the bible is just a giant contradiction. Many parts of it just contradict one an other.

It may also be that I enjoy science and don't believe in Jiggery-Pokery and Majic mumbo-jumbo...I mean feading the 5,000 with bread and fish...C'mon As if that's ever going to happen..

Im sorry but evolution is how we cam to being, not by being created by god...We were single celled orgaisms once, Not adam and eve.

 

[Ernesto]

I can see that, from the atheist perspective that is totally feasible, if not virtually 'obvious'. The trouble is there is a God; but, hey , if you prefer the Godless version, who am I to tell you any different ? - I certainly have no way of proving it to you.........

Exactly.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Seems to me that our genes created God, and not vice versa.

In all fairness, it should be noted that this is a false dilemma. That we have a predisposition to create theistic narratives is not an argument against Deity. It simply suggests that religions would exist whether or not there is a God.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

In all fairness, it should be noted that this is a false dilemma. That we have a predisposition to create theistic narratives is not an argument against Deity. It simply suggests that religions would exist whether or not there is a God.

A very intruiging point.