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Into the Flow

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Taoism celebrates the notion of self-transcending skill. This is when highly honed skills reach a stage where we lose ourselves and "become one with" the world in which we act. During such states of engagement, we don't really think about all the rules we learned as students. We are seemingly "pulled" by the activity, rather than deliberating as a person normally would, and an unique mindlessness takes over. The most frequent mystical talk in the Zhuangzi is about skill and flow. We are able to attain this absorption in performance of any activity. It could be playing music, dancing, hiking, cooking, using language, programming computers, skating, giving a speech, constructing a logical argument, lovemaking, etc. At the highest levels of skill, we seem to transcend our own self-consciousness. Our control over our actions begins to feel like it's coming from the natural order of things instead.

Zhuangzi is consistent with Aristotle in their observation that human life offers no more fulfilling an activity than the exercise of some acquired skill. In "walking a tao" (performing it), we seem to experience a unity of actor and action. The accuracy and efficiency of our own actions mystifies us and we certainly cannot explain it to others. This practice is a way of losing oneself (or is it finding oneself?) much as one might in meditation, contemplation, or even trance. Any person that thinks the notion of "following the Tao" alien or confusing is likely to be quite comfortable with the feeling of purposeful union that arises from skillful action. They are one and the same, however.

Many Westerners are inclined to view skill in terms of cleverness, cultivated dexterity, the manipulation of facts, aptitudes, and/or various tricks of the trade.
The Taoist point of view has more to do with openness to the total context of action and it emphasizes spotting clues to the ways in which the present situation is different from all others that one has previously performed said skill in. Spontaneity and authenticity are paramount when it comes to cultivating skill. Again and again, we are guided back to the notion of remaining open to the influence of something vast that is already unfolding on its own accord.

Every situation provides an opportunity for some kind of harmonious interaction with the Tao. When one has mastered the ultimate skill of living itself, there ceases to be any worrying or confusion about whether or not one has the "proper" skill. One simply responds authentically at all times as skill expresses itself effortlessly and appropriately. Each and every moment asks for some kind of response from us, even if we have no formal response with only ourselves to offer. The real question is not whether we have mastered all possible contingencies to all possible situations, but whether we are wasting our time worrying about whether we have control over any given moment. A better way is simply to do what we are naturally inspired to do, with a flexible mind, in real time over and over again. Sages emerge from this daily commitment.

Taoism's eccentric portrayal of skill is balanced by an awareness that there is no perfection without defect. Flow should never be confused with cosmic enlightenment. No matter how much we hone our skills, we always come to hard places where we must focus and adapt new information before returning to flow. Any mastery, Zhuangzi notes, must leave something out. To master any skill means to ignore other skills as this practice may involve a loss of balance. Zhuangzi also remarks that masters are frequently not very good teachers. They often fail to transmit their mastery to their students.

So... Got flow?

What are some skills and activities that put you "in the zone"? Can you describe the experience of engagement?
 
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Oregon Alley Cat

happy humanist
Thanks for posting this. I have a few questions for you, if I may.

First, you mention that in Taoism that when we become one with the world that we gain a "unique mindlessness", and that this could be experienced in activities such as constructing a logical argument. Could you perhaps flesh this out a bit, since achieving a state of "mindlessness" does not seem at first glance to jive with "logical argument".

Second, could you further define what you mean by viewing skill as "openness to the total context of action"? Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by this.

Third, you seem to be saying that practicing skill is to focus on one skill and ignore all others and that this brings balance. Is that fair to say? It has been my understanding that we should have atleast a decent grounding in a wide variety of skills and this is what it means to be balanced, to have a working knowledge of a wide variety of topics. I guess I have trouble seeing how one can be balanced by focusing on one skill to the exclusion of others?

Thanks in advance for any response you can offer.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
So... Got flow?

What are some skills and activities that put you "in the zone"? Can you describe the experience of engagement?
Piano. I get totally absorbed while playing piano, and I'll get in the done quite easily normally. Kinda funny though, I was thinking about it tonight actually, because the zone just didn't happen for me. I feel like maybe it was partly because I didn't begin with the tune I normally begin with.

Another thing that i've totally zoned with in the past it's video games. I used to play a lot of world of warcraft, where I'd be playing with up to 39 other people, all of us trying to kill a boss, each taking on specific roles and responsibilities. I would totally zone in on these fights doing my tasks (keeping everyone alive while dodging fires etc) almost seamlessly.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Hey Alley Cat,

First, you mention that in Taoism that when we become one with the world that we gain a "unique mindlessness", and that this could be experienced in activities such as constructing a logical argument. Could you perhaps flesh this out a bit, since achieving a state of "mindlessness" does not seem at first glance to jive with "logical argument".

Certainly. I only meant mindlessness in the sense that there is no longer awareness of the self/activity division. The bridge is skill and the experience is flow. Even in the case of constructing a logical argument, one might lose themselves in the particular thought patterns involved. They "become" what they are thinking.

Second, could you further define what you mean by viewing skill as "openness to the total context of action"? Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean by this.

Good question. As people age, we tend to collect practical wisdom. Unfortunately, this is often used as an excuse to "shut down" mentally or spiritually to new experience. Zhuangzi advocates a kind of youthful clarity and flexibility that informs and supports the practical experience of age.

Have we really reached our deepest capacities when we assure ourselves that we know what we're doing? Or is there an even more authentic level of action rooted in openness to the situation? Perhaps a few quotes would help:

"In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind, there are few." -Shunryu Suzuki

"Unless you start again, become that trusting, open, surrendered being, the energy can't come in. That is the kingdom of heaven... Purify enough. Become; immense. Beauty! Become it. The potter becomes his pot. Embrace the 10,000 beautiful visions. Become one with the universe, and all the energy passes through you. You are all the energy... There is a task to do. You are the task." -Ram Dass, Be Here Now

Third, you seem to be saying that practicing skill is to focus on one skill and ignore all others and that this brings balance. Is that fair to say? It has been my understanding that we should have atleast a decent grounding in a wide variety of skills and this is what it means to be balanced, to have a working knowledge of a wide variety of topics. I guess I have trouble seeing how one can be balanced by focusing on one skill to the exclusion of others?

It's impossible to master any skill without focusing on it to the exclusion of others. I don't mean to say that each person can't possess a number of skills, but just that they can't master the vast majority of possible skills out there. Seeking mastery in all skill sets leads to mediocrity across the board. Sure, it's smart to learn most basic living skills, but we can never hope to master all possible skills and knowledge. We find balance by pursuing those talents and skills that we're naturally inspired by and every individual is different.
 
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Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Piano. I get totally absorbed while playing piano, and I'll get in the done quite easily normally. Kinda funny though, I was thinking about it tonight actually, because the zone just didn't happen for me. I feel like maybe it was partly because I didn't begin with the tune I normally begin with.

Interesting. How long had you been practicing the piano before you starting experiencing flow?

Another thing that i've totally zoned with in the past it's video games. I used to play a lot of world of warcraft, where I'd be playing with up to 39 other people, all of us trying to kill a boss, each taking on specific roles and responsibilities. I would totally zone in on these fights doing my tasks (keeping everyone alive while dodging fires etc) almost seamlessly.

This is also a big one for me. I usually play RPGs or puzzle games. For all the badmouthing about video games going on, there's very little paid attention to how they can contribute to well-being when played wisely. I don't know if the same can be said about TV shows, which might explain why I don't have cable.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
Interesting. How long had you been practicing the piano before you starting experiencing flow?
Haha good question! I'm 26 now, and I've been playing since I was 7, so some time between then and now! :pt


This is also a big one for me. I usually play RPGs or puzzle games. For all the badmouthing about video games going on, there's very little paid attention to how they can contribute to well-being when played wisely. I don't know if the same can be said about TV shows, which might explain why I don't have cable.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of gaming being used in a way that can benefit you. For example one of the latest Android phone apps called Run Zombies! makes you physically run, and collect bonuses, and when you finish, you use those bonuses to fortify and arm your base against zombies
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm a big fan of gaming being used in a way that can benefit you. For example one of the latest Android phone apps called Run Zombies! makes you physically run, and collect bonuses, and when you finish, you use those bonuses to fortify and arm your base against zombies

Sounds fun. Also, it'll help you when the real zombie apocalypse starts. :D

I prefer games to both TV and movies. It's partly because I don't experience flow with the latter. Gaming is interactive and challenges the brain to respond rather than passively observe.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I'm thinking there is quite a connection between Taoist flow and Buddhist thusness/Tathatā and mindfulness.

Any thoughts about this?
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
8:14pm, I posted on the forum. I then went straight to the piano, closed my eyes and started playing. When I stopped and opened my eyesI was surprised to see it was already 9:45!
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking there is quite a connection between Taoist flow and Buddhist thusness/Tathatā and mindfulness.

Any thoughts about this?

Perhaps. One does get the sense that flow experience is how things really are in the moment. Does the interpretation that this is the "true nature of reality" happen after the fact or simultaneously with the experience of engagement?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Perhaps. One does get the sense that flow experience is how things really are in the moment. Does the interpretation that this is the "true nature of reality" happen after the fact or simultaneously with the experience of engagement?
I'm thinking that the concept of true nature of reality doesn't need to enter into the mind at the time, since you are participating in it. The recognition of the "altered" state might happen at the time, however.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that the concept of true nature of reality doesn't need to enter into the mind at the time, since you are participating in it. The recognition of the "altered" state might happen at the time, however.


Flow can be a profound altered state, but I'm hesitant to label it as the "true nature of reality" or a "truer mode of experience". Many people will enter flow throughout their life without ever identifying it as a more or less "true" experience.
 
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