Incarnations working miracles

[PoetPhilosopher]

So if someone like Krishna came during our lifetime, and performed some crazy miracles that are impossible... would most Christians see them as a false prophet, also weighing where this incarnation differs from Jesus, and would they quote Revelation 13:13 to try to prove their point as well?

 

[Brian2]

So if someone like Krishna came during our lifetime, and performed some crazy miracles that are impossible... would most Christians see them as a false prophet, also weighing where this incarnation differs from Jesus, and would they quote Revelation 13:13 to try to prove their point as well?

Probably, especially if these people did not fulfil the prophecies concerning the return of Jesus.

 

[stvdv]

So if someone like Krishna came during our lifetime, and performed some crazy miracles that are impossible... would most Christians see them as a false prophet, also weighing where this incarnation differs from Jesus, and would they quote Revelation 13:13 to try to prove their point as well?

It does not say anything IF "most Christians see them as a false prophet", because most Christians have it all wrong.

At least according to the Bible, which clearly claims this:
Matthew 7 Aramaic Bible in Plain English verse 14
"How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it!"

 

[Aupmanyav]

So if someone like Krishna came during our lifetime, and performed some crazy miracles that are impossible... would most Christians see them as a false prophet, also weighing where this incarnation differs from Jesus, and would they quote Revelation 13:13 to try to prove their point as well?

Of course, I do not believe in Gods and incarnations, but all miracles should have unequivocal evidence, for example moving Mt. Everest from Himalayas to Andes.

Probably, especially if these people did not fulfil the prophecies concerning the return of Jesus.

How is Krishna concerned with return of Jesus?

 

[Brickjectivity]

So if someone like Krishna came during our lifetime, and performed some crazy miracles that are impossible... would most Christians see them as a false prophet, also weighing where this incarnation differs from Jesus, and would they quote Revelation 13:13 to try to prove their point as well?

Liturgical Christians probably not. Some protestants, yes maybe at worst might fear the worst. Not all protestants. Also for context Revel 13:9-10 says (bullets inserted)

"Whoever has ears let them hear

• If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go.
• If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword they will be killed.'

This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God's people..."​

I think even if this were not a symbolic and poetic passage and was about a particular person in the future that the context here would not apply to Krishna, unless he started killing people and locking people up. This 2nd beast kills and locks up God's people, which is generally what all of the enemies of the people of God do. Krishna would not be likely to do something like that. Far more likely Krishna would prevent this sort of thing, so even if some people thought he might be the second beast such thoughts would have no basis.

 

[Brian2]

Matthew 7 Aramaic Bible in Plain English verse 14
"How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it!"

As narrow as putting our faith in Jesus.
There are a million other ways that tell us to be good enough and you might make it, to put our faith in someone else or ourselves. That is a wide gate and many go down that road.
What do you think that Matt 7:14 might mean?

How do you do that-----answer 2 people in the one post? and do the 2 people you answer get notifications that you have answered?

 

[Brian2]

How is Krishna concerned with return of Jesus?

I understood the question to be about an anonymous person who comes performing miracles. Krishna has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

[stvdv]

What do you think that Matt 7:14 might mean?

"How narrow is the gate and strict the way that leads to life, and few are those who find it!"
My Master explained it this way:
1) 1 out of 1000 people choose the spiritual path (and let go the worldly path). So they give up worldly desires (so, that's 1 out of thousand)
2) 1 out of 1000 people of above group (1) have the will power to continue the spiritual quest (so, that's 1 out of a million)
3) 1 out of 1000 people of about group (2) reach the goal (so, that's 1 out of 1000 million; 8 people living on earth make it)

How do you do that-----answer 2 people in the one post? and do the 2 people you answer get notifications that you have answered?

If you use "reply" then you get 1 person to which you reply
If you use "quote" (select some text, and then the option "quote" + "reply" appears ... select "quote" if you want multiple people to quote in 1 reply)

Another option is, that you use the "@" sign: @Brian2 + @Revoltingest + @stvdv (now 3 people get notified)

 

[Brian2]

So they give up worldly desires
3) 1 out of 1000 people of about group (2) reach the goal (so, that's 1 out of 1000 billion; 1 out of 8 people living on earth)

Have you given up worldly desires?
Why the discrepancy between 1 out of 1000 and 1 out of 8 people living on earth?

If you use "reply" then you get 1 person to which you reply
If you use "quote" (select some text, and then the option "quote" + "reply" appears ... select "quote" if you want multiple people to quote in 1 reply)

Another option is, that you use the "@" sign: @Brian2 + @Revoltingest + @stvdv (now 3 people get notified)

Hmmm, I think I'll need to experiment.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Have you given up worldly desires?

Buddqa said that desires are of two kinds. You might want welfare of humanity. That is a good desire. You may yourself want to become as rich as Bill Gates. That will be a base desire. The Buddhist use the word 'Kusal' and 'Akusal'. Sort of valid and invalid, one those which should be followed and others which should not .

 

[Brian2]

Buddqa said that desires are of two kinds. You might want welfare of humanity. That is a good desire. You may yourself want to become as rich as Bill Gates. That will be a base desire. The Buddhist use the word 'Kusal' and 'Akusal'. Sort of valid and invalid, one those which should be followed and others which should not .

I thought that the object in Buddhism is to eliminate desire, even the desire for enlightenment ultimately. So in the end both the Kusal and Akusal are what cause suffering and need to go.
Is that right?

 

[stvdv]

Have you given up worldly desires?

No. That's a difficult step for me. So, I would not even claim, that I started on the spiritual path; I still like chocolate and icecream +++

Why the discrepancy between 1 out of 1000 and 1 out of 8 people living on earth?

Thanks for the correction, I must have been really sleepy.
I made a mistake. It should have been 1000 million instead of 1000 billion.
And it should be "8 people on earth who make it" (many probable "fake it")

Hmmm, I think I'll need to experiment.

I think there is even a third option. If you "follow" someone, then that person's post might pop up more
But I still don't much about "following" someone on RF. I have not yet experimented with "following"

 

[Brian2]

No. That's a difficult step for me. So, I would not even claim, that I started on the spiritual path; I still like chocolate and icecream +++

Yum

Thanks for the correction, I must have been really sleepy.
I made a mistake. It should have been 1000 million instead of 1000 billion.
And it should be "8 people on earth who make it" (many probable "fake it")

I guess that in the end they would be only fooling themselves.

I think there is even a third option. If you "follow" someone, then that person's post might pop up more
But I still don't much about "following" someone on RF. I have not yet experimented with "following"

Sounds like stalking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but who said that was wrong anyway?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I thought that the object in Buddhism is to eliminate desire, even the desire for enlightenment ultimately. So in the end both the Kusal and Akusal are what cause suffering and need to go. Is that right?

As far as I understand Buddha, 'kusal' should be desired. Buddha himself desired to turn the wheel of dharma instead of instant 'nirvana' which was available. It is the 'akusal' which one has to abandon. For enlightenment follow the noble-Eight-fold path. I am not a Buddhist but I consider Buddha as one of my gurus, so I may be excused if my reading is not correct.

Krishna too did not want inaction. He endorsed action to fulfill dharma. That is a 'kusal' desire, even if it entails lots of difficulties.
"Do thou fight for the sake of fighting, without considering happiness or distress, loss or gain, victory or defeat – and by so doing you shall never incur sin." BG 2.38
"You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty." BG 2.47
"Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment to success or failure. Such equanimity is called yoga." BG 2.48

So, the message from Buddha and Krishna is the same. Act, do not be inactive, do what is necessary and righteous in a particular situation, whatever may be the difficulties in performing your duty, and do not think of returns. That you have performed your duty is a reward enough.

Have you given up worldly desires?
Why the discrepancy between 1 out of 1000 and 1 out of 8 people living on earth?

There is no discrepancy. So it will be just 8 people out of the (nearly) eight billion people on earth. He was, as he said sleepy at that time. However, my view is that there are more than eight such people because the sky is not falling.

 

[stvdv]

Krishna too did not want inaction

Except "inaction of the mind". But as many have a hard time with this, we can conclude that almost nobody is doing "total inaction"

 

[stvdv]

Yum

It is comforting, that I am not alone, with chocolate and icecream desires.

I guess that in the end they would be only fooling themselves.

True. And it is amazing, how easy one can fool oneself, even if all others easily see we fool ourselves. Blind spots in ourselves.

Sounds like stalking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but who said that was wrong anyway?

On RF this kind of following ("Stalking") is okay.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Krishna clearly said - 'Don't be enamored of inaction' (mā te saṅgah tu akarmaṇi).*
mā - never; te - of you; saṅgaḥ - attachment; astu - there should be; akarmaṇi - in not doing your duties. Bg. 2.47
What he did not want was 'attachment' (Āsakti) to what one is doing.
(- 'I am doing this because it will benefit me or mine'. No. 'I am doing this because this is the righteous action at this moment')

* Well, Krishna says or Hindu wisdom says. They are one and the same. So, an athiest also can follow Krishna to some extent (till things remain secular).

Except "inaction of the mind". But as many have a hard time with this, we can conclude that almost nobody is doing "total inaction"

Mind will always be active. Just wean it away from bad thoughts to good thoughts.

 

[Brian2]

On RF this kind of following ("Stalking") is okay.

I'm not sure what that sort of following is.

 

[stvdv]

I'm not sure what that sort of following is.

Neither am I. I once pressed the button "follow" on 1 guy, to find out what it meant.
Next day he left the forum. So, I didn't find out yet.

But if you really want to know, you ask someone who has many followers on RF
They should be able to tell you all about it.

Or you start a new OP, asking for details about following on RF.

 

[Brian2]

As far as I understand Buddha, 'kusal' should be desired. Buddha himself desired to turn the wheel of dharma instead of instant 'nirvana' which was available. It is the 'akusal' which one has to abandon. For enlightenment follow the noble-Eight-fold path. I am not a Buddhist but I consider Buddha as one of my gurus, so I may be excused if my reading is not correct.

Certainly better than trying to extinguish all desire.
In Christianity we also want to abandon the "akusal" if that is similar to the carnal desires which fight against and are enemies of the desires of God for our lives. In Christianity the motivation in doing this should not be to attain eternal life because that is a gift which we cannot earn by our actions.