If you dress Christianity in black, does it become Left Hand Path?

[Bhairava]

You remind me of this guy who used to come on the forum here a lot. However, the LHP is not about doing things that are socially unacceptable, I find that to be an insultingly ignorant point of view.

According to the original ancient LHP it is. I follow the ancient LHP out of India Kapalika Shaivism more common term a guess would be Aghori but they too are under the category Kapalika. Their practices are considered LHP because they ingest psychedelics and intoxicants, drink out of skulls, have tantric sex and stuff like that. If you look at modern LHP they stole from the ancient LHP. Example Satanism is like a new age version of Kapalika Shaivism; equivalent to how doing stretches is considered Yoga in the West instead of deep practices experiencing union with the divine. I could see that being offensive but its true look into the original LHP out of India and you will see how the Western version is like a rip off that misinterpreted it. Dont believe me? Types of Satanism are into the kundalini and chakras and Kapalika Shaivites are the ones who invented those terms and worship Bhairava the fierce and highest manifestation of god.

 

[crossfire]

Well, welcome back, Bhairava!

 

[Mindmaster]

Don't know, I find the aghori practices very much non-LHP in some cases. If it doesn't morally or mentally challenge them to do these things they do (aka they are routine) then there is nothing LHP about them they are just doing what the other people associated with them expect them to do. If they are just following along because that is what is expected they are technically just doing an inverse right-hand path type thing. It's the negative version of something else, basically... And, thus is defined by that other thing completely rather than being defined by oneself.

LaVey Satanists are basically atheists with a few philosophical tack-ons. They are not LHP in any sense... If anything I feel they are interested in maintaining the status quo as much as possible.

Theistic Satanists are all over the place, so I can only speak for me. I use practices very similar to the approach used in the east, but mostly by accident... I believe Satan is the point of origin for the power which makes us individuals, and that power is the reason we ask, "Why?" Do you need to "believe" in that or can you find that in yourself? I think Satan is very complex and defining such a thing as a anthropomorphic satyr-creature is just convenience. Historically, this force/being, whatever it is, is associated with nearly every culture humans have been involved with. There is always a story of some being handing mankind the knowledge of science, art, and other things. These stories exist really in any culture... We can use many names, but they all point to this same "thing." Generally, we are pointed toward developing to the highest extent possible.. We desire all of the forbidden secrets, and we wish to live as gods as an exhalation and tribute to what this force or "Satan" has given us. Anyway, in my concept of the LHP you aren't really following the path if you are just doing what other people expect you to do. Taking drugs to break the rules, doing silly sex stuff, etc... What are we all teenagers? This stuff isn't good enough -- it's not rebellion it's just acting up. Rebellion is a philosophical tenet that starts with you personally... The rest of the world doesn't matter... If you are expressing your nature completely you are on your way... If you are following someone else's idea of it you are just a scene kid and poser.

 

[Bhairava]

They do them because thats their rituals not cause people expect them to do it. I find those rituals silly myself but thats the difference between an Aghori and a Kapalika. I don't do psychedelics to break the rules, I do them to alter my perception letting me know such states exist and are possible. Doing tantric sex is not even 1% of tantra just like doing stretches (asanas) is not even 1% of yoga. Its not about rebellion doing those substances its like steroids for meditation.

You say not to follow someone else's way but to create your own religion and being the only one that believes that is the definition of insanity. A lot of beliefs are insane and really the definition of insanity is limited but without a proper foundation of spiritual views you would basically become insane practicing deep practices. If I got really deep with a Christian were I could get him to experience the things I have he might end up thinking hes Jesus or his reincarnation. Example if I didn't have a grounding in the non dual Tantras of Trika Saivism which came from the Kapalikas I would think I have lost my mind at times instead of knowing its totally normal and at this stage this happens. Otherwise like everyone else who dares go beyond the ego without a proper foundation Im sure I would be scared and think Im losing my mind.

I guess definition of LHP differs culture to culture.

 

[crossfire]

They do them because thats their rituals not cause people expect them to do it. I find those rituals silly myself but thats the difference between an Aghori and a Kapalika. I don't do psychedelics to break the rules, I do them to alter my perception letting me know such states exist and are possible. Doing tantric sex is not even 1% of tantra just like doing stretches (asanas) is not even 1% of yoga. Its not about rebellion doing those substances its like steroids for meditation.

You say not to follow someone else's way but to create your own religion and being the only one that believes that is the definition of insanity. A lot of beliefs are insane and really the definition of insanity is limited but without a proper foundation of spiritual views you would basically become insane practicing deep practices. If I got really deep with a Christian were I could get him to experience the things I have he might end up thinking hes Jesus or his reincarnation. Example if I didn't have a grounding in the non dual Tantras of Trika Saivism which came from the Kapalikas I would think I have lost my mind at times instead of knowing its totally normal and at this stage this happens. Otherwise like everyone else who dares go beyond the ego without a proper foundation Im sure I would be scared and think Im losing my mind.

I guess definition of LHP differs culture to culture.

I would say the very reason to develop your own path stems from the fact that we all have different psychological hang-ups to overcome and transform. We are looking to optimize our individual minds, not to become like everyone else.

 

[EtuMalku]

This is bothering me to a great extent lately. It seems much if not most of the supposed LHP is wrapped up in religious organizations, placed within a heirarchy, spouting quotes from religious texts, treating the forming members as prophets, etc etc etc. From the CoS to Michael Ford to the ToS and everything in between, every organization out there. So, it again begs the question of what is the Left Hand Path? If we take a Christian church and make them all wear black robes, then change the name "Jesus" to "Set" or "Satan" (get those dark juices flowing), are they now LHP?

Personally I say no.

Your assessment of how an organization (whether a church, cabal, or order) functions is correct and in that respect many western left hand organizations do in fact operate similar to the way RHP organizations do . . . it's the nature of the beast!

To answer your question; "what is the Left Hand Path?"
The RHP seeks to merge one's self / psyche / soul with the objective universe which is
understood as Nature / God / The All / Absolute etc.

The LHP is the conscious effort to realize one's higher Self and to bring this Self into one's
mundane self as often as possible thus coming to know one's true Self while incarnate.

You can dress up the RHP any way you like, it's still the surrendering of self to an imagined deity / intelligence . . . which is not what the LHP is about
As for getting "those dark juices flowing" . . . well H E Double-Toothpicks I guess we ALL like a little psycho-drama in our lives no and then!

 

[Mindmaster]

I've probably grown as disenchanted with the left-hand path as anyone -- probably it is because it is a complete misnomer in the way that something like Wicca is "breaking away" from Christianity while instituting a new dogma and similar arbitrary rules that are in contest with the observable laws of nature. Wicca steals from the eastern notions of Karma in the same way that the left-hand path bootlegs objectivism, ubermesch, or denies in many cases its roots to the fore-bearers of Wicca (OTO, GD, etc.. especially on the Luciferian side). It's become a cool kids contest only because no one has figure out how to put it into an iron gauntlet and smash someones head in with it. Does anyone connected to the LHP look like they know what they are talking about? I'll tell you what -- I just don't have time to do anything but throw a few posts out here and there. "The real LHP" takes more time than I probably possess in this life; if you see someone giving tons of interviews or writing tons of books they aren't doing anything but exactly that! I spend nearly eight hours a day just researching the subjects I need to be versed in to get through to the next stage of my development. If I could put twenty-four of those hours to it it still wouldn't be enough... See where I am going?

The more someone talks the less they do except talk. LaVey talked, Gilmore talks, Aquino talks, and many other "Satanic" personalities talk a lot -- but they do not DO. They do nothing but talk or write.

Hint: If an author you read about spooky occult stuff has more than ten books to their name on a subject -- they are a full time garbage regurgitation machine. Their primary skill is in cutting, pasting, and editing data from other sources -- they have no time to use any of it. There is rarely ten books worth of material on any subject outside of sciences. Michael W. Ford comes to mind.. Ohh yes, and S. Connolly ... Don't want to forget anyone..

Maybe, I should be content with darkly-inspired animist and say a final screw you to the LHP and the fakery. But, I hold out just for the fact that maybe things will change in the future. I'm probably just overly sentimental....

 

[Adramelek]

If we take a Christian church and make them all wear black robes, then change the name "Jesus" to "Set" or "Satan" (get those dark juices flowing), are they now LHP?

That would be a resounding No! The "Dark Lord" or "Satan", "Lucifer", "Set", whatever, did not create the human psyche so that we could become groveling servants and worshippers. The Dark Lord does not seek servants or mindless sheep worshippers, but rather equals and collaborators in the quest to re-create the Cosmos. The Dark Lord may bestow unto us knowledge and strength of mind and will, but that shall and should be his only other deliberate intervention. He does not answer prayers, and is not going to save you from an oncoming train if your car breaks down on a railroad, and you are too stupid to not get out of the car and run. The Dark Lord seeks only those who seek him, those who wield his Gift with wisdom and understanding in living their own lives, on their own paths, creating their own creations, those who forge their own ways in the Great Work of Life. To me, that is the Path of the Left Hand.

 

[1137]

This was something I posted a million years ago under The Doors of Perception. Let's pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[Adramelek]

The more someone talks the less they do except talk. LaVey talked, Gilmore talks, Aquino talks, and many other "Satanic" personalities talk a lot -- but they do not DO. They do nothing but talk or write.

I have been thinking about this, and MM I must take issue with you concerning Dr. Michael Aquino, who most definitely is a Doer;

"Michael A. Aquino was the only member of the Church of Satan to attain the Second Level of the Fourth Degree (Magister Templi IV*-II') prior to 1975, and was a member of the Church's Council of Nine and Order of the Trapezoid 1970-75. He served as Editor of the Church's Cloven Hoof newsletter 1971-75.

He served as founding High Priest of the Temple of Set 1975-1996, was Recognized as a Magus V* and Ipsissimus VI*, and was founding Grand Master of the Temple's Order of the Trapezoid 1982-87.

In secular life he is a Lt. Colonel, Military Intelligence, U.S. Army (Ret.). He is a graduate of the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, National Defense University; Defense Intelligence College, Defense Intelligence Agency; Foreign Service Institute, Department of State; U.S. Army Special Warfare Center (Special Forces ("Green Beret")/Psychological Operations/Civil Affairs/Foreign Area Officer); U.S. Army Command & General Staff College; U.S. Army Intelligence School, and U.S. Army Space Institute. Decorations include the Bonze Star, Meritorious Service Medal, Air Medal, Army Commendation Medal (3 awards), Special Forces Tab, Parachutist Badge, and the Republic of Veitnam Gallantry Cross.

Academic credentials include the B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. in Political Science from the University of California; and the M.P.A. in Public Administration from George Washington University. He has taught as Adjunct Professor of Political Science, Golden Gate University 1980-86."

If those are not the credentials of a Doer then I don't know what is.

 

[Mindmaster]

What are the qualifications for Magus and Ipsissimus other than to just say you are one?

The rest are just domestic stuff... I was speaking about magical and spiritual things...

For someone who is supposedly so LHP he seems to be the ultimate in physical and mental drone conditioning. For most LHP there are going to be problems with being involved in the miltary or subjecting themselves to the conditioning of an advanced degree program... I don't know what he is, but he has a lot of paper... Too bad I've see a lot of others with the same amount of paper... They have the same ability to be whack as well lol...

I mean, I see the good point of being military -- you don't have to think so you have plenty of time to do something else.. lol

 

[Adramelek]

For someone who is supposedly so LHP he seems to be the ultimate in physical and mental drone conditioning. For most LHP there are going to be problems with being involved in the miltary or subjecting themselves to the conditioning of an advanced degree program... I don't know what he is, but he has a lot of paper... Too bad I've see a lot of others with the same amount of paper... They have the same ability to be whack as well lol...

I mean, I see the good point of being military -- you don't have to think so you have plenty of time to do something else.. lol

You slay me sometimes MM, your an intelligent man, but you bewilder me at times. I've made my point about Aquino, and I know you think he is "whack". In my book someone who goes through the conditioning and discipline of becoming a warrior/soldier, as well as, questing to become the Truth of their own individual Being, is most admirable, and is definitely a Setian LHP virtue. So I guess according to you I am somewhat "whack".

 

[Mindmaster]

Really, I'm just having problems consolidating his apparently empirical nature with any supposed magical one. They are generally mutually exclusive... It's not that I think his real life accomplishments don't give him some standing in a materialistic sense, but they play havoc with any idea that he has magical accomplishments for me. I generally see Setians as 1/3rd Magic/Transcendent/Materialistic... Which basically means they're "nothing"... Personally, I think that is hard for anyone to compute that isn't lining up with that view. It's like anything... go too far to one side of the pool and you can't really be a master of the other... I think he's deeply in the materialistic side of the pool.

 

[Adramelek]

I generally see Setians as 1/3rd Magic/Transcendent/Materialistic... Which basically means they're "nothing"... Personally, I think that is hard for anyone to compute that isn't lining up with that view. It's like anything... go too far to one side of the pool and you can't really be a master of the other... I think he's deeply in the materialistic side of the pool.

I do apologize for saying this my friend, but you don't know what your talking about when it comes to Setians and the Temple of Set. To me its all just outsider opinion and false impressions. Try joining the ToS and experience a few years of Initiation in the Black Arts, you might learn a thing or two. Tell me what you think then.

Love ya dude.

 

[Mindmaster]

Initiation is an interesting concept... You have to think someone has something valuable for you to allow yourself to be initiated... I don't see anything I couldn't get somewhere else or don't already do.. The other use is a religious context which, again I'd find problems with because I don't have any way to validate that concept. Thus, my commentary on the lack of congruence where Setian ideas seem to fluctuate from scientific to theological thinking... Basically, it looks like they're playing the field of ideas and the result is some sort of complicated syncretic manifestation of LHP, magic, and pagan ideas. That has nothing to do with my opinion of you... Just my points of contention with the philosophy...

I can't be a Setian for the same reason I can't be a Christian... I see the "faith" elements in both concepts and reject them. I know the history and know all of the origins... I reject the origin as well as the derived thought on the basis of faith, but my faith is in neither science, religion, or magic.. Just in me..

 

[Adramelek]

I can't be a Setian for the same reason I can't be a Christian... I see the "faith" elements in both concepts and reject them. I know the history and know all of the origins... I reject the origin as well as the derived thought on the basis of faith, but my faith is in neither science, religion, or magic.. Just in me..

There is that damn word again "faith". The ToS philosophy and religion is not faith based. It is only through trial and error that I am convinced in the existence of Set, the Prince of Darkness, as a reality and that Magick is real. I have worked with and have experienced them both. I am not out to "save" souls or to convert or convince others of what I know to be Truth. It is up to them to willfully choose to work with and experience it for themselves. There may have been some faith in the beginning for me, but it has nothing to do with it anymore. I can tell a desert dweller who has never seen one that there is an ocean out there, I can describe it to them, but they must go out and actually see it with their own eyes and touch and swim in the waters, taste the salt water on their own tongues in order to truly Know it exists.

Mindmaster you are a reality, no need for faith.

 

[Mindmaster]

Faith is also whatever evidence you believe. You can have faith in science, or anything else. Don't get confused by my use of the term. Anyway, it's whatever you think it is for you. You seem happy with it -- that's good enough for me.

You can't expect me to settle for one set of ideas when there are so many others worth dismantling and destroying along the way. I'm just salvaging what is worthwhile and trashing the rest... Create, destroy, enjoy! IO Chaos!

Truth is a useless concept... Every single conception of a fact is relative to some other idea or supposed fact which ultimately leads to a chain of trust into either a book, a person, or a field of thought. It's the most meaningless word on the earth yet everyone says it like it's the best thing ever. Not to mention the power of the human mind to shape itself to whatever psycho-spiritual paradigm it is pleased by and take that as a fact.

Most people are looking for answers, but I am just looking for the next wave in the chaotic maisma to surf toward the future. I don't want certainty, but to place an effigy of gushing stochastic bliss which destroys the tyranny of reason, the paganisms, and the monotheisms.... One truth be damned... The only truth in this universe is how random it is, and how wrong anyone is who is vehement about that fact that it is not.

Damn the scholars, the re-constructionists, the scientists, the magicians, and anyone else dedicated to maintaining the status quo of psycho-spiritual ghosts. Put them in the box, set them on fire, and dance! Let them go where they belong... The past... If they had the answers we'd be on Alpha Centauri right now chilling with some alien dudes... They will only be happy if we continue to foot-drag our way through ages paying homage to dead gods, dead ideas, and worse thinking we know every damn thing already...

 

[Adramelek]

Xeper and Remanifest Mindmaster!

Gnothi seauton!

 

[Adramelek]

What are the qualifications for Magus and Ipsissimus other than to just say you are one?

A Magus is one who defines a philosophy of life and existence through a Word. An Ipsissimus is one whose Word has become crystalized into the fabric of the objective universe, sometimes leading to the the creation of a religion and/or a philosophy of life. The Word of Moses was Restriction with his ten commandments which lead to the creation of Judaism. The Word of Jesus Christ was Agape, Love of God, which lead to the creation of Christianity. The Word of Mohammad was Islam, total submission. The Word of Crowley was Thelema, True Will. The Word of Anton LaVey was Indulgence, which lead to the creation of modern day Satanism. The Word of Dr. Michael Aquino was Xeper, To Come Into Being, which lead to the re-manifestation of the ancient Temple and Priesthood of Set in modern times.

As Magus Don Webb once put it - "As human beings we are familiar with many "worlds." We can talk about the "world of Thomas Jefferson" or the "world of Newton." Magical worlds are created by Words -- by the verbal power of mankind to express a divine principle -- which through the effect of that Utterance on the objective universe brings about the creation of the world. The Word serves as a gateway for the mind seeking to enter the world it defines, and the effects of an Utterance of a Word will cause many worlds to be reconfigured in order to Hear it."

 

[ThirtyThree]

This is bothering me to a great extent lately. It seems much if not most of the supposed LHP is wrapped up in religious organizations, placed within a heirarchy, spouting quotes from religious texts, treating the forming members as prophets, etc etc etc. From the CoS to Michael Ford to the ToS and everything in between, every organization out there. So, it again begs the question of what is the Left Hand Path? If we take a Christian church and make them all wear black robes, then change the name "Jesus" to "Set" or "Satan" (get those dark juices flowing), are they now LHP?

Personally I say no.

The goats have their prophets and the lambs have theirs. What makes the two groups different?