CMike
Well-Known Member
Makes no sense.
And of course, since god the human was dead, there was no one to ressurect him.
It fails all logic.
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If Jesus was a sacrifice...
- Thread starter Faybull
- Start date
And of course, since god the human was dead, there was no one to ressurect him.
It fails all logic.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Except you failed to mention that Adam and Eve neither one knew right from wrong...
You failed to mention that god allowed the serpent into the garden...
One question.
Why was the tree even there? Why not put on the Moon? Or Mars? Or somewhere in Alpha Centauri? Or not make one at all?
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Jehovah God took the man and settles him in the garden of E'den to cultivate it and to take care of it. Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die." - Ge 2:15-17
Now the serpent was the most cautious (or "shrewdest; craftiest.") of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: "Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?" At this the woman said to the serpent: "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. but God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: 'You must not eat from it, no. you must not touch it; otherwise you will.die.'" - Gen 3:1-5
Does it sound like Adam and Eve lacked comprehension? Are perfect mankind blithering idiots? (No, Jesus is portrayed as perfect and as he was growing up people were astounded at his comprehension (Luke 2:47)) No, the tree only represented the choice to choose independence and the consequence of getting to know thru experience that God's ultimate choice to choose for them what was good and bad was always in their best interests. Comprehension was not the issue, and in Adam's case, believing God spoke the truth was not an issue. As 1 Ti 2:14 states, "Also Adam was not deceived."
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
So they were punished for doing what god wanted them to do?
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
If I recall correctly that is how the Mormon's reason.
But no, they were kicked out for deliberate rebellion. As ones not prone to make mistakes, their action constituted a deliberate choice to live independently from God. Had they been prone to error already it could have been excusable.
But no, they were kicked out for deliberate rebellion. As ones not prone to make mistakes, their action constituted a deliberate choice to live independently from God. Had they been prone to error already it could have been excusable.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Except that it's a way over-simplified explanation of our doctrine. God was no dummy. He knew full well that if He placed two innocent people with no knowledge of good and evil in a garden and allowed the most cunning and devious being ever created to tempt them with a promise of godhood, they would succumb to temptation. It would be unimaginably naive for Him to have expected anything else of them. But if He knew what they would certainly do, it would seem almost malicious of Him to have punished them for doing what He'd told them not to do -- UNLESS He had a higher purpose in mind, which He did. He knew that they could only learn and progress if they were given the experience of mortality, along with the choices it would afford them every day of their lives. He wanted them to experience sickness so that they would be able to appreciate health. He wanted them to experience failure so that they would know the joy of success. In short, He wanted them to come to realize that everything has its opposite. He especially wanted them to be able to learn to make a distinction between good and evil and to be able to enjoy the blessings that come with choosing good. If they had never been able to live outside, Eden, they would never have grown. Growth requires challenges, but there would be great blessings for meeting these challenges and making right choices. It is true that they disobeyed God, but they did so in much the same way as a 2-year old who touches a hot stove after being warned not to does. It was not until after they had eaten the fruit that God said, "Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." In other words, knowing good and evil is a godly trait that they acquired as a result of eating the fruit. Besides, it's not as if God hadn't warned them that there would be consequences for their disobedience. Because He had, He was entirely justified in casting them out into the world. Thus they took the first step towards setting God's plan for the immortality and eternal life of man in motion.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Metaphor, metaphor, metaphor.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that our failures are the results of our own choices.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Hence there was no sacrifice. At least in the life dept.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's a very screwed up and messy theology.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
He sacrificed his "humanity"?
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
he still has the right to live as a higher form of life - as he was originally a spirit creature to begin with. But he paid a corresponding ransom, that is an equal price for what was lost....Adam's right to perfect human life. and the right to pass that on to his offspring.
Losing his humanity may be an accurate term, but it is misleading. We think of the emotions of love and/or empathy, justice and perhaps wisdom as being gone when "humanity" is lost. Yet Gen 1:26 records God as telling his son, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..."
So, yes his "humanity" was lost in one sense but not the sense of losing these God-like qualities.
Losing his humanity may be an accurate term, but it is misleading. We think of the emotions of love and/or empathy, justice and perhaps wisdom as being gone when "humanity" is lost. Yet Gen 1:26 records God as telling his son, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..."
So, yes his "humanity" was lost in one sense but not the sense of losing these God-like qualities.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Think about it. Freewill. That's the whole point, they did have the choice.
And? Why did he have to create evil to begin with?