Thanks for sharing scripture with me. So...come, let us reason together.
The Christian belief is that scripture shows from Genesis through to Revelation there is an unfolding of history the pivotal point of which is Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross and the culmination of which is Jesus Christ's return to judge all and put all under his absolute rule.
The pivotal point was Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross but Jesus Christ's return to judge all and put all under his absolute rule is only a Christian belief, and it is not supported by a correct interpretation of the Bible. Jesus never promised to return to earth after he ascended, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds, but I do not believe that was Jesus promising to return.
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Jesus himself indicates his eventual return in the gospels.
Reread Mathew 24:3 on.
The apostles approach Jesus on the mount of olives and ask him when the end of the "worldly age" would happen and what would be the sign of his coming. Jesus can't come back if he hasn't left in some manner. And Jesus wouldn't have been asked how they would know when he is about to come back if he never does.
Jesus was asked by the disciples what would be ethe sign of his coming and of the end of the age.
Matthew 24 NIV
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.
Please note that Jesus did not answer in the affirmative and say He was coming back. Jesus only warned the disciples not to be deceived by men who would come claiming to be Christ, because Jesus knew that many men would make such claims and indeed many men have.
Moving on we read about troubling times, tribulations such that the world has never seen, deceptions, false prophets etc. etc. then Jesus says in
Matthew 24:27 we read "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
This Son of Man title has been directly connected with Christ from various other verses.
In Matthew 24:30 Jesus says "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Christians believe that the following verses are about Jesus, but if Jesus was the Son of man, as Jesus claimed to be, the following verses that refer to the end times cannot be about the Jesus.
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold,
one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven
, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I believe that those verses are about Baha'u'llah who was
one like Jesus, thus He was the return of the Son of man.
Jesus is thus returning since Jesus was present on earth previously.
And again Matthew 24:37...
"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."
Matthew 24:42 is clearly a reference to Jesus returning “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come."
Jesus is definitely referenced as the Lord in scripture.
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come."
Yes, Jesus is referenced as Lord in the Bible but Jesus did not say:
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day I will come."
Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Lord of Hosts so I believe that is a reference to Baha’u’llah.
“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 272
The fulfillment of the end of this "age" is laid out Revelation. It depicts Christs return, the subduing and judgment of all the wicked, a renewing of heaven AND earth and the rightful enthronements of Jesus over all things.
Christians believe that Revelation is about Jesus returning in the same body He had while on earth 2000 years ago but Baha'is believe that Revelation is about the return of the Christ spirit in Baha’u’llah.
The Bible says Christ would return with
a new name, so we know he would not be called Jesus.
Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by
a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone
a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him
my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
The
new name means that the return of Christ would be another man. It would not be Jesus.
Scripture tells us Jesus is spiritually present with us in some manner. The return of Christ will be a fulfillment of scripture in which all things in reality -physical and spiritual - will be subject to his judgment and rule.
The thing is that Jesus could not return from heaven physically since Jesus is in heaven with a spiritual body, not a physical body.
1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth.
The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44
They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that
our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
What you've quoted...
In John 14:19 Jesus means that his physical embodiment and observed activity will no longer be on the earth and witnessed by worldly people.
His meaning and importance will fade over time except to those who adhere to his teachings.
John 16:10, he goes to his father, he becomes a spiritual being unseen by physical means.
John 17:4 The work Jesus finished on earth is his sacrifice for all humans and the spreading of divine revelation concerning such things.
John 17:11 Jesus is no more physically present in the world for all the doubting Thomas's to behold. From now on it becomes "blessed are those who have not seen but believe".
Does this interpretation seem reasonable?
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
No more means
no further,
never again.
Definitions from Oxford Languages
You need only look at the context in order to know that Jesus was referring to what we would see in the world in the future, not to worldly people.
Baha’is believe that Jesus was a Comforter and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter. We believe that the Spirit of Jesus came to the world in the person of Baha’u’llah, who was the Spirit of truth.
John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
I agree that John 16:10 means that Jesus goes to his father, he becomes a spiritual being unseen by physical means.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
I agree that John 17:4 is referring to the work Jesus finished on earth is his sacrifice for all humans and the spreading of divine revelation concerning such things, but it also refers to Jesus glorifying God..
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
No more means
no further,
never again.
Definitions from Oxford Languages
I believe that in John 14:19 and John 17:11 no more means Jesus will
never again be in the world again. Yes, I agree it means that Jesus is no more physically present in the world for all the doubting Thomas's to behold.
