ID Proponents Not Letting a Few Facts Get in the Way...

[The Voice of Reason]

I am providing a link to a story on MSNBC - showing that, in Kansas at least, irrational minds never give up: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736155/

You just know that Dorothy would never have come back from the Land of Oz, if she knew that her home state was populated by "Flat Earther's" and the ID gang.

Sadly, it would appear that the morons may have found a way to spread their particularly virulent form of stupidity - by strangling the truth as it is taught to our youth. One can only hope that enough parents have the guts to oppose this crap, and demand that their children be taught science instead of ignorance.

TVOR

 

[Sunstone]

That we are able to dispense with the scientific method when deciding issues in science is a sign we live in a very healthy society, TVOR. A society that no longer irrationally clings to the old methods of the past. Just because the scientific methods have gotten us to where we are in understanding nature is no reason to nurse a neurotic respect for them. Letting politicians, rather than scientists, decide what's good science and what's not good science is one of the most brilliant things we have ever done as a society. It's truly liberating!

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Right you are, Sunstone - with any luck, some of these right wing, religiously backed, politically motivated fanatics can next target that most indefensible scientific postulate - a round earth. If we can debunk that one, our next target should be to reinstate the Earth as the center of the universe.

Oy vey!

TVOR

 

[Sunstone]

I completely agree, TVOR! The simple fact is: evolution, the round earth, and the heliocentric solar system just don't give most of us the same warm and fuzzy feelings as creationism, the flat earth, and an earthcentric solar system do. After all, we live in a day and age when -- except for a few outcastes -- "truth" means whatever makes us feel good. And that's how it should be! Who wants to suffer when learning? Who wants to have their 5th grade notions of the universe turned toppsy turvy? If the scientists cannot come up with easier to swallow truths, then I blame the scientists!

Fortunately, the conservatives on the Kansas school board are aware of the pain and angst caused us by the theory of evolution and are prepared to do something about it. I have faith they will do the right thing by making textbooks give equal time to more "user friendly" truths than evolution.

 

[linwood]

Why are they doing this?

Mainstream science organizations spurned invitations to participate, dismissing the hearings in Topeka as an effort “to attack and undermine science,” in the view of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which publishes the journal Science. As a result, the only witnesses heard Thursday were advocates of a philosophy called “intelligent design,” critics of evolution or both. Pedro Irigonegaray, a Topeka lawyer representing what he called mainstream science, dismissed the event as a “kangaroo court.”

Science should not allow these people to spew their garbage to ignorant school boards unapposed.

It is so simply logically easy to destroy any argument for ID in a public debate that their choice of non-response is ridiculous.

When science asks why our nation teaches creation in high school in 10 years I will point them to this article.

 

[Sunstone]

Yeah, Linwood, I agree that it was probably a bad strategy by the scientific community to boycott this circus. Creationist and ID arguments can have a certain superficial plausibility that in the absence of opposition might persuade some people to believe in those notions. It's not too tough to debunk Creationism and ID, but you have to show up to do it.

 

[MatCauthorn]

It's not too tough to debunk Creationism and ID, but you have to show up to do it.

Unfortunately, it often is difficult to debunk these sorts of arguments in the settings in which they're presented. An intelligent design proponent can stand up at a school meeting and say, "Now, nobody here believes that humans came from monkeys, so don't go giving us that old line. I read a book that says that scientists are covering up the fact that some things in the animal kingdom are too complicated to have come from evolution - like the human eye, and the blood-clotting system. Plus, think about it like this - if you come across a watch in the desert, you don't think 'that's weird, the sand particles joined together and formed a watch.' No! You know there's a watchmaker somewhere. It's the same thing with a human being - we didn't just come from nowhere. We have a creator, and our kids should be learning about Him in school!"

It takes about forty seconds to say these words, but it would take far, far longer to explain the very real problems with every single one of the points raised. Plus, if a pro-evolution parent spends all his/her time refuting arguments made by the other side, they have no time to make their own points about how evolution is a cornerstone of modern biology, how kids who don't understand evolution will struggle when they take higher-level courses (especially in college), and how the curriculum of a public school should not be decided by what the majority of people believe but instead by recognized experts in the fields being studied.

And, as we can see, it's unfortunately a very effective strategy.

-- Mat

 

[gld]

So ID has no validity?

 

[greatcalgarian]

I have a conspiracy theory :149: for you to consider:
Creationists are the secret agents and the last resort of the dying communist world, where they will undermine the righteous free democratic America. They also infiltrated or worked hand in glove with the fundamentalist Christians. This is done by encouraging American to believe in ID and Creationism, and deflect them away from the right path way of true science for the advancement of America. This will pitch one against another as shown in the Kansas now. In another 20 years time, the next generation of Americans will not be able to compete with others, as their knowledge will be based on Creationist dead wrong 'science'. Make sense?:bonk:

 

[MatCauthorn]

In another 20 years time, the next generation of Americans will not be able to compete with others, as their knowledge will be based on Creationist dead wrong 'science'.

Whether your conspiracy theory is correct or not, the end result is the same. As it is, kids are already showing up in college classrooms with no formal knowledge of evolution because schools and teachers are becoming so reticent to take a stand on the issue that they are simply not teaching evolution at all. This is a victory for ID/Creationism proponents because it means that the general public has less of a factual basis on which to dispute their fantastic claims.

But, of course, nobody is concerned with America's future in the sciences, and the future of science in the world, because they're too busy being focused on the "next world," while at the same time polluting the environment, stirring racial hatred, etc. in THIS world.

*sigh*

Take care of this world and the next one (if it exists) will take care of itself -- that's my motto.

-- Mat

 

[Pah]

So ID has no validity?

Not as a science for it presents no scientific evidence in support of itself. ID is no better than a movie critic that can't produce movies.