I support Israel but not for reasons some think

[Richerd92]

I support same way that Germany is for Germans, America is for Americans, Norway is for Norwegians, Israel is for Hebrews (Although i hope they get a deal with Palestinians so that they both benefit from it equally "think it was the reason Oslo Accords didnt work because Palestinians felt they got a bad deal") But war just never solves anything.

But what i dont support is Judaism, because i see it in same way i see Aryanism. Its the idea that "Chosen people are picked to rule the world because of ethnic divine reason" Like i do get why Aryanism is racist, but nobody ever asks that same question about Judaism?

Interms of having a home country i can relate to that. But Judaism as an ideology i dont fully get. But let me know if you disagree?

 

[Rival]

"Chosen people are picked to rule the world because of ethnic divine reason"

The Jewish people are not picked to 'rule the world', nor is it purely an ethnic religion; although Judaism is passed from one's mother, one can also convert. However, it's a myth that the Jews are chosen to 'rule'. Others aren't excluded from the Jewish religion, as Noahidism is the path for non-Jews, according to Jewish thought. Neither group is somehow 'better' than the other; the one just has more commandments. If you read the Tanakh, the Jewish people are chastised, reprimanded, and exiled by G-d on multiple occasions.

 

[Richerd92]

The Jewish people are not picked to 'rule the world', nor is it purely an ethnic religion; although Judaism is passed from one's mother, one can also convert. However, it's a myth that the Jews are chosen to 'rule'. Others aren't excluded from the Jewish religion, as Noahidism is the path for non-Jews, according to Jewish thought. Neither group is somehow 'better' than another; the one just has more commandments. If you read the Tanakh, the Jewish people are chastised, reprimanded and exiled by G-d on multiple occasions.

I just think historically the reason Judaism became a thing, same thing with Nazi germany has lots of similar starting point. Canaanites got often beaten by war empires, Canaan was a vassal state of egypt at the time. 5 books of Moses according to historians were written in 600 BC. The one with true monotheism in a sense, also covered by historians that it got enforced when Cyrus the Great let Jews rebuild their homeland.

Nazism happend because WW1 defeat and the heavy punishment, and inflation, so was pretty hopeless situation so the nazi party got into power "Even though they were ridiculed at first". I am just saying the mentality seems to be the same that when people are struck with form of ultimate humiliation they build a insecure mentality of chosen people to divinely be the rulers of others.

But just to not be off topic. Isnt there dozens of time in old testament that mentions how Other nations are gonna fall for Israel? Isnt it more that Jews just werent good warriors and thats why they lost? I read about reasons why anti judaism was such a huge thing with Greeks in 200 BC was because they heard of the whole chosen race thing and i guess it got them pissed.

But its just hard for me to believe that this is not a legit ethnic chosen one mentality is all. Even though Judaism allows converts "which is hard to do" but you could argue same thing with Nazis, if you are Aryan enough then you can join the rank

Some confuse Aryans for being the cultural settlement in India which is not the same thing. What Nazi Germany was about was the whole "Aryan migration" some went to europe, some went to Iran, some went to India. Its at best mythological concept.

 

[Rival]

5 books of Moses according to historians were written in 600 BC. The one with true monotheism in a sense, also covered by historians that it got enforced when Cyrus the Great let Jews rebuild their homeland.

I have theological differences here with you, but I'm not here to argue about this.

Nazism happend because WW1 defeat and the heavy punishment, and inflation, so was pretty hopeless situation so the nazi party got into power "Even though they were ridiculed at first". I am just saying the mentality seems to be the same that when people are struck with form of ultimate humiliation they build a insecure mentality of chosen people to divinely be the rulers of others.

No, this is not the case at all. The idea of being chosen is found in the Torah, where even there the Hebrews are called 'a stiffnecked people.' They are not chosen to be the rulers of other nations.

But just to not be off topic. Isnt there dozens of time in old testament that mentions how Other nations are gonna fall for Israel? Isnt it more that Jews just werent good warriors and thats why they lost? I read about reasons why anti judaism was such a huge thing with Greeks in 200 BC was because they heard of the whole chosen race thing and i guess it got them pissed.

Not that I'm aware. G-d repeatedly chastises the Jews for not following the Torah and for their leaders being ill-behaved towards the lowest classes of society, for thinking that rituals are good enough. They are told off for worshipping idols, as in the case of the First Temple, or baseless hatred of one another, as in the time of the Second Temple. There's nothing about ruling over others and a whole lot of chastisements.

If you're referring to verses like this in Yeshayahu 14,

And peoples shall take them and bring them to their place, and the House of Israel shall inherit them on the soil of the Lord, for slaves and maidservants, and they shall be captors to their captors and rule over those who dominate over them.

This is happening in the land of Israel, not the whole world; it's saying that those who oppressed Israel will be defeated and Israel will be victorious over them.

But its just hard for me to believe that this is not a legit ethnic chosen one mentality is all. Even though Judaism allows converts "which is hard to do" but you could argue same thing with Nazis, if you are Aryan enough then you can join the rank

Anyone can convert to Judaism as long as they're serious about it.

 

[Richerd92]

I have theological differences here with you, but I'm not here to argue about this.


No, this is not the case at all. The idea of being chosen is found in the Torah, where even there the Hebrews are called 'a stiffnecked people.' They are not chosen to be the rulers of other nations.


Not that I'm aware. G-d repeatedly chastises the Jews for not following the Torah and for their leaders being ill-behaved towards the lowest classes of society, for thinking that rituals are good enough. They are told off for worshipping idols, as in the case of the First Temple, or baseless hatred of one another, as in the time of the Second Temple. There's nothing about ruling over others and a whole lot of chastisements.


Anyone can convert to Judaism as long as they're serious about it.

Ok, just to make few comments
- Jealous god
- Avoid foreign nations, they are bad
- God will humiliate other nations

Its a little simplified... But doesnt that sound kind of... you know.