Hugging populists

[Jumi]

Always optimistic and pro-EU former Finnish PM Alexander Stubb who wants the top EU job said that we should "hug populism to death" and listening to the fears of euroskeptics.

"There are legitimate fears on migration, the digital revolution, related to the future of work, and fears need to be addressed before it is too late"

He also pointed out US, Russia and China as potential outside dangers to the EU and Poland, Hungary and Italy as internal dangers. He also said he has zero tolerance for intolerance.

Any thoughts on this "hugging to death"? Could it be a choice, I assume in a symbolic way, or is the current way of bipartisanship the right one?

 

[Estro Felino]

and Poland, Hungary and Italy as internal dangers.

He's right. We are internal dangers because we want to rewrite Maastricht.....and possibly to undo this EU.
but Juncker & Co. are so stupid that they haven't figured it out yet.

 

[Augustus]

Always optimistic and pro-EU former Finnish PM Alexander Stubb who wants the top EU job said that we should "hug populism to death" and listening to the fears of euroskeptics.

One thing the EU has shown zero ability to do is to understand and respond to anti-EU sentiments.

This is because, for many people, the EU has always been an ideological project, rather than a pragmatic one. The response to criticisms is just to assume that these result from poor execution or the project, rather than problems with many of the ideological assumptions.

The response to pushback against EU influence and the consequences of its policies always tends to be 'more EU'. This is akin to believing the best response to a house fire is to introduce more fire to the house.

I imagine "listening to Eurosceptics" will be listening to them and then telling them why they are wrong/stupid/bigoted.

Rather than being an anomaly, I think Brexit will be the first of several dominoes that will fall over the coming decades.

 

[Jumi]

He's right. We are internal dangers because we want to rewrite Maastricht.....and possibly to undo this EU.
but Juncker & Co. are so stupid that they haven't figure it out yet.

Do you think if Stubb replaces Juncker... that listening to your fears might change "you" from "dangers" to friends? Stubb is of course talking from experience, how they managed to take a strongly anti-immigration anti-EU party as part of government and making them part of the process, basically neutralizing that.

 

[Jumi]

The response to pushback against EU influence and the consequences of its policies always tends to be 'more EU'. This is akin to believing the best response to a house fire is to introduce more fire to the house.

I agree. Lots of negatives of the EU are either hushed or ignored. Then who do you go for if you want to talk about negatives? Some radical reactionaries who have a package including negative ideas. Basically pushing critics into more extreme groups. When I voted to join EU in 90s, we only knew about Brits being euroskeptics and there was a lot of false hype that was of course promises that weren't kept. But of course that's always politics. Once you were a member though, you didn't have right to complain. The monetary union was a huge failure for us of course, but you can't opt out easily if you already are part of it.

I imagine "listening to Eurosceptics" will be listening to them and then telling them why they are wrong/stupid/bigoted.

Possible, though I hope Stubb is more reasonable than that. He's ambitious and probably wants to keep the EU running even if there's nominal compromise that the skeptics can claim as "victories" though they are not the things they were driving for and thus keep them and their political base happy.

Rather than being an anomaly, I think Brexit will be the first of several dominoes that will fall over the coming decades.

Possible. Lots of us are looking with great interest how the Brexit negotiations go. If the EU handles it well, their image will remain better. If they go for humiliations with excuses, they will opt for a house of cards.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you think if Stubb replaces Juncker... that listening to your fears might change "you" from "dangers" to friends? Stubb is of course talking from experience, how they managed to take a strongly anti-immigration anti-EU party as part of government and making them part of the process, basically neutralizing that.

Just a question, Jumi: do you believe the EU will be the same after brexit?

 

[Jumi]

Just a question, Jumi: do you believe the EU will be the same after brexit?

It won't and there's more dangers to the process than many would like to admit whether they are pro or con. Apparently the EU isn't looking at the opportunity as much as they should. How useful is it to try to keep someone in, who has special needs? The vision is too expansionistic in my view, I'd have no problem with less optimistic growth of EU. Develop what we can, keep autonomy and keep a strong core. There is no need to centralize a non-homogenous state, to go the way of the US or Soviet Union. I think it's possible to salvage the good of the EU.

A way to deal with less happy countries is to let them go their own way, keep as much of the mechanisms in place as possible and let them back if they want to come back.

If Italy leaves, do you think Poland and Hungary would have as much power to oppose what the EU wants to do?

 

[Estro Felino]

If Italy leaves, do you think Poland and Hungary would have as much power to oppose what the EU wants to do?

Italy will stay since it's one of the six founders of the EU.
But our goal is to change the Union, since we are restoring the socialism of the 90s, which implies much more public expenditure, and we want other EU countries to do the same, even if this will lead to a radical reform of the ECB.
Btw...we're officially at war with the European Commission.

Di Maio, Salvini children of inequality - Moscovici - English

 

[Jumi]

But our goal is to change the Union, since we are restoring the socialism of the 90s, which implies much more public expenditure, and we want other EU countries to do the same, even if this will lead to a radical reform of the ECB.

Well I agree with that, though I don't necessarily agree with the rest of what you might think "Italy will do". The way services are being taken down, education and health being saving targets and the position of weaker members of society are made worse is an issue that comes from top. EU with a good game plan would have me on board of course.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well I agree with that, though I don't necessarily agree with the rest of what you might think "Italy will do". The way services are being taken down, education and health being saving targets and the position of weaker members of society are made worse is an issue that comes from top. EU with a good game plan would have me on board of course.

Btw...this war on Hungary (and on us) waged by the Brussels gangs will split Europe in two: nationalists vs globalists.
Finland will have to pick a side...of course I hope you Finns choose ours

 

[Jumi]

Btw...this war on Hungary (and on us) waged by the Brussels gangs will split Europe in two: nationalists vs globalists.
Finland will have to pick a side...of course I hope you Finns choose ours

I hope for less division and more mutual problem solving myself.

 

[Estro Felino]

I hope for less division and more mutual problem solving myself.

When you hear sentences like this, you understand that the EU is nothing but a banking dictatorship based upon the ECB-Seigniorage....so rules must be changed.

You don't threaten anybody...Draghi

 

[Jumi]

I liked the euro before I realized everything got more expensive and exports started suffering. If we had our own currency we could adjust it, instead of just taking more loans and weakening healthcare to keep the system running.

 

[Estro Felino]

I liked the euro before I realized everything got more expensive and exports started suffering. If we had our own currency we could adjust it, instead of just taking more loans and weakening healthcare to keep the system running.

The common currency is a good thing, but the ECB is a system of usury exploited by big banks.
Tell me why the Bank of England owns the 14% of the ECB stakes even if Britain doesn't and will never have the Euro?