How is "Salvation" attained in your Religion?

[DreamQuickBook]

i don't believe that what will happen when i die is of as great an importance as what i do now on this earth in this life...
.
all we can do is our best and what we think is right and try to make the world a better place than what it was when we got here

This is one aspect of Judaism I like very much. In fact, I know many Jews who do not even believe in a literal heaven. I think there is too much focus in religion on after life and not enough focus on behavior here on earth. Religions obsess about "beliefs" and "faith" too much. Not enough in the here and now.

 

[Jaymes]

The same in Satanism.

We're all more alike than we know... or is that 'we're all more alike than we fear'?

 

[Sabio]

In a way, yes, but if you don't follow the teachings of Taoism there aren't dire consequences. You can't be saved if there's nothing to save yourself from.

Jensa,

In Taoism do you consider the writings of other teachers as good guidelines to live by? Would you be open to reading the teachings of Jesus and considering them on a "moral" basis only?

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

This is one aspect of Judaism I like very much. In fact, I know many Jews who do not even believe in a literal heaven. I think there is too much focus in religion on after life and not enough focus on behavior here on earth. Religions obsess about "beliefs" and "faith" too much. Not enough in the here and now.

Jocose,

I look at the after life as something already "secured" by Jesus for me. This allows me to focus on this life and the challenges / opportunities that surround me.

Sabio

 

[DreamQuickBook]

Jocose,

I look at the after life as something already "secured" by Jesus for me. This allows me to focus on this life and the challenges / opportunities that surround me.

Sabio

Well, I suppose that puts us both in the same position. You feel we need salvation, but because you've already secured it through Jesus Christ, you don't have to "earn it". I do not feel that I need salvation, so I do not have to "earn it" either.

The only difference, I suppose, is that, I suspect, you believe in order to have the Fruits of the Spirit, you must have the Holy Spirit; whereas I believe that virtue comes, not from God, but from experience. We experience that some behaviors are productive and beneficial, whereas other behaviors cause us harm and eat away at our happiness.

 

[Jaymes]

Jensa,

In Taoism do you consider the writings of other teachers as good guidelines to live by? Would you be open to reading the teachings of Jesus and considering them on a "moral" basis only?

Sabio

Of course! While I believe the writings of Taoism have a lot of good advice, I don't believe it has it all.. I don't believe any one writing or set of writings does. I'm very open to new teachings, but I don't really expect them to sway me from my beliefs.

 

[DreamQuickBook]

We're all more alike than we know... or is that 'we're all more alike than we fear'?

I adore Taosim. While the Satanic and Taoist interpretations of "nature" are different, both systems, like Stoicism, believe that the best way to live, is in accordance with our nature. Taoism would call it "going with the grain of life", I believe.

Asatru, Taoism, Stoicism and Satanism all have contributed to my religious worldview; but Satan is my "icon" or my idea of the governing force in nature.

 

[jewscout]

Can you explain to me what a mitzvot is, and how they are applied, I'm not clear on that.

Thanks

Sabio

Mitzvot (mitvah is the singular) are the laws or commandments of which there are 613. It is also a term to describe any good deed as well.

 

[Sabio]

Of course! While I believe the writings of Taoism have a lot of good advice, I don't believe it has it all.. I don't believe any one writing or set of writings does. I'm very open to new teachings, but I don't really expect them to sway me from my beliefs.

Jensa,

I look at it more like an "evolving of beliefs", rather than abandoning one for the other. Before I was a follower of Jesus I had a set of beliefs, and through investigation of several different religions my belief system evolved until I finally discovered Jesus.

Now is this the "end" of my spiritual evolution? No, He is changing me every day!

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

I adore Taosim. While the Satanic and Taoist interpretations of "nature" are different, both systems, like Stoicism, believe that the best way to live, is in accordance with our nature. Taoism would call it "going with the grain of life", I believe.

Asatru, Taoism, Stoicism and Satanism all have contributed to my religious worldview; but Satan is my "icon" or my idea of the governing force in nature.

Jocose,

When you left Jesus and decided to follow Satan did you retain any of your beliefs, it kind of sounds like it from your opinions on treating others fairly and such? Or did you have to totally wipe the hard drive clean and reprogram for Satan?

Sabio

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

my religion has no salvation. we jedi focus our actions on the here and now, where they belong. when we die, we lose our identity, and our soul returns to the unifying force, and our body back to the living force. You will be reabsorbed regardless of what you have done, our fate is all the same. we just strive to make this world better before we all kick the bucket.

 

[Draka]

Salvation? Hmmm...Not really an issue in Wicca. Adhere to our laws and learn and grow. We reincarnate until the Divine takes us back...how many lives we lead and what we go through and how we handle it is up to both us and Them.

Every person and soul is different, therefore every "salvation" is different. There is no prescribed one way for everyone.

 

[Sabio]

Salvation? Hmmm...Not really an issue in Wicca. Adhere to our laws and learn and grow. We reincarnate until the Divine takes us back...how many lives we lead and what we go through and how we handle it is up to both us and Them.

Every person and soul is different, therefore every "salvation" is different. There is no prescribed one way for everyone.

So salvation is not really an applicable word to Wicca? It sounds a lot like some of the Hindu religious beliefs, continous improvement through reincarnation. But why the need for improvement if there is nothing to be saved from?

Sabio

 

[Jaymes]

Why not improve yourself just for the sake of improving? I don't need a carrot at the end of a stick to feel I need to improve myself... I know I can do better.

 

[Draka]

So salvation is not really an applicable word to Wicca? It sounds a lot like some of the Hindu religious beliefs, continous improvement through reincarnation. But why the need for improvement if there is nothing to be saved from?

Sabio

Why does there need to be anything to be saved from? Why is the idea that we are put here just for the seeking of knowledge and wisdom and higher learning so hard for some to grasp? Why not just accept the gift of life that the Divine felt so loving as to give us? The opportunity to feel the emotions we do, to have the pleasures we do, to learn from the heartache we endure and become stronger for it.

 

[Sabio]

Why not improve yourself just for the sake of improving? I don't need a carrot at the end of a stick to feel I need to improve myself... I know I can do better.

I agree that improvement is an honorable pursuit, in and of itself.

Sabio

 

[Sabio]

Why does there need to be anything to be saved from? Why is the idea that we are put here just for the seeking of knowledge and wisdom and higher learning so hard for some to grasp? Why not just accept the gift of life that the Divine felt so loving as to give us? The opportunity to feel the emotions we do, to have the pleasures we do, to learn from the heartache we endure and become stronger for it.

Draka,

Actually I do believe that we were put here to seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding. And I do believe in accepting the free gift of salvation from Jesus. I agree that the emotions, pleasures and heartache are part of our life because they result in growth, understanding, patience, perserverence, and the ability to overcome.

Sabio

 

[Draka]

Draka,

Actually I do believe that we were put here to seek wisdom, knowledge and understanding. And I do believe in accepting the free gift of salvation from Jesus. I agree that the emotions, pleasures and heartache are part of our life because they result in growth, understanding, patience, perserverence, and the ability to overcome.

Sabio

Cool. I agree with all of that except the part of salvation from Jesus. Salvation to me seems to indicate that there is something we need saved from and that if we aren't then we will suffer. My thinking is simply that the Divine does not want their children to suffer, but to learn and will give us as many opportunities as we need to do that satisfactorily...hence reincarnation. Like the saying goes: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again" :jiggy:

 

[Sabio]

Cool. I agree with all of that except the part of salvation from Jesus. Salvation to me seems to indicate that there is something we need saved from and that if we aren't then we will suffer. My thinking is simply that the Divine does not want their children to suffer, but to learn and will give us as many opportunities as we need to do that satisfactorily...hence reincarnation. Like the saying goes: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again" :jiggy:

Draka,

Jesus said we should forgive a person 70x7 times! Thus, He taught us that everyone needs multiple opportunites to improve. So this is not foreign territory to a Christian. Its just that I believe we get all the opportunity necessary to improve in this life. I really don't think about suffering or judgement since I received the free gift of salvation from Jesus. The point is that we have the opportunity to have this issue decided and dealt with one time by Jesus, instead of being in turmoil and fear for a lifetime. As we Christians like to say, "it is under the blood" and God does not remember our sins any longer.

Sabio

 

[Draka]

Draka,

Jesus said we should forgive a person 70x7 times! Thus, He taught us that everyone needs multiple opportunites to improve. So this is not foreign territory to a Christian. Its just that I believe we get all the opportunity necessary to improve in this life. I really don't think about suffering or judgement since I received the free gift of salvation from Jesus. The point is that we have the opportunity to have this issue decided and dealt with one time by Jesus, instead of being in turmoil and fear for a lifetime. As we Christians like to say, "it is under the blood" and God does not remember our sins any longer.

Sabio

And there is the main difference between our beliefs. "Sins." In my belief it is not the Divine which keeps tally of our rights and wrongs, but ourselves. We are responsible for our own actions to ourselves and the souls we affect...it is us who determine the consequences for our soul. The power is in our own hands to return to the Divine. and we keep coming back until we have wiped our slate clean enough and learned enough to reunite with Them.