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How do Shias differ from Sunnis?

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Assalamu Alaikum

I was wondering what Shias believe in because I keep forgetting! I hear they believe Caliph succession to Muhammad should only be through his descendants but if this is true, why does ISIS hate Shias as Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is allegedly a descendant of Muhammad?
Aren't the modern day descendants of Muhammad part of Jordan's Royal Family???

Also i'd like to know what was the battle with Ali's sons about and between? As this is where there are tensions between Sunni and Shia?

To me Shia theology makes more sense than Sunni personally.
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
Hi ronki,

Unfortunatly, sometimes some people (Muslims or non-Muslims) provide people with wrong information about some sects and groups. so the best way is to ask each sect or group what exactly their belibes are. as you did :)

The main argument between Shia and Sunni is the leadership of ummah(the Muslim comunity).

I suggest you to do research on this important saying of prophet(pbuh);
There will be 12 rulers/succsesors after me, all from Quraish(prophet(pbuh)'s bloodline)

The mentioned saying is accepted basically by all the sects. it has got many versions as prophet(pbuh) has several times said it in different situations and several narrators have narrated. However, in Sunni books, the names of succssesors have not been mentioned clearly. Sunnis are sure that, three first Caliphs, Ali(a.s.) and Mahdi(pbuh) are from those 12. as they ruled Ummah(Mahdi(pbuh) will rule in the future, may Allah hasten his and Christ(pbuh) arrival) and are from Quraish. Sunnis regard the saying as prediction, not order. and they suppose that prophet(pbuh) left the leadership of Ummah as a matter of discussions.


In shia books, prophet(pbuh) did exactly specify the successors by names and nicknames. Starting from Ali(a.s.) and finishing by Mahdi(pbuh). authentic sayings of ptophet(pbuh) order to follow and support them. any one who fights with them has in fact fought by prophet(pbuh). any leadership exept their leadership is defective.

All three first Sunni Caliphs, had got the same bloodline of prophet, however, Shia also rejects them. Abubakr al Baghdadi might also be from the mentioned blood line, however, we reject him. As, we know the exact names of successors.
Only one and one can make a Caliphate, and it is the last succesor of prophet(pbuh), Mahdi, peacebe upon him and Christ when they rise for the survival of humanity.

Ali(a.s.) shall be regarded as the first successor, as prophet(pbuh) said that he was.
If we suppose that prophet(pbuh) left successosion as a matter of discussions to chose the best person and If it comes to democracy and chosing the right person, again Ali(a.s.) should be chosen. because he was wiser, stronger, cleverer, closer to prophet, and.....

Umar, the second Caliph, was an angry warrior, who could not answer simple questions from Quran. how can be regarded as a succesor of prophet?!
He ruined Iran and made Iranians Muslims by force and blood. as ISIS does. no Sunni should blame ISIS as they exactly follow their Caliph and put every foot step on his foot steps.

Compare him with Ali(a.s.), he didnt attack Yemen, he talked yo them in days and persuaded them to accept Islam. not even a single person was killed....
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Hi ronki,

Unfortunatly, sometimes some people (Muslims or non-Muslims) provide people with wrong information about some sects and groups. so the best way is to ask each sect or group what exactly their belibes are. as you did :)

The main argument between Shia and Sunni is the leadership of ummah(the Muslim comunity).

I suggest you to do research on this important saying of prophet(pbuh);
There will be 12 rulers/succsesors after me, all from Quraish(prophet(pbuh)'s bloodline)

The mentioned saying is accepted basically by all the sects. it has got many versions as prophet(pbuh) has several times said it in different situations and several narrators have narrated. However, in Sunni books, the names of succssesors have not been mentioned clearly. Sunnis are sure that, three first Caliphs, Ali(a.s.) and Mahdi(pbuh) are from those 12. as they ruled Ummah(Mahdi(pbuh) will rule in the future, may Allah hasten his and Christ(pbuh) arrival) and are from Quraish. Sunnis regard the saying as prediction, not order. and they suppose that prophet(pbuh) left the leadership of Ummah as a matter of discussions.


In shia books, prophet(pbuh) did exactly specify the successors by names and nicknames. Starting from Ali(a.s.) and finishing by Mahdi(pbuh). authentic sayings of ptophet(pbuh) order to follow and support them. any one who fights with them has in fact fought by prophet(pbuh). any leadership exept their leadership is defective.

All three first Sunni Caliphs, had got the same bloodline of prophet, however, Shia also rejects them. Abubakr al Baghdadi might also be from the mentioned blood line, however, we reject him. As, we know the exact names of successors.
Only one and one can make a Caliphate, and it is the last succesor of prophet(pbuh), Mahdi, peacebe upon him and Christ when they rise for the survival of humanity.

Ali(a.s.) shall be regarded as the first successor, as prophet(pbuh) said that he was.
If we suppose that prophet(pbuh) left successosion as a matter of discussions to chose the best person and If it comes to democracy and chosing the right person, again Ali(a.s.) should be chosen. because he was wiser, stronger, cleverer, closer to prophet, and.....

Umar, the second Caliph, was an angry warrior, who could not answer simple questions from Quran. how can be regarded as a succesor of prophet?!
He ruined Iran and made Iranians Muslims by force and blood. as ISIS does. no Sunni should blame ISIS as they exactly follow their Caliph and put every foot step on his foot steps.

Compare him with Ali(a.s.), he didnt attack Yemen, he talked yo them in days and persuaded them to accept Islam. not even a single person was killed....

So you're saying that in both Sunni and Shia they believe there will be 12 caliphs and that the first 3 caliphs in Sunni Islam were also from Muhammad's bloodline? Are the first 3 caliphs in Shia Islam different? Can you give me a list of caliphs from both Sunni and Shia so I can see where they differ?

Wasn't there a battle involving the sons of Ali?

Aren't the modern descendants of Muhammad part of Jordan's Royal Family?
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
So you're saying that in both Sunni and Shia they believe there will be 12 caliphs and that the first 3 caliphs in Sunni Islam were also from Muhammad's bloodline? Are the first 3 caliphs in Shia Islam different? Can you give me a list of caliphs from both Sunni and Shia so I can see where they differ?

Wasn't there a battle involving the sons of Ali?

Aren't the modern descendants of Muhammad part of Jordan's Royal Family?
Check out this website for Sunni list of Caliphs, as I said, they dont have any authentic Hadith which specifies the successors, they just guess the successors. almost all the sunnis agree that Abubakt, Umar,Usman and Ali and Mahdi are among the successors.

Hadith of the Twelve Successors - Wikipedia

In Shia islam, here are the successors of prophet (pbuh).
1.Ali
2.Hasan the son of Ali
3.Husain the son of Ali
4. Ali the son of Husain. nicknamed Sajjad.
5.Muhammad the son of Ali(Sajjad). nicknamed Baagir.
6. Jafar the son of Baagir.
.....
12.Mahdi
Different groups of Shia Muslims argue on 7,8,9,10 and 11.
For twelvers, all are known and specified.
7.Musa nicknamed Kazem
8. Ali nicknamed Ridha
9. Muhammad nicknamed Javad
10.Ali, nicknamed Nagi
11.Hasan nicknamed Askari

The first three Sunni Caliphs, were from Quraish. Muhammad,pbuh was also from Quraish. they all had the same tribe and had the bloodline of Quraish tribe. Ali, was also from Quraish and was prophet's cousin.
Hasan and Husain and the rest successors was not only from Quraish but also the grand childeren of Muhammad,pbuh as Ali had got married with Fatimah, the daughter of prophet,pbuh.

There was not any battle between Ali's sons! Hasan, Husain, Abbas and the rest brothers had supported eachother.

The descendants of prophet,pbuh are in fact from his, pbuh, daughter(s) as he,pbuh didnt have any adult sons. amonge Shia Muslims, the descendants of prophet are can be verfied by names or clothing.e.g. black hat for scholars. e.g. Ayat ollah Khameneei the sprime leader of Iran.

I am not sure if Jordan prince is the dscedant of prophet,pbuh or not.
Nowdays every body can almost claim anything.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Check out this website for Sunni list of Caliphs, as I said, they dont have any authentic Hadith which specifies the successors, they just guess the successors. almost all the sunnis agree that Abubakt, Umar,Usman and Ali and Mahdi are among the successors.

Hadith of the Twelve Successors - Wikipedia

In Shia islam, here are the successors of prophet (pbuh).
1.Ali
2.Hasan the son of Ali
3.Husain the son of Ali
4. Ali the son of Husain. nicknamed Sajjad.
5.Muhammad the son of Ali(Sajjad). nicknamed Baagir.
6. Jafar the son of Baagir.
.....
12.Mahdi
Different groups of Shia Muslims argue on 7,8,9,10 and 11.
For twelvers, all are known and specified.
7.Musa nicknamed Kazem
8. Ali nicknamed Ridha
9. Muhammad nicknamed Javad
10.Ali, nicknamed Nagi
11.Hasan nicknamed Askari

The first three Sunni Caliphs, were from Quraish. Muhammad,pbuh was also from Quraish. they all had the same tribe and had the bloodline of Quraish tribe. Ali, was also from Quraish and was prophet's cousin.
Hasan and Husain and the rest successors was not only from Quraish but also the grand childeren of Muhammad,pbuh as Ali had got married with Fatimah, the daughter of prophet,pbuh.

There was not any battle between Ali's sons! Hasan, Husain, Abbas and the rest brothers had supported eachother.

The descendants of prophet,pbuh are in fact from his, pbuh, daughter(s) as he,pbuh didnt have any adult sons. amonge Shia Muslims, the descendants of prophet are can be verfied by names or clothing.e.g. black hat for scholars. e.g. Ayat ollah Khameneei the sprime leader of Iran.

I am not sure if Jordan prince is the dscedant of prophet,pbuh or not.
Nowdays every body can almost claim anything.

I meant that Hassan and Hussein were killed in battle against Sunnis weren't they?
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
I meant that Hassan and Hussein were killed in battle against Sunnis weren't they?
with the existing definition for Sunni, yes almost all the successors from the second successor(Hasan) to eleventh successor(Hasan al-askari), were killed by Sunni Muslims(or at least non-Shia Muslims).
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
By the way, Hasan was not killed in a war. most of the successors were poisoned by venom.
They had got fans among people and people would fight for them. thus, the best way to kill them was to kill them by poison
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
By the way, Hasan was not killed in a war. most of the successors were poisoned by venom.
They had got fans among people and people would fight for them. thus, the best way to kill them was to kill them by poison

There was the Battle of the Camel which was between Sunni and Shia wasn't there?

And the Battle of Karbala was also where Shia Hussein was killed?

I don't really understand the difference in succesorship of Prophet Muhammad as you claim even the Sunnis believe that the first few Caliphs were from Muhammad's bloodline but Shias reject them; I thought Shias believed Muhammad's successors were from his bloodline so why do they reject the first few Caliphs?

Both Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi and Jordan's Royal family claim to be descendants of Muhammad. What role does the Ayatollah play?
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
There was the Battle of the Camel which was between Sunni and Shia wasn't there?

And the Battle of Karbala was also where Shia Hussein was killed?

I don't really understand the difference in succesorship of Prophet Muhammad as you claim even the Sunnis believe that the first few Caliphs were from Muhammad's bloodline but Shias reject them; I thought Shias believed Muhammad's successors were from his bloodline so why do they reject the first few Caliphs?

Both Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi and Jordan's Royal family claim to be descendants of Muhammad. What role does the Ayatollah play?

Look, Shia Muslims follow the specified successors. they are followed by us as successors not because they are just from Muhammad's(pbuh) bloodline, but because they are specified by Muhammad(pbuh) and God. Ali, had many sons, however only Hasan and Husain had been chosen. Husain had got a couple of sons however the second son had been chosen as the next successor. and.....

Blood line is important, however, it is not the only parameter. knowledge, honesty, faith, abilities, cleverness, wisdom are also important to fit such a position(the successor of Muhammad(pbuh) ).
The few first Caliphs are rejected by us, because they betrayed Muhammad(pbuh) by ignoring his(pbuh) order. prophed(pbuh) had several times ordered people to follow Ali after his death as a successor.

The caliphs, betrayed Ali and Muhammad(pbuh) and did what ever they wanted.

Umar was an angry warrior who used to lose his temper over nothing and attack people. how can such aaperson person be followed as the successor?!
Abubakr and Umar could not answer simple questions from Quran, how could they be the successor of a prophet?!
Compare them with the specified successors who not onlu had the bloodline of Quraish, but also were the grand childeren of Muhammad(pbuh)[excrpt Ali who was his cousin] and the source of knowledge and abilities.
Imam al-Sadiq(the honest), the sixth successor, was the teacher of top Sunni scholars such as Abuhanife and Malek.
Imam Malek says: no eyes have seen and no ears have heard of a person, who be better than Jafar as-Safiq in knowledge and faith.

Compre Ali and his successors' knowledge with of those Sunni Caliphs who just used their swards against innocent people.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Look, Shia Muslims follow the specified successors. they are followed by us as successors not because they are just from Muhammad's(pbuh) bloodline, but because they are specified by Muhammad(pbuh) and God. Ali, had many sons, however only Hasan and Husain had been chosen. Husain had got a couple of sons however the second son had been chosen as the next successor. and.....

Blood line is important, however, it is not the only parameter. knowledge, honesty, faith, abilities, cleverness, wisdom are also important to fit such a position(the successor of Muhammad(pbuh) ).
The few first Caliphs are rejected by us, because they betrayed Muhammad(pbuh) by ignoring his(pbuh) order. prophed(pbuh) had several times ordered people to follow Ali after his death as a successor.

The caliphs, betrayed Ali and Muhammad(pbuh) and did what ever they wanted.

Umar was an angry warrior who used to lose his temper over nothing and attack people. how can such aaperson person be followed as the successor?!
Abubakr and Umar could not answer simple questions from Quran, how could they be the successor of a prophet?!
Compare them with the specified successors who not onlu had the bloodline of Quraish, but also were the grand childeren of Muhammad(pbuh)[excrpt Ali who was his cousin] and the source of knowledge and abilities.
Imam al-Sadiq(the honest), the sixth successor, was the teacher of top Sunni scholars such as Abuhanife and Malek.
Imam Malek says: no eyes have seen and no ears have heard of a person, who be better than Jafar as-Safiq in knowledge and faith.

Compre Ali and his successors' knowledge with of those Sunni Caliphs who just used their swards against innocent people.

There was the Battle of the Camel which was between Sunni and Shia wasn't there?

And the Battle of Karbala was also where Shia Hussein was killed?
 

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
There was the Battle of the Camel which was between Sunni and Shia wasn't there?

And the Battle of Karbala was also where Shia Hussein was killed?

Sunni and Shia definitions have been changed during the agaes. In Karbala the battle was between Shia and Sunni with the existing definition. the battle in which Husain and his followers were killed in the worst possible way.

In Camel war, it can be said that, the enemies of Ali were Sunni. however, his army was a composite of Shia and Sunni by the existing definition.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Sunni and Shia definitions have been changed during the agaes. In Karbala the battle was between Shia and Sunni with the existing definition. the battle in which Husain and his followers were killed in the worst possible way.

In Camel war, it can be said that, the enemies of Ali were Sunni. however, his army was a composite of Shia and Sunni by the existing definition.

What were those two battles about? Why were they fought?

What is the job of a Caliph?

Why did Sunnis fight Shia in the battle of Karbala and the Camel war?
 

zahra67

Active Member
What were those two battles about? Why were they fought?

What is the job of a Caliph?

Why did Sunnis fight Shia in the battle of Karbala and the Camel war?
Imam Husayn and preserving the monotheistic tradition by translating it into a demand for justice and dignity
Had Imam Husayn paid allegiance to Yazid, the message of God would have been entirely lost. Husayn was the representative of the line of tawhid, purity, honesty, and obedience to God. If he paid allegiance, the people would have been completely confused and gone astray; there would have been no hope for guidance afterwards. However, Yazid was determined to have the allegiance of Husayn. He pressured Walid, the governor of Medina, to have Imam Husayn pledge allegiance (bay‘at).
This facilitated the event of Karbala whose roots go back to the time of the demise of the Prophet, if not even earlier.
In response to Yazid’s demand, Imam Husayn replied to the governor of Medina:
O governor! We are the People of the Prophet’s House, and we are descendants of the Prophet. Yazid is a drunkard who murders without reason, and a person like me does not pay allegiance to a person like him.
It is not a matter of personal battle, but rather a matter of two separate ideologies. How could Husayn give legitimacy to Yazid and become his follower? Allegiance would mean that Imam Husayn and his followers would become Yazid’s followers. This means the end of Islam. The next morning, the governor’s deputy found Imam Husayn at the grave of Prophet Muhammad and advised the Imam to pay allegiance because it was safer for his life. Imam Husayn replied, “We belong to God and to Him do we return. If Muslim nation is to be ruled by a leader like Yazid, say goodbye to Islam. I have heard from my grandfather, the Messenger of God, say, ‘Caliphate is forbidden for the family of Abu Sufyan.’”
Moreover, the destruction of Islam would have marked the end of the divine plan for establishing an ideal society, the facilitation of happiness and mankind’s salvation as a whole since there were no prophets to come. The Imam was faced with the challenge of either accepting Yazid’s request or resisting and willing to sacrifice his life. We all know that Husayn was not attached to the material world; neither did he have concern for his personal life. None of the Imams feared sacrificing themselves for God.
Husayn was the only one at that time who could save the Ummah. He was the only one to end the deviation, whether by accepting martyrdom or protecting his life if he could oppose Yazid without being killed. Due to the escalating situation, it became clear that he had no other choice but to give his life; by doing so, he was better able to serve Islam. Husayn’s life was very productive, constructive, powerful, and inspirational for people. But sometimes there comes a day that a person like Husayn is killed to sacrifice his life to protect the religion of God. He said, “Don't you see that the truth is not followed and the falsehood is not refrained from? The situation is so severe that a believer wishes to meet God (i.e. to die). And today I do not see death but as a prosperity, and living with tyrants is nothing but disgrace.”
I humbly request everyone, whether a Shi‘a, Sunni, or non-Muslim, to explore the reasons why Husayn reached this conclusion. He lost his life and many members of the community were killed, including some of the best companions of the Ahlul Bayt. The women and children endured much trouble and hardship. But there was one thing that was greater than all of these sacrifices: God’s pleasure.
The Ahlul Bayt did their best to preserve and save the teachings of Islam. Islam is greater than Husayn. Islam is greater than the children of Husayn. All were ready to sacrifice themselves for Islam to safeguard the message of God for the establishment of an ideal society. If Husayn had not opposed Yazid and had not been martyred as a result, there would no trace of Islam today.
Yazid ruled for a little over three years and committed many crimes that included three major ones: he attacked Mecca, he attacked Medina, and he killed Imam Husayn and seventy-two of his companions. It was only through the sacrifice of Husayn that people were awakened to the real problem and the true colors of the ruler.
Imam Husayn had made his stance clear enough to remind us of the Prophet’s mission. The Prophet strived to awaken the people’s conscience and teach morality through observing tawhid. After the Prophet’s demise, it was difficult for some people to know whom to follow, who was right and who was wrong. Imam Husayn brought such clarity to the issue such that after him, this issue no longer existed.
No one could say that the incident of Karbala resulted from two groups of Muslims disagreeing with regards to the Islamic position and therefore each acted upon his own ijtihad, or personal scholarly opinion.
The situation became so clear that the battle was between those who had humanity and those who lacked it. It was between the people who were committed to Islam and its values and those who were egotistical. No one can say that what ‘Umar ibn Sa‘d – the commander of Yazid’s army– did to the women and children was because of a mistake in ijtihad. It was clearly kufr (disobedience).
Imam Husayn managed to clearly show people the distinction between the truth and falsehood, between a virtuous and immoral life. Anyone who is familiar with the event of Karbala, regardless of the person’s religious affiliation, cannot be indifferent to what happened in Karbala; he or she would certainly sympathize with Imam Husayn. Any rational person would believe the beauties exhibited in the camp of Imam Husayn to be appreciated, the mercilessness of the opposite camp to be condemned, and the capacity for people to become so brutal and be led astray needs to be acknowledged.
Imam Husayn 1) preserved the teachings of Islam, and 2) opened a channel for Islam to reach the people’s hearts. As soon as people hear of the movement of Imam Husayn, they sympathize. They also realize that justice and dignity are the most important qualities. Who proved this better than Husayn? If you were to give your life for the sake of justice and dignity, you are victorious. And powerful, murderous, unjust oppressors will themselves be humiliated and will lose both this world and the hereafter.
Husayn, the Saviour of Islam
 

zahra67

Active Member
What were those two battles about? Why were they fought?

What is the job of a Caliph?

Why did Sunnis fight Shia in the battle of Karbala and the Camel war?
the people who martyred imam husayn were not sunni.
because both shia and sunni muslims, honor progeny of prophet mohammad, respect them and love them according to verse 23 of chapter 42 and narrations of prophet Mohammad (blessings of God upon him and his progeny)
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Imam Husayn and preserving the monotheistic tradition by translating it into a demand for justice and dignity
Had Imam Husayn paid allegiance to Yazid, the message of God would have been entirely lost. Husayn was the representative of the line of tawhid, purity, honesty, and obedience to God. If he paid allegiance, the people would have been completely confused and gone astray; there would have been no hope for guidance afterwards. However, Yazid was determined to have the allegiance of Husayn. He pressured Walid, the governor of Medina, to have Imam Husayn pledge allegiance (bay‘at).
This facilitated the event of Karbala whose roots go back to the time of the demise of the Prophet, if not even earlier.
In response to Yazid’s demand, Imam Husayn replied to the governor of Medina:
O governor! We are the People of the Prophet’s House, and we are descendants of the Prophet. Yazid is a drunkard who murders without reason, and a person like me does not pay allegiance to a person like him.
It is not a matter of personal battle, but rather a matter of two separate ideologies. How could Husayn give legitimacy to Yazid and become his follower? Allegiance would mean that Imam Husayn and his followers would become Yazid’s followers. This means the end of Islam. The next morning, the governor’s deputy found Imam Husayn at the grave of Prophet Muhammad and advised the Imam to pay allegiance because it was safer for his life. Imam Husayn replied, “We belong to God and to Him do we return. If Muslim nation is to be ruled by a leader like Yazid, say goodbye to Islam. I have heard from my grandfather, the Messenger of God, say, ‘Caliphate is forbidden for the family of Abu Sufyan.’”
Moreover, the destruction of Islam would have marked the end of the divine plan for establishing an ideal society, the facilitation of happiness and mankind’s salvation as a whole since there were no prophets to come. The Imam was faced with the challenge of either accepting Yazid’s request or resisting and willing to sacrifice his life. We all know that Husayn was not attached to the material world; neither did he have concern for his personal life. None of the Imams feared sacrificing themselves for God.
Husayn was the only one at that time who could save the Ummah. He was the only one to end the deviation, whether by accepting martyrdom or protecting his life if he could oppose Yazid without being killed. Due to the escalating situation, it became clear that he had no other choice but to give his life; by doing so, he was better able to serve Islam. Husayn’s life was very productive, constructive, powerful, and inspirational for people. But sometimes there comes a day that a person like Husayn is killed to sacrifice his life to protect the religion of God. He said, “Don't you see that the truth is not followed and the falsehood is not refrained from? The situation is so severe that a believer wishes to meet God (i.e. to die). And today I do not see death but as a prosperity, and living with tyrants is nothing but disgrace.”
I humbly request everyone, whether a Shi‘a, Sunni, or non-Muslim, to explore the reasons why Husayn reached this conclusion. He lost his life and many members of the community were killed, including some of the best companions of the Ahlul Bayt. The women and children endured much trouble and hardship. But there was one thing that was greater than all of these sacrifices: God’s pleasure.
The Ahlul Bayt did their best to preserve and save the teachings of Islam. Islam is greater than Husayn. Islam is greater than the children of Husayn. All were ready to sacrifice themselves for Islam to safeguard the message of God for the establishment of an ideal society. If Husayn had not opposed Yazid and had not been martyred as a result, there would no trace of Islam today.
Yazid ruled for a little over three years and committed many crimes that included three major ones: he attacked Mecca, he attacked Medina, and he killed Imam Husayn and seventy-two of his companions. It was only through the sacrifice of Husayn that people were awakened to the real problem and the true colors of the ruler.
Imam Husayn had made his stance clear enough to remind us of the Prophet’s mission. The Prophet strived to awaken the people’s conscience and teach morality through observing tawhid. After the Prophet’s demise, it was difficult for some people to know whom to follow, who was right and who was wrong. Imam Husayn brought such clarity to the issue such that after him, this issue no longer existed.
No one could say that the incident of Karbala resulted from two groups of Muslims disagreeing with regards to the Islamic position and therefore each acted upon his own ijtihad, or personal scholarly opinion.
The situation became so clear that the battle was between those who had humanity and those who lacked it. It was between the people who were committed to Islam and its values and those who were egotistical. No one can say that what ‘Umar ibn Sa‘d – the commander of Yazid’s army– did to the women and children was because of a mistake in ijtihad. It was clearly kufr (disobedience).
Imam Husayn managed to clearly show people the distinction between the truth and falsehood, between a virtuous and immoral life. Anyone who is familiar with the event of Karbala, regardless of the person’s religious affiliation, cannot be indifferent to what happened in Karbala; he or she would certainly sympathize with Imam Husayn. Any rational person would believe the beauties exhibited in the camp of Imam Husayn to be appreciated, the mercilessness of the opposite camp to be condemned, and the capacity for people to become so brutal and be led astray needs to be acknowledged.
Imam Husayn 1) preserved the teachings of Islam, and 2) opened a channel for Islam to reach the people’s hearts. As soon as people hear of the movement of Imam Husayn, they sympathize. They also realize that justice and dignity are the most important qualities. Who proved this better than Husayn? If you were to give your life for the sake of justice and dignity, you are victorious. And powerful, murderous, unjust oppressors will themselves be humiliated and will lose both this world and the hereafter.
Husayn, the Saviour of Islam

But wasn't the Battle of the Camel between Sunnis and Muhammad's wife against the Shias? What was the reason for this battle?

And with Karbala, was it Sunnis who were allied to Yazid?
 

mojtaba

Active Member
Assalamu Alaikum

I was wondering what Shias believe in because I keep forgetting! I hear they believe Caliph succession to Muhammad should only be through his descendants but if this is true, why does ISIS hate Shias as Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi is allegedly a descendant of Muhammad?
Aren't the modern day descendants of Muhammad part of Jordan's Royal Family???

Also i'd like to know what was the battle with Ali's sons about and between? As this is where there are tensions between Sunni and Shia?

To me Shia theology makes more sense than Sunni personally.
Peace to you.

Imamat (leadership) itself is what both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe in it. But, we differe with our Sunni brothers and sisters in details of it. Before talking about the details, I should say that in Shia faith, the term 'Imam' is more general than the term 'ruler'. So that, somthings like 'Jordan's Royal Family' or 'Royal blood' are meaningless in our faith. Indeed, Shi'ites believe in the chosen lineage which is the lineage of every Prophet, Messenger and Imam from Prophet Adam and Eve. This means that there is not any polytheist, disbeliever or adulterer in their lineage to Prophet Adam and Eve. Allah says: Indeed Allah chose Adam and Noah, and the progeny of Abraham and the progeny of Imran above all the nations; (33) some of them are descendants of the others, and Allah is all-hearing, all-knowing. (34)

1.Both Shia and Sunni Muslims believe that after Prophet (s) there would be 12 Imams who are the Successors of him (s).

2.We believe that the Imam is supported by God, so that he is infallible and the most knowledgeable man in the world. He does not need to any scholar about religious issues. Contrariwise, others need to him.
But Sunnis do not believe in infallibility of the Imam. Also, they do not believe that the Imam is the most knowledgeable man.

3.We believe that the Imam is chosen by Allah. But Sunnis believe that he can be chosen by one person, or a group of Muslims. Some Sunnis believe that an Imam (ruler) can take the power by forcing and killing, too.

4.We believe that the first chosen Imam whom Prophet Muhammad identified to Muslims is Ali bin Abi Talib, then his son, Al-Hasan, then the brother of Al-Hasan, Al-Husain, then Ali son of Al-Husain, then Muhammad son of Ali, then Ja'far son of Muhammad, then Musa the son of Ja'far, then Ali the son of Musa, then Muhammad son of Ali, then Ali son of Muhammad, then Al-Hasan son of Ali, then the son of Al-Hasan whose name is like the name of Prophet Muhammad and he is the promised Al-Mahdi (May Allah hasten his reappearance), peace be upon them all. Imam Al-Mahdi is alived and he is saved by Allah until the time of his reappearance to fill the earth with equity and justice as it has been filled with oppression and tyranny.
But Sunnis do not have any clear list of those 12 Imams. Between some lists, there are some tyrants and so sinful ones!

5.The rulers of the time of Imamat of the sons of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) like other rulers always feared to loose their power and because our Imams (as) were the best people of their times (Sunni books confirms this issue, too) and also the right of ruling was originally for them, those rulers killed them by the sword or poisen. Imam Al-Hasan like Imam Ali fought against hypocrite Mo'awiyah, and Mo'awiyah killed him by poisoning.
After Imam Al-Hasan (as), in the time of Imamat of Imam Al-Husain (as), many people of Kufa (a city in Iraq) invited Imam to their city because of giving allegiance to him and accepting him as their ruler. Imam Al-Husain sent one of his relaible families to investigate about the truth of their claim. He went to Kufa and after enough investigations, sent a messsage to Imam about their honesty. So that, Imam Al-Husain (as) because of guiltiness and tyranny of Yazid [son of Mu'awiyah and the Caliph of Islamic lands who was destroing Islam because of his guiltiness and corruptions] accepted their request and went to the Kufa. When Yazid became aware of this issue, sent an army to Kufa to force Imam Al-Husain for giving allegiance to Yazid. He also sent Ubaydullah bin Ziyad to Kufa as ruler of there. He frightened the people, and imprisoned or killed a group of them. When Imam Al-Husain was in Karbala, accepted not to go to Kufa, but he did not accept giving allegiance to a man like Yazid. Imam Al-Hasain did not accepted it for awaking all the Muslims. When Imam al-Husayn (as) refused to give allegiance to Yazid, the army of 'Umar b. Sa'd (commander of army of Yazid and Ubaydullah bin Ziyad) prepared to fight against him. Imam and his companions fought them until the martyrdom of themselves. After the mardyrdom of Imam Al-Husain and his companions in Karbala, Muslims became awake, so the corrupt and tyrannical government of Yazid and then Bani Umayyah were destroyed.

Best wishes!
 
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Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
Well, the Shia world is more diverse than the Sunni world, so there isn't a single statement that sums them all up but the majority (being Twelvers) could be summed up as:

1. We believe authority belongs with the prophet (PHUH) and his family - that Ali is second to the prophet (not Abu Bakr and his caliphate)
2. We have different accepted ahadith to Sunni's and share a different perspective on certain historical events
3. We honor Hassain and what he went through
4. We believe in the Imam's as interpreters (this changes between the schools though, Twelvers believe in the Twelve Imams, Ismaili's believe in a very different succession diverting from the seventh, etc)
5. We lean towards the esoteric interpretation of the Qur'an more than Sunni's (in the sense that we shun taking everything as literal - as abused by the Sunni Wahhabi's for example)
 
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