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How do Jehovah's witnesses look at astral projection?And lucid dreaming?

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
How do Jehovah's witnesses look at astral projection and lucid dreaming?As a Methodist I think it is demons.What do Jehovah's witnesses think demons do to make astral projection and lucid dreaming work?
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Why would you think lucid dreams are Satanic? I have done deeds of charity and asked for prayers in a lucid dream, I knew was a dream, while dreaming, and seen virtuous deeds from others.

How is that anything Demonic?o_O
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Holy Scripture groups the practice of spiritsm to "works of the flesh:"

"Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, idolatry, spiritism."-Galatians 5:19-20.

There are so many forms and practices of spiritism that Jehovah's Witnesses in their literature do not touch on all its forms. Astral projection and lucid dreaming are not mentioned in Jehovah's Witness literature. So using your Bible trained conscience you can figure out if it is acceptable to God or not.

There is one mention of "astral projection" in Witness literature I found and it is here:

Yoga Peril
◆ On June 1, Robert Antosczcyk, a yoga teacher in Ann Arbor, Michigan, secluded himself in his room, telling acquaintances that he was going to attempt astral projection. In this state, supposedly one’s “soul” travels through the universe’s “astral plane.” However, two days later twenty-nine-year-old Antosczcyk was dead. His body was discovered in a yoga posture assumed in deep meditation. Reportedly, the young man’s health had been excellent and he was not a drinker, smoker or drug user. Though pathologists did not know why he had died, one suggested that Antosczcyk may have entered a state of meditation so deep that his heart had slowed down greatly and was unable to pump sufficient blood to the brain.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101975808#h=12

It would seem to me that both what you mentioned are used to try and connect with the spirit world in some fashion. Jehovah strictly forbids all forms of spiritsm. He says that such ones are outside his spiritual paradise and will not inherit God's kingdom:

For example that scripture I quoted above in Galatians finishes off in verse 21:

"I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."-Galatians 5:21.

Revelation 21:8 says:

"But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”

The word spiritsm comes from the Greek pharmekia. The most common words in use in the English language from that are things related to druggery such as pharmaceuticals, and pharmacy etc. Pharmekia is druggery, sorcery.

Astral projection is clearly a spiritstic practice. And should be shunned. As should all forms of trying to contact the spirit realm through either direct or indirect, through spirit mediums, means.

That would also include praying to anyone aside from the true God Jehovah.

Jehovah says he is the hearer of prayer:

"O Hearer of prayer, to you people of all sorts will come."-Psalm 65:2.

Even in visions that the prophets were given, when a servant of God tried to give them undo honor the angels rejected it. For example in John's vision he tried to worship the angel giving him his vision. Notice the reaction of the angel:

"At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”-Revelation 19:10.

The angel humbly acknowledged he was only a fellow slave of John and his brothers (the rest of the 144,000).
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Holy Scripture groups the practice of spiritsm to "works of the flesh:"

"Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, idolatry, spiritism."-Galatians 5:19-20.

There are so many forms and practices of spiritism that Jehovah's Witnesses in their literature do not touch on all its forms. Astral projection and lucid dreaming are not mentioned in Jehovah's Witness literature. So using your Bible trained conscience you can figure out if it is acceptable to God or not.

There is one mention of "astral projection" in Witness literature I found and it is here:

Yoga Peril
◆ On June 1, Robert Antosczcyk, a yoga teacher in Ann Arbor, Michigan, secluded himself in his room, telling acquaintances that he was going to attempt astral projection. In this state, supposedly one’s “soul” travels through the universe’s “astral plane.” However, two days later twenty-nine-year-old Antosczcyk was dead. His body was discovered in a yoga posture assumed in deep meditation. Reportedly, the young man’s health had been excellent and he was not a drinker, smoker or drug user. Though pathologists did not know why he had died, one suggested that Antosczcyk may have entered a state of meditation so deep that his heart had slowed down greatly and was unable to pump sufficient blood to the brain.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101975808#h=12

It would seem to me that both what you mentioned are used to try and connect with the spirit world in some fashion. Jehovah strictly forbids all forms of spiritsm. He says that such ones are outside his spiritual paradise and will not inherit God's kingdom:

For example that scripture I quoted above in Galatians finishes off in verse 21:

"I am forewarning you about these things, the same way I already warned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom."-Galatians 5:21.

Revelation 21:8 says:

"But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This means the second death.”

The word spiritsm comes from the Greek pharmekia. The most common words in use in the English language from that are things related to druggery such as pharmaceuticals, and pharmacy etc. Pharmekia is druggery, sorcery.

Astral projection is clearly a spiritstic practice. And should be shunned. As should all forms of trying to contact the spirit realm through either direct or indirect, through spirit mediums, means.

That would also include praying to anyone aside from the true God Jehovah.

Jehovah says he is the hearer of prayer:

"O Hearer of prayer, to you people of all sorts will come."-Psalm 65:2.

Even in visions that the prophets were given, when a servant of God tried to give them undo honor the angels rejected it. For example in John's vision he tried to worship the angel giving him his vision. Notice the reaction of the angel:

"At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”-Revelation 19:10.

The angel humbly acknowledged he was only a fellow slave of John and his brothers (the rest of the 144,000).
Not true! There are multiple incidents in Scripture where people on earth interacted with Heavenly beings other than God, and it wasn't sinful!

And nothing in Scripture says that every belief must be supported in Scripture to be sanctioned and okay with God!

I talk to Heavenly beings with God in Heaven, in an alliance with God, and it isn't Spiritism or sinful, it was the practice of the early Christians!
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Why would you think lucid dreams are Satanic? I have done deeds of charity and asked for prayers in a lucid dream, I knew was a dream, while dreaming, and seen virtuous deeds from others.

How is that anything Demonic?o_O

Do you think lucid dreaming is becoming more accepted by christians?:(
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Not true! There are multiple incidents in Scripture where people on earth interacted with Heavenly beings other than God, and it wasn't sinful!

And nothing in Scripture says that every belief must be supported in Scripture to be sanctioned and okay with God!

I talk to Heavenly beings with God in Heaven, in an alliance with God, and it isn't Spiritism or sinful, it was the practice of the early Christians!

In 1 Samuel 28:6 it says saul talked to God in his dreams before god stopped doing it.Because of saul's sin.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Not true! There are multiple incidents in Scripture where people on earth interacted with Heavenly beings other than God, and it wasn't sinful!

And nothing in Scripture says that every belief must be supported in Scripture to be sanctioned and okay with God!

I talk to Heavenly beings with God in Heaven, in an alliance with God, and it isn't Spiritism or sinful, it was the practice of the early Christians!

We just watched a movie with Daniel, and how the angels appeared to him. But if you noticed in the account Daniel always directed his prayers to Jehovah God. And that is what got him thrown into the lion's den.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
In 1 Samuel 28:6 it says saul talked to God in his dreams before god stopped doing it.Because of saul's sin.

That scripture says that God did not communicate with Saul in dreams.

But scripture does say that Saul did become a prophet, before he became king:

(1 Samuel 19:23, 24) . . .While Saul was on his way from there to Naiʹoth in Raʹmah, the spirit of God came upon him as well, and he walked along behaving as a prophet until he came into Naiʹoth in Raʹmah. 24 He also stripped off his garments, and he too behaved as a prophet before Samuel, and he lay there naked all that day and all that night. That is why they say: “Is Saul also among the prophets?”
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Do you think lucid dreaming is becoming more accepted by christians?:(
Yes, but a lucid dream is simply a dream you know is a dream during the dream.

I have had dreams of that nature where I was doing good things. I fail to see anything Satanic. It would seem silly to suggest them as demonic.

I think I did have a demonic lucid dream though that wasn't that long ago.

A creature with the head similar to a dog was, sinking its fangs into my flesh, and I could feel it's fangs in my flesh with physical pain.

I actually knew it was a dream, and I didn't like the dream, so I was trying to wake up from the dream, but I couldn't do it.

There was a priest in the dream, and I asked him to do an exorcism for me.

I kept trying to wake up from the dream, and I felt like my brain was leaping around inside of my skull, with no ability to wake up from the dream that I knew was a dream at the time.

When I finally woke up from the dream, I was falling off my bed, and I jumped up to use the restroom.

My roommate at the time, jumped up in the air shrieking like he had a malevolent spirit too. I'm pretty sure that dream was demonic attack. But I have had other lucid dreams, where I was doing nice things for people, and it wasn't demonic.

The Devil attacks holy people, because they do him more damage, are more of a threat than average, so having demonic attacks while sleeping and vulnerable, is not a sign that a person is unholy. Even Jesus was visited and tempted by Satan.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Yes, but a lucid dream is simply a dream you know is a dream during the dream.

I have had dreams of that nature where I was doing good things. I fail to see anything Satanic. It would seem silly to suggest them as demonic.

I think I did have a demonic lucid dream though that wasn't that long ago.

A creature with the head similar to a dog was, sinking its fangs into my flesh, and I could feel it's fangs in my flesh with physical pain.

I actually knew it was a dream, and I didn't like the dream, so I was trying to wake up from the dream, but I couldn't do it.

There was a priest in the dream, and I asked him to do an exorcism for me.

I kept trying to wake up from the dream, and I felt like my brain was leaping around inside of my skull, with no ability to wake up from the dream that I knew was a dream at the time.

When I finally woke up from the dream, I was falling off my bed, and I jumped up to use the restroom.

My roommate at the time, jumped up in the air shrieking like he had a malevolent spirit too. I'm pretty sure that dream was demonic attack. But I have had other lucid dreams, where I was doing nice things for people, and it wasn't demonic.

The Devil attacks holy people, because they do him more damage, are more of a threat than average, so having demonic attacks while sleeping and vulnerable, is not a sign that a person is unholy. Even Jesus was visited and tempted by Satan.

I understand lucid dreaming is where you are aware that you are dreaming, that in and of itself is not demonic. There are people who go after lucid dreaming the way they do meditation. And that is where they can get themselves into trouble. The demons are all too happy to help get involved with that.

Thanks for the personal experience. I have my own I perhaps may share with you eventually.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
We just watched a movie with Daniel, and how the angels appeared to him. But if you noticed in the account Daniel always directed his prayers to Jehovah God. And that is what got him thrown into the lion's den.
Mary interacted with the angel gabriel. Zechariah interacted with the angel. Saul interacted with the spirit of Samuel, and Samuel prophesied to him, and the prophecy came true. The apostles saw Jesus with Moses and elijah. The poor man Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom in the parable.

I said some of that stuff before, but I've seen you say more things about how it's wrong to communicate with souls in heaven, and nothing in scripture says that.

I've read the Bible from Genesis to revelation. The only condemnation of communication with the spirits of the dead, is necromancy, summoning spirits from Sheol. The Catholic Church forbids necromancy, summoning spirits, and holding seances as well.

Jesus brought a new covenant. We don't follow much of the old covenant anymore.

Even you do not follow the Old Testament. You don't Stone people for working on sabbath, you don't Stone adulterers, you don't commit genocide, therefore you do not follow the old testament, which says to do all of those things.

The Old Testament condemns summoning souls from Sheol, because we don't know if they are malevolent spirits. However, there are spirits in heaven as well.

I have experienced their help, prayers, and blessings, and they have helped me out tremendously. We are family.

I wouldn't be complete without them or have any love for God, because it was women in heaven that lead me to love God , fear him, and pray in Jesus name. How could they be demons, if they are leading me to love and fear God, and seek his will??.

I
prayed to God many times, and he did not help me grow in virtue like praying the rosary did. The Virgin Mary has helped me grow in charity, purity of heart, and overcome sins, far more than any other devotion I have ever practiced.

An enormous amount of miracles have taken place linked to Mary and the rosary, like the miracles of fatima, guadalupe, Lourdes France,
unlike any other miracles since the time of christ.

The greatest miracles I've ever read about since the time of Jesus Christ walking the earth and the apostles and paul, were miracles linked to apparitions of the blessed Virgin mary.

God is working through the mother of Jesus the Messiah, I have no doubt in my mind. Scripture says all generations will call Mary blessed.

Scripture says Mary is full of grace and blessed among women. Revelations chapter 12 talks about a woman in the sky, clothed with the sun, standing on the moon.

The Virgin Mary left a miraculous image on Juan Diego's Tilma, and it converted 15 million Aztecs at guadalupe. In the image she is standing on the Moon , clothed with the sun, as if to fulfill that Scripture. Scripture says those who keep the commandments of God, are children of this woman!


Scientists have examined the Tilma, and they say there's no painting or brush strokes on the cactus fibers, that there's no explanation for why that image is there.

It led to the conversion of much of Central and South America to convert to one single religion, that acknowledges Jesus as Lord and savior.

I see nothing wrong with having friends in high places , and friends in heaven, and Scripture doesn't say there is anything wrong with it either.

There's nothing in the Bible that condemns the practice! It was the practice of the early christians.

Nothing in the Bible says that every practice must be found in the Bible. Most of what Jesus taught and did, is not even found in scripture. The Bible says that if everything Jesus said and did was written down, a library could not contain it all.

The word of God is not limited to scripture.

Jesus Christ built a church. Jesus said " listen to the church". The Bible also says that God changes his mind. It's a direct quote from scripture. And thousands of years have passed since the Bible was written down. For all we know God has changed his mind since then. Google "God changed his mind, relented, repented of the evil he planned on doing to Israel".

The Holy Spirit told me that God changes his mind, and the scriptures tell me that God changes his mind.

Jesus didn't say to read the bible is all that important, and the first Christians were not Bible christians.

The church that Jesus Christ founded has always sanctioned having friendship with souls in heaven, since before Constantine, it was the practice before Constantine existed, and has been the practice ever since.

And I have already shown you that the belief that the dead are conscious of nothing, is found in Old Testament poetry not meant to be taken literally, and goes completely against other scripture verses, that make it very clear that the dead do go on living.

Not to mention, the greatest miracles since the time of Jesus Christ , are linked to apparitions of the blessed Virgin Mary.

The Holy Spirit has made it very clear to me, both inside the scriptures, and the Holy Spirit has spoken many times since the Catholic Church put together the Bible, through the saints, through Marian apparitions, and through many Prophets that have existed since scripture.

It is very clear to me that there are souls in heaven who pray for and bless the souls on earth.

Friendship with these souls is why I'm still alive today. And that is the only reason I pray to and bless God, because they led me to do so. And it is not spiritism either. Neither is it condemned in scripture.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
If you Google

Google "God changed his mind, relented, repented of the evil he planned on doing to Israel".

It is a direct quote from scripture, and it speaks volumes to me, through the Holy Spirit, about what it means. It means human beings can get God to change his mind through intercession. It's a beautiful thing!
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
That scripture says that God did not communicate with Saul in dreams.

But scripture does say that Saul did become a prophet, before he became king:

(1 Samuel 19:23, 24) . . .While Saul was on his way from there to Naiʹoth in Raʹmah, the spirit of God came upon him as well, and he walked along behaving as a prophet until he came into Naiʹoth in Raʹmah. 24 He also stripped off his garments, and he too behaved as a prophet before Samuel, and he lay there naked all that day and all that night. That is why they say: “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Samuel 28:6 - King James Version

If you follow this link it says God used to talk to saul in his dreams before he got to deep into sin.:)

I got all of this information right here: BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
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