How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[InChrist]

You are literally a human telling that there is a god who says things telling me to go listen to other humans, like yourself, claim that there is a god who says things. They are no more (or less) credible than you are.

God says…

And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:13


I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me.
Proverbs 8:17

I never would have thought to say these things, no human would.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh yes the biblical scriptures do claim repeatedly to be the word(s) of God. Numerous times the phrases, “word of the Lord” or “ word of God” are used in reference to information, commands, laws given by God to humans.

Okay. Let's see what you have.

Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now by this I know that you are a man of God, and that the word of the Lord in your mouth is the truth.” 1 Kings 17:24

That is your first example? It should have been your best. That says nothing about the Bible. It appears that you know nothing about the Bible. That does not refer to the Bible or even the Pentateuch at all.

And now, O Lord God of Israel, let Your word come true, which You have spoken to Your servant David. 2 Chronicles 6:17

Another failure.

As for God, His way is perfect; The word ofthe Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him. Psalm 18:30

And another.

Because they rebelled against the words ofGod, And despised the counsel of the Most High Psalm 107:11

The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. Isaiah 40:8


Thus speaks the Lord God of Israel, saying: ‘Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you. Jeremiah 30:2

Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God, “That I will send a famine on the land, Not a famine of bread, Nor a thirst for water, But of hearing the words of the Lord.
Amos 8:11


Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’ ” Luke 4:4


So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17


For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ. 2 Corinthians 2:17

But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 4:2

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

Wow! Every single one is a failure. None of those even refer to books in the Bible. It only makes vague claims about "the word of God".

Where does the Bible claim to be the word of God? You did not support your claim at all. Supposedly something exists somewhere that is the "word of God" but we have no idea what it is.

 

[ppp]

God says…

You claim that God says whatever.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You claim that God says whatever.

And the Bible, which was written by mere mortal men, claimed to speak for and represent God.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

An omniscient God does not change His mind as humans do for trivial reasons, trying something different, making a mistake, or other such reasons. God may change His response depending upon human choices and actions, but those always remain consistent with His unchanging Character of holiness, righteousness, goodness, love, mercy, and justice.


“The fact that God changes His treatment of us in response to our choices has nothing to do with His character. In fact, because God does not change, He must treat the righteous differently from the unrighteous. If someone repents, God consistently forgives; if someone refuses to repent, God consistently judges. He is unchanging in His nature, His plan, and His being. He cannot one day be pleased with the contrite and the next day be angry with the contrite. That would show Him to be mutable and untrustworthy. For God to tell Nineveh, “I’m going to judge you,” and then (after they repent) refuse to judge them may look like God changed His mind. In reality, God was simply staying true to His character. He loves mercy and forgives the penitent. “Has God forgotten to be merciful?” (Psalm 77:9). The answer is, no.”

I understand that everything you've written in response to my post is what you believe because you are a Christian. I honestly don't expect anything else.

Does God change His mind? | GotQuestions.org

Does God change His mind? What does the Bible mean when it says God changed His mind?

www.gotquestions.org

Interestingly, I've used the same site to illustrate contradictions in the Bible and to illustrate how this site implies that some Christians aren't true Christians.

 

[ppp]

And the Bible, which was written by mere mortal men, claimed to speak for and represent God.

Yep. The words of mortal mostly-men all around.

 

[InChrist]

And the Bible, which was written by mere mortal men, claimed to speak for and represent God.

Amazing, the way God used and inspired mere mortals to write His words….


…knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Amazing, the way God used and inspired mere mortals to write His words….


…knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:20-21

Frankly, I don't see what is so amazing about stories of a talking serpent, a talking donkey, and a man surviving for three days in the belly of a big fish. In my opinion, these stories are just as far-fetched as the ones people read in tabloid magazines. I see them as definitely far-fetched but not amazing. I don't think that these disturbing verses are amazing either: "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) and "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (I Samuel 15:3). And finally, this article, Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits, has several other examples of violence in the Bible.

 

[InChrist]

I understand that everything you've written in response to my post is what you believe because you are a Christian. I honestly don't expect anything else.

Yes, because I believe in and belong to Jesus. I’m sorry you have turned from His love for you.

Yet…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons… 1 Timothy 4:1

But there is always hope and help from Jesus Christ available.

 

[InChrist]

Frankly, I don't see what is so amazing about stories of a talking serpent, a talking donkey, and a man surviving for three days in the belly of a big fish. In my opinion, these stories are just as far-fetched as the ones people read in tabloid magazines. I see them as definitely far-fetched but not amazing. I don't think that these disturbing verses are amazing either: "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) and "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (I Samuel 15:3). And finally, this article, Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits, has several other examples of violence in the Bible.

If God is supernatural, a Being outside our physical realm, then miracles or events you refer to as far-fetched likely are no miracle or spectacular thing at all from His standpoint. Just because you think such things are impossible, doesn’t necessarily mean they are.

Of course the Bible has violence in it, because it’s a commentary and narrative of this fallen violent world engulfed by sin and separated from God.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, because I believe in and belong to Jesus. I’m sorry you have turned from His love for you.

Try not to be patronizing. It doesn't make a good impression, and neither does stating your Christian beliefs as if they are definitive facts.

Yet…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons… 1 Timothy 4:1

But there is always hope and help from Jesus Christ available.

Yet...

Again, what you've written is merely your personal beliefs rather than definitive facts to be stated as if they are absolute truth.

...it’s a commentary and narrative of this fallen violent world engulfed by sin and separated from God.

In your personal opinion, of course.

 

[InChrist]

Try not to be patronizing. It doesn't make a good impression, and neither does stating your Christian beliefs as if they are definitive facts.



Yet...

Again, what you've written is merely your personal beliefs rather than definitive facts to be stated as if they are absolute truth.



In your personal opinion, of course.

I’m being sincere, not patronizing.
Yes, everything I write are my personal beliefs, just as you write your beliefs.
Nevertheless, I would not state things that I don’t believe are true and factual.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yep. The words of mortal mostly-men all around.

with a few prophets mixed in, but as I understand it the prophets of the OT did not write the Bible, and we know Jesus did not write the NT.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I’m being sincere, not patronizing.

If you say so, however, I have my doubts.

Yes, everything I write are my personal beliefs, just as you write your beliefs.
Nevertheless, I would not state things that I don’t believe are true and factual.

I see that the difference between how you and I state our respective spiritual beliefs is that whenever I state mine or my personal opinions, I include "I believe," "I think," "In my opinion," or a similar phrase to indicate that what I've written are my beliefs and opinions, which is in accordance with Rule 8.

 

[InChrist]

If you say so, however, I have my doubts.



I see that the difference between how you and I state our respective spiritual beliefs is that whenever I state mine or my personal opinions, I include "I believe," "I think," "In my opinion," or a similar phrase to indicate that what I've written are my beliefs and opinions, which is in accordance with Rule 8.

Thanks for the reminder. I do try to include“ I believe”, “ I think”, or “My perspective”, but at times forget. If this offends you, I sincerely apologize.

 

[InChrist]

Okay. Let's see what you have.

That is your first example? It should have been your best. That says nothing about the Bible. It appears that you know nothing about the Bible. That does not refer to the Bible or even the Pentateuch at all.

Another failure.

And another.

Wow! Every single one is a failure. None of those even refer to books in the Bible. It only makes vague claims about "the word of God".

Where does the Bible claim to be the word of God? You did not support your claim at all. Supposedly something exists somewhere that is the "word of God" but we have no idea what it is.

The meticulous Hebrew scribes considered the OT scriptures to be the words of God, as did the Apostles and early churches. As well, the NT writings/letters/accounts which were shared amongst the churches were considered inspired by God . I think that gives me a valid idea about what the Bible/ Word of God is, rather than the opinion of a current day atheist. No personal offense intended, just very different views.

 

[ppp]

with a few prophets mixed in

so claimed by mortals

 

[blü 2]

I agree, which is what I try to do. I try to emulate CHRIST. Hence the term CHRISTIAN.

You put down that whip and leave them moneychangers alone, y'hear?

And stop killin' them poor fig trees!

And no more pigs over the cliff!

But I'm glad we can agree about the rest.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The meticulous Hebrew scribes considered the OT scriptures to be the words of God, as did the Apostles and early churches. As well, the NT writings/letters/accounts which were shared amongst the churches were considered inspired by God . I think that gives me a valid idea about what the Bible/ Word of God is, rather than the opinion of a current day atheist. No personal offense intended, just very different views.

So what? Other scribes in other religions thought that of their writings. None of those indicate that the Bible itself is the world of God. In fact unless they had a time machine their claims could only refer to what was written before that.

So even by your weak claims your beliefs are not justified and you definitely failed when it came to the Bible itself.

You only believe that the Bible is the word of God. The problem with your approach is that you cannot correct any of the many errors in the Bible.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thank you for the clarification. It's just that the morality of the God of the bible is so alien to my own values. 'Divine law' would appear not only to countenance but to order such things as invasive war, massacres of surrendered populations, mass rape, human sacrifice, murderous religious intolerance, women as property, slavery as normal, and so on.

My own view is that it would be good if we could treat each other with decency, respect, inclusion and common sense instead.

The Bible implies that God is capable of hatred in addition to wrath, jealousy, and killing with impunity. To be honest, I believe that a lot of Christians are misguided for focusing solely on his alleged love, mercy, and kindness while ignoring other scriptures that show his hatred, anger, wrath, and jealousy. To be honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of morality, love, or justice from the Bible. In my opinion, all you need to do is read it (the Old Testament in particular) to understand why I think that. Speaking as a former Christian and survivor of childhood abuse, I view God as a narcissistic and abusive parent who only "loves" you when you do or say precisely what they want. And you hope that if you don't make them angry, they won't harm you, but you're unsure because they have a violent temper and are known to lash out when they're angry. So if you disobey them and make them angry, then there will be hell to pay. That isn't a relationship based on unconditional love and respect, but rather one based on fear and mistrust.

If God exists, then I don't believe that he is worthy of my love, respect, and reverence, let alone my praise and worship. I do believe, however, that he has rightly earned my contempt. I wasted forty years of my life earnestly praying to him and having false hope in him. If he exists, then apparently he doesn't consider me worthy of his time, and I now don't consider him worthy of mine. I've renounced my belief in God, which has resulted in my emotional healing and significantly improved my life. I finally feel peace and joy in my life. Since leaving Christianity, I've realized that I don't need to believe in God to be a good person, to make moral decisions, or to rely on God to provide for me or my family. I now realize that my belief in God was an emotional crutch, and I no longer need it. Finally, I'd like to say that despite my criticism of the Bible and belief that it shouldn't be relied on for moral guidance, I take whatever is written within it with a grain of salt. In my opinion, it contains multiple contradictions (see here for example), as well as stories of Jesus that were copied and adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate both the Bible and Christianity, as I explained in other posts, such as this one.