I'd think both would be living hell, but being a vampire would certainly be a lot more awesome!! :dracula:
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How can anyone ever deserve eternal punishment?
- Thread starter HoldemDB9
- Start date
I'd think both would be living hell, but being a vampire would certainly be a lot more awesome!! :dracula:
Dezzie
Well-Known Member
I don't believe any one really deserves eternal punishment either. Reason being is because well... if it were me and I did things wrong in my life, I would eventually understand what I did wrong and would be deeply sorry for the sins I commited. I don't think God would damn someone eternally if they eventually feel awful for doing what they did on earth. God knows when we mean something from the heart and if a sinner in Hell truly was sorry, from the heart, God should give him a chance to pursue the travel to Heaven. That's just me though.
Dezzie
Well-Known Member
I'd think both would be living hell, but being a vampire would certainly be a lot more awesome!! :dracula:
:yes: Vampires are awesome. haha
If mankind realised their offense is against God, by violating his Holy law and that they had a life time to repent and turn to God so that he might restore them
there would be no fear of hell.
Slavation is a free for all, but men like children want to rebel and do things thei way and Hell will be what they wanted in this life..separation from God.
OBLIVION: A state of being completely unaware of oneself or ones surroundings.
Quote...StripperClown--If you're in a state of nothingness, but still conscious.
Silly, silly statement, how can 'nothing' which is 'not,' be conscious of being?
Quote...StripperClown---Why would anyone reject the free gift of eternal life?
Who can tell, perhaps there are those who would prefer oblivion over life.
Quote...StripperClown---Was it because they didn't have enough evidence for the existence of a particular God that they have to miss out? "Sorry, you didn't quit believe in me, even though I didn't make it clear to you that I exist.
You know 'Who You Are,' who was in the beginning with the singularity that has become this living Cosmos. And that which was in the beginng which has become 'Who You Are,' is joined to the Alpha by an unbroken genetic thread of life, 'Who You Are' has never died, is not under any penality of death, and cannot die.
Try tracing 'Who You Are' back to his beginning: before you were a seperate entity you were an massive dead and dormant egg within your mother, which contained all the genetic characteristics of all your ancestors, an egg that was fetilised by the mi-nute living animated semen cell of your father, which after breaking through the outer membrane of the dormant female egg, died as a singularity in order to give life to the those genetic characteristics which would become you. Righto, now off you go, back, back, back into the darkest recesses of time in the quest of your beginnings.
Your indwelling ancestral Father Spirit, is the light bearer who guides you through life and warns you of any impending dangers; You may listen to him, be obedient to him and become one with him, and as He, live on into eternity, or you can choose to go it alone, the choice is yours. The world of Jesus' day, who believed that to break one letter of the law was to sin, were said by Jesus to have been wrong about sin, for sin is the disobedience to your indwelling Father, obedience to the written letter of the law can only bring death, for it is impossible that obedience to the written letter of the law can save anyone.
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StripperClown
Member
Each religion has their own offenses against God. Which one is correct and why? So, God, this all powerful being allows people to go to Hell because they didn't believe in him, or maybe not in the right way, even though we as beings would be even lower than ants compared to him? Does God feed on our belief? Is that what fuels God's power? Does a being that powerful need the validation of creatures as lowly as ourselves? Is he really so malevolent that he would create a place for us to suffer for eternity because he was not worshiped or acknowledged in the right way? Would he really be brazen enough to claim that we are being "saved" and that we should praise God for saving us from what is essentially himself? You don't thank the guy with the gun to your head for not shooting you, unless, of course, it's out of fear.
A true God would be able to look at each person. He could look at their thoughts, souls, hearts, mind, and everything. He would work in a loving way to help heal whatever needs to be healed without having anyone suffer for eternity. A true God would look at an atheist and go "I know you didn't believe I was here, but I can see why. It is good to truly reveal myself to you, and shed my light upon your eyes."
Nobody "wanted" a life separated from God. If atheists, agnostics, whatever believed in God, they would believe in God. You just want people to believe in your idea of God.
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StripperClown
Member
You can be floating around in a big void. A consciousness surrounded by nothing.
Then let them choose Oblivion out loud. Let them get to the pearly gates and then they can sign a sheet for which one they want. Give people a REAL choice.
This babble just goes to the age old question: "What created God?" I have never heard a light bearer before. If this light bearer wants to come to me as such, then so be it. Otherwise, it's voices in your head. I've had voices warn me of impending danger, but only due to my own knowledge of certain circumstances. If he wants to become one with me, he can. But I would imagine that this light bearer would be powerful enough to understand what I require as an individual to be convinced for him to become one with me. Little whispers in my ear don't quite cut it.
Elessar
Well-Known Member
I don't believe in eternal punishment of most, if any, humans. I believe there are certain spirits of an evil nature, such as the Adversary, who will be thrown into a Lake of Fire, as stated in the Revelation, eternally, and, maybe a very few humans in which exists not a hint of good or love (though I don't know if I would place even Adolf Hitler in this category). G-d will, in my belief, in the End of Days, judge everyone, every sapient being and every spirit, according to their works, good and bad, and assign them a fair punishment based on them. Then, as they complete their punishment, and are purified they are allowed into eternity with G-d in the heavens.
What the sin sacrifices in the Temple provided was a covering for sins and wrongs, allowing for the punishment to be lessened or eliminated, so that one could go more quickly on to eternity with G-d, and I believe that the perfect sacrifice of Yeshua the Messiah provides those who accept his message wholeheartedly, and who truly and honestly allow his sacrifice to cover their sins, and do their utmost to adhere to his teachings, will be allowed immediate entry into eternity without punishment, due to the grace of G-d, which endures forever.
The reason to spread the word that Yeshua the Messiah has covered over our sins is so that others, like ourselves, can be excused from their punishment, but, in my opinion, if someone cannot be convinced of that truth, that they should be at very least encouraged to follow the Torah, if they are Jewish, or the Noahide Laws, if gentile, or, at the very least for anyone, to follow the ethic of reciprocity to the utmost of their ability.
The ethic is an absolute, the greatest expression of G-d, and someone who follows it without cease and without hesitation will not fail to be rewarded by the Most High. It is an ethic provided to all the world, centuries before and centuries after Messiah, who himself confirmed its truth -
Lakhen kal mah shetir'tsu sheya'asu lakhem b'nei Adam, ken gam atem 'asu lahem, ki zo't ha-Torah v'ha-N'vi'im
Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the prophets - Mattityahu 7:12
This point is so critical, in fact, that I would question the salvation of anyone who rejected it.
What the sin sacrifices in the Temple provided was a covering for sins and wrongs, allowing for the punishment to be lessened or eliminated, so that one could go more quickly on to eternity with G-d, and I believe that the perfect sacrifice of Yeshua the Messiah provides those who accept his message wholeheartedly, and who truly and honestly allow his sacrifice to cover their sins, and do their utmost to adhere to his teachings, will be allowed immediate entry into eternity without punishment, due to the grace of G-d, which endures forever.
The reason to spread the word that Yeshua the Messiah has covered over our sins is so that others, like ourselves, can be excused from their punishment, but, in my opinion, if someone cannot be convinced of that truth, that they should be at very least encouraged to follow the Torah, if they are Jewish, or the Noahide Laws, if gentile, or, at the very least for anyone, to follow the ethic of reciprocity to the utmost of their ability.
The ethic is an absolute, the greatest expression of G-d, and someone who follows it without cease and without hesitation will not fail to be rewarded by the Most High. It is an ethic provided to all the world, centuries before and centuries after Messiah, who himself confirmed its truth -
Lakhen kal mah shetir'tsu sheya'asu lakhem b'nei Adam, ken gam atem 'asu lahem, ki zo't ha-Torah v'ha-N'vi'im
Always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that sums up the teaching of the Torah and the prophets - Mattityahu 7:12
This point is so critical, in fact, that I would question the salvation of anyone who rejected it.
OBLIVION: The state of being completely unaware of oneself (Unconscious) a nothing ness that is not conscious of being, floating around in a void is, OBLIVION.
Then let them choose Oblivion out loud. Let them get to the pearly gates and then they can sign a sheet for which one they want. Give people a REAL choice.
Little children who are easily deceived may believe in the Pearly Gates, I really don't believe that you are that naive.
This babble just goes to the age old question: "What created God?"
You know that the boundless and eternal living Cosmos exists, have you listened to the babble that goes to the age old question, how was it created?
I've had voices warn me of impending danger, but only due to my own knowledge of certain circumstances.
I've had the inner voice warn me of things that are far outside that which my past experiences and knowledge could have possibly foreseen, when everyone comes to understand that their God and their saviour dwells within themselves and he will use them to do that which must be done in any given point in time, then the babbling will stop, for no one will be able to teach another about God, for every person will know their God, and will be true to who they are.
For I tell you now that you can lie, there is a time to steal
There is a time to disobey, there is a time to kill
There is a work that must be done upon the sabbath day
No one who understands his God would teach another way
For the Lord God judges not, on what you do
The heart and soul of man he searches through
The reason 'why' the deeds of man are done
This is what the Lord God judges on.
HoldemDB9
Active Member
I doubt anyone on the planet would want separation from God, even Atheists. Its just that they don't believe God exists. Rebelling against something and wanting to be separated from something, is not the same as believing that something doesn't exist.
StripperClown
Member
Should've stated in the beginning that it was a state of non-being.
Children being deceived has nothing to do with choice over something like that. Like I said -- let me see the papers to choose what I want.
We don't know if it's a boundless and eternal cosmos.
Whether it is or isn't is not proof of God.The Human mind can be a powerful thing. Chances are that you came to a conclusion on your own. Did it warn you of something out of the realm of possibility? Were you told an escaped convict in a clown suit was going to jump through your window holding an uzi, a porno mag, and a box of animal crackers? How exactly out of the norm was this premonition?
Children being deceived has nothing to do with choice over something like that. Like I said -- let me see the papers to choose what I want.
We don't know if it's a boundless and eternal cosmos.
The Human mind can be a powerful thing. Chances are that you came to a conclusion on your own. Did it warn you of something out of the realm of possibility? Were you told an escaped convict in a clown suit was going to jump through your window holding an uzi, a porno mag, and a box of animal crackers? How exactly out of the norm was this premonition?
Quote...Stripper Clown...Should've stated in the beginning that it was a state of non-being.
OBLIVION: A state of being completely forgotten. To be erased from the memory of the living eternally growing mind that is God which mind of swirling patterns of waveparticles are perceived by our created senses as the boundless and eternal Cosmos, is a state of non- being.
Children being deceived has nothing to do with choice over something like that. Like I said -- let me see the papers to choose what I want.
If it's your choice to believe that there is some golden city which exists outside the boundless and eternal Cosmos with it's Pealy Gates, then by all means go there and receive your paper from Peter, ('A paper from Peter,' ummm that could make a good poem) then go for it, but don't get lost on the way, she's a long way to the edge of a boundless Cosmos old mate.
Quote..StripperClown... We don't know if it's a boundless and eternal cosmos.
Whether it is or isn't is not proof of God.Well you can believe that it came from nothing and is returning to the nothingness of it's origin, from which nothingness, could possibly come another Cosmos, not unlike the one which had come from and disappeared into the nothingness of those who believe that the living Cosmos which has developed within itself a mind capable of comprehending the 'I AM,' has a beginning and end, but not me, and until you can show to me the outer boundary of the Cosmos, to me it will remain 'Boundless.'
As to the rest of the verbal regurgation in your previous post, we will ignore that with the contempt that it deserves.
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StripperClown
Member
Quote...Stripper Clown...Should've stated in the beginning that it was a state of non-being.
OBLIVION: A state of being completely forgotten. To be erased from the memory of the living eternally growing mind that is God which mind of swirling patterns of waveparticles are perceived by our created senses as the boundless and eternal Cosmos, is a state of non- being.
Children being deceived has nothing to do with choice over something like that. Like I said -- let me see the papers to choose what I want.
If it's your choice to believe that there is some golden city which exists outside the boundless and eternal Cosmos with it's Pealy Gates, then by all means go there and receive your paper from Peter, ('A paper from Peter,' ummm that could make a good poem) then go for it, but don't get lost on the way, she's a long way to the edge of a boundless Cosmos old mate.
Quote..StripperClown... We don't know if it's a boundless and eternal cosmos.
Well you can believe that it came from nothing and is returning to the nothingness of it's origin, from which nothingness, could possibly come another Cosmos, not unlike the one which had come from and disappeared into the nothingness of those who believe that the living Cosmos which has developed within itself a mind capable of comprehending the 'I AM,' has a beginning and end, but not me, and when you can show to me the outer boundary of the Cosmos, to me it will remain 'Boundless.'
As to the rest of the verbal regurgation in your previous post, we will ignore that with the contempt that it deserves.
Oblivion seems to have more definitions: oblivion definition | Dictionary.com
I was obviously using that as an example. But, yes, I would like to sign the paper as to my choice in something like that. I would like solid evidence and data for both sides of the argument to be handed to me by God so that I may choose my own fate.
I never said that I believed it came from nothing. It may have have come from something, but chances aren't that it was supernatural. Any of us can only say "we don't know." There are a few really good theories out there, and it's being worked on. It all just winds back to the Watch maker argument.
The rest of my post is fine. Anyone else would say that I made a valid point. You said you were told by this light bearer of something. This is what was said... "I've had the inner voice warn me of things that are far outside that which my past experiences and knowledge could have possibly foreseen." So, I ask what did this voice warn you about? How was what it warned you about far outside the realm of normal possibility? If you heard a voice saying something along the lines that someone would break into your house, that's a more common occurance. Were you told of something specifically happening to a specific person at a specific time? Something like that needs to be more detailed and less vague. If a voice was telling me about an axe wielding Japanese school girl with a pirate hat that would attack me on Thursday at 3:15 PM, and it happened, I would be pretty impressed, and far more likely to believe.
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Oblivion seems to have more definitions: oblivion definition | Dictionary.com
Well would you look at that, in this instance you are correct.
Readers Digest Universal Dictionary...OBLIVION: 1. The state or condition of being completely forgotten. 2. Forgetfulness or an instance of forgetting or overlooking.
3.The state of being completely unaware of oneself or one's surroundings. 4. law, An official forgetting of offences, or remission of punishment for them; an amnesty.
Quote...Stripper clown...I never said that I believed it came from nothing. It may have have come from something, but chances aren't that it was supernatural. Any of us can only say "we don't know." There are a few really good theories out there, and it's being worked on. It all just winds back to the Watch maker argument.
Because the boundless cloud of swirling condensing waveparticles which we perceive as the living bounless Cosmos exists, that proves to me that it has always existed in some form or another. Even if it was something that took aeons and aeons of time just to become the first photon, which, although carrying angular and linear momentum, has zero mass and no electric charge, yet, is regarded as a discrete elementary particle, and whether that quantum of electromagnetic energy had the capability of occuppying different positions in space in the one apparent position in time over varying distances, and it is that which we perceive as the Cosmos which in reality is the swirling mind in which an intellect capable of comprehending the 'I AM', has developed, what does it matter? It is, it was, and it will always be, unless of course you can prove that something can become nothing. There is nothing supernatural about the eternal evolving mind that is the invisible God who manifests himself as the visible Cosmos.
I'm only glad that my inner voice to who I listen, and to whom I am obedient, didn't tell me that a Stripper Clown was coming through my window, O good heavens, I'm receiving a mental image of it, and it's enough to send me off into oblivion. Got to go to work, see you'se all later.
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StripperClown
Member
The cosmos may have always existed in one form or another. We're still at the point where we're trying to figure that stuff out. It's just not good to make any assumption that the universe is a conscious entity when our understanding of the universe isn't that vast yet. Not trying to argue that something may have always existed; just that we don't know yet.
You still haven't explained why what the voice told you in the instance was so profound. You can keep side-stepping, but I'll keep asking. So, what was said by this voice that was so amazing? What was the situation? Was it a vague prediction of the future, or was it detailed?
The Cosmos is a living entity in which there has developed a supreme conscious personality, the most high in the creation and Lord of all creatures, who is to be superseded by that which comes from man "The Son of Man," who will gain dominion over all life forms which has proceeded him the new creation and God on earth. For the mind that is God cannot stop evolving, if you can show to me a mind that can no longer evolve or has stop from growing, then I'll show to you a mind that has ceased to exist.
Seeing as you have asked so nicely and not in the facetious manner of your other post and have said that you are going to persist in asking, I suppose I must tell you what my inner voice told me, “He said that an escaped convict in a clown suit was going to jump through my window holding an uzi, a porno magazine, and a box of animal crackers.
I don't tolerate fools who try to get a laugh at my expense, and I give back to them in double portion.
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StripperClown
Member
Can you show me how the cosmos is a living entity? It's full of stars, planets, and what not, but how is the cosmos in of itself a living entity? Is this Star Wars, and we're using the force?
I was never being facetious in the other posts. I had to post a very out of the ordinary example so you would get the idea. Just because something has a ridiculous character in it, does not mean the question itself is ridiculous... especially when it's very much a part of the question. You still refuse to answer a legit question because you do not like an example that was used, even though it is perfectly reasonable within the realm of the question. I stated that type of scenario because it would be the type of specific thing that if a voice told you about, and came to pass, that it would be far more likely to be real. But, please, keep side-stepping the question. If you can't answer the question, then just say so.
Nobody is laughing -- it was a legitimate question. You didn't give anything back except your inability to answer the question.
By asking for it?
Quote...StripperClown...Can you show me how the cosmos is a living entity? It's full of stars, planets, and what not, but how is the cosmos in of itself a living entity? Is this Star Wars, and we're using the force?
And you believe that the planets are merely dead rocks floating in space do you?
If you could see a series of films of the earth starting back 4.5 billion years ago, one frame taken every one million years, and watch the changing earth and know that the living earth could not produce without the input of the sun and the planets in our system, and even the light from distant heavenly bodies contributed to we, who are the children of the stars, but apart from that, the very fact that there is Life within the boundless Cosmos, proves that it is a living entity, is that so difficult for you to understand, or do you believe that life developed outside the living Cosmos? Or perhaps you believe that you, a living conscious entity, are descended from your great ancestral mother, who was nothing but a dead rock?
Quote...StripperClown....I was never being facetious in the other posts. I had to post a very out of the ordinary example so you would get the idea.
No! You did not have to post a very out of the ordinary example so that muggins ME would get the idea, you only had to ask.
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StripperClown
Member
There's obviously rocks with life on them, since we live on one. But, most of them are just floating rocks. The Earth is just one example of things developing within a certain system. And to show life and what not developing, we have abiogenesis, evolution, etc. But, we have only seen how life has come to be and evolve on Earth; not any other planet yet. Science is still advancing and improving. Perhaps we'll have the answers to more questions some day. We understand how life can come to be in a closed system, such as our solar system, but that is about the extent of it so far. So, there's obviously life in the universe, but that does not make the universe itself a living thing. Not saying we came from nothing, but through scientific processes. What made the universe a living, conscious entity then? Did the cosmos become this conscious entity from nothing?
I did have to post an out of the ordinary example. If it were a common example, like being told that someone stole your car, that wouldn't be too much for a voice of that power. Telling you something extremely specific, such as an example like that, would be vastly more proof for the existence of said light bringer. Even if you don't particularly like it, you don't have to cry about it. Suck it up, answer the question, and be done. It's almost as petty as whining about a minor character in a movie. Too bad if someone doesn't ask a question in the exact way that you like.
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