Homosexuality

[Guitar's Cry]

So, you wish to be enslaved? After all, if you think loving others as yourself included slavery, you must want to be one.

It's always easy to defend slavery when you are secure in your unlikeliness of being one.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Can you live off a diet of rotten fruit? I don't think you'd live very long by doing so.

We drink the fermented juice squeezed from the fruit hanging on the cross, right?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hi SkepticThinker. If you analyse your thoughts and figure out why you have a hatred of slavery, you'll realise it's because of the abuse of slaves as was the case in the 17th and 18th centuries, where enslaved Africans worked mainly on the tobacco, rice and indigo plantations. If Yahweh's Law was kept, where we are to love our neighbor as ourselves, and slaves weren't mistreated as was the case then, then you would have a different view of slavery.

In terms of my views being appalling to you, I appall at the way slaves were kept in 17th and 18th centuries and before that, if that may be any consolation to you. Slaves in the Bible had rights, the slaves of our era's didn't seem to have any rights. But if I must I'd rather seem appalling to you than appalling to Yahweh. Yahweh knows what He is doing and His Law is perfect. Proverbs 28:4 says "They that forsake the law praise the wicked; But such as keep the law contend with them."

I have a hatred of slavery because I believe it's immoral to own human beings as property.
You don't (I guess) because a bronze age book of stories says so and you're stuck having to adhere to it.

This whole "slavery in the Bible isn't like the slavery of the South" is nonsense apologetics used to try to explain away why a supposedly loving and moral God would allow human beings to own others as property. The slaves in the Bible were to be purchased from surrounding nations that had been conquered in war, they could be owned for life (and their entire family) and passed down to one's children and you could beat them so long as they didn't die within a few days. So please spare me the apologetics. Yahweh, as described, ,is immoral. I don't follow that kind of immorality.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And I'll have to delay further, am about to leave for a ten-day trip without internet/computer. Be well.

Enjoy your trip.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

So, you wish to be enslaved? After all, if you think loving others as yourself included slavery, you must want to be one.

Hi Kelly of the Phoenix. Good afternoon. I hope you are well. Sorry for the broken post, I must've clicked on the reply button before I finished my post. This whole world is enslaved to sin, yet most people don't have a problem with that. We all serve a master. Whether that's Satan the Adversary, or Yahshua the Messiah. I have no desire to be a slave, but I recognize that when it came to Yahweh's Law slavery was permitted and I can understand why it was. Perhaps you lack the wisdom of not looking in to the Law of Yahweh to see how slaves were treated. Perhaps I can enlighten you a little bit so you see things the way I see them.

Exodus 21:1-4 ESV says:
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone."

As a result, people were not enslaved for their whole lives. The slave had the right to leave if they chose to and become a free man after only working for their Master for seven years. As a result, it served the Masters to treat their slaves well as upon being released, the slave could then damage or improve the reputation of their Masters to others.

The only time when a slave was permitted to serve their Masters for their whole life was if they voluntarily submitted to their Masters. In other words, they chose to serve their Masters. Do you really think slavery would be that bad if slaves were choosing, of their own free-will, to serve their Masters for the rest of their life? You can read this in Exodus 21:6.

Slaves could go free if they were abused also - if they were physically damaged. You see, Yahweh is a just Mighty One and slavery can be a benefit to both parties involved when Yahweh's Law is kept properly. Haven't you read Ephesians 6:5 ESV? "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would the Messiah" or how about Colossians 4:1 ESV "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." Or do you think it better to be homeless, not learning, without work and without a roof over your head?

Yahweh is a very loving Elohim. He doesn't make up Laws for the fun of it. They are Laws which when kept benefit all parties involved. They are Laws which have been created out of love for His creation and His people.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hi Kelly of the Phoenix. Good afternoon. I hope you are well. Sorry for the broken post, I must've clicked on the reply button before I finished my post. This whole world is enslaved to sin, yet most people don't have a problem with that. We all serve a master. Whether that's Satan the Adversary, or Yahshua the Messiah. I have no desire to be a slave, but I recognize that when it came to Yahweh's Law slavery was permitted and I can understand why it was. Perhaps you lack the wisdom of not looking in to the Law of Yahweh to see how slaves were treated. Perhaps I can enlighten you a little bit so you see things the way I see them.

Exodus 21:1-4 ESV says:
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone."

As a result, people were not enslaved for their whole lives. The slave had the right to leave if they chose to and become a free man after only working for their Master for seven years. As a result, it served the Masters to treat their slaves well as upon being released, the slave could then damage or improve the reputation of their Masters to others.

The only time when a slave was permitted to serve their Masters for their whole life was if they voluntarily submitted to their Masters. In other words, they chose to serve their Masters. Do you really think slavery would be that bad if slaves were choosing, of their own free-will, to serve their Masters for the rest of their life? You can read this in Exodus 21:6.

Slaves could go free if they were abused also - if they were physically damaged. You see, Yahweh is a just Mighty One and slavery can be a benefit to both parties involved when Yahweh's Law is kept properly. Haven't you read Ephesians 6:5 ESV? "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would the Messiah" or how about Colossians 4:1 ESV "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." Or do you think it better to be homeless, not learning, without work and without a roof over your head?

Yahweh is a very loving Elohim. He doesn't make up Laws for the fun of it. They are Laws which when kept benefit all parties involved. They are Laws which have been created out of love for His creation and His people.

Instead of preaching, try addressing the actual points made.

And hey, I see here you've talked about Hebrew slaves. Why didn't you tell us about the non-Hebrew slaves that were to be taken from surrounding nations, I wonder?

 

[stanberger]

I could never imagine letting go of my son or niece, who recently came out as pan-sexual to me(which I didn't understand the vocabulary, and it had to be explained). My only concern for his future relationships is that he is neither abused or is abusing. His future mate's gender means nothing to me.

I don't understand why a person would abandon another over something such as this. It has nothing to do with anyone other than the person themselves... of no more importance than whether one prefers blondes or brunettes..(or purple hair...), in my opinion.

 

[stanberger]

Hi Kelly of the Phoenix. Good afternoon. I hope you are well. Sorry for the broken post, I must've clicked on the reply button before I finished my post. This whole world is enslaved to sin, yet most people don't have a problem with that. We all serve a master. Whether that's Satan the Adversary, or Yahshua the Messiah. I have no desire to be a slave, but I recognize that when it came to Yahweh's Law slavery was permitted and I can understand why it was. Perhaps you lack the wisdom of not looking in to the Law of Yahweh to see how slaves were treated. Perhaps I can enlighten you a little bit so you see things the way I see them.

Exodus 21:1-4 ESV says:
“Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone."

As a result, people were not enslaved for their whole lives. The slave had the right to leave if they chose to and become a free man after only working for their Master for seven years. As a result, it served the Masters to treat their slaves well as upon being released, the slave could then damage or improve the reputation of their Masters to others.

The only time when a slave was permitted to serve their Masters for their whole life was if they voluntarily submitted to their Masters. In other words, they chose to serve their Masters. Do you really think slavery would be that bad if slaves were choosing, of their own free-will, to serve their Masters for the rest of their life? You can read this in Exodus 21:6.

Slaves could go free if they were abused also - if they were physically damaged. You see, Yahweh is a just Mighty One and slavery can be a benefit to both parties involved when Yahweh's Law is kept properly. Haven't you read Ephesians 6:5 ESV? "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would the Messiah" or how about Colossians 4:1 ESV "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." Or do you think it better to be homeless, not learning, without work and without a roof over your head?

Yahweh is a very loving Elohim. He doesn't make up Laws for the fun of it. They are Laws which when kept benefit all parties involved. They are Laws which have been created out of love for His creation and His people.

 

[stanberger]

isn't this the same bible god that orders 'babies heads be bashed against the rocks ' and that murdered babies in cribs of Egypt [passover]. none of which is found in quran

 

[Monty]

Remember the two angels that came in Lot's house. The men of the city young and old wanted Lot to bring them out so they can have sex with them. (They wanted to commit homosexual acts) on them and they were demanding that Lot turn them over to them and he even threatened Lot they would harm in worse if he didn't. So, homosexuality does have some say in the story of Lot from the Bible. It was indeed practiced heavily if the town wanted just these two men.

It is mentioned however in the story of Lot in the Quran and through authenticated ahadith (sayings and teachings of Mohammad pbuh)

And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, “Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.” But the answer of his people was only that they said, “Evict them from your city! Indeed, they are men who keep themselves pure.” (Ayat 80-82)

And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, “Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds. Indeed, you approach men and obstruct the road and commit in your meetings [every] evil.” And the answer of his people was not but they said, “Bring us the punishment of Allah, if you should be of the truthful.” He said, “My Lord, support me against the corrupting people.” And when Our messengers came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, “Indeed, we will destroy the people of that Lot’s city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers.” [Abraham] said, “Indeed, within it is Lot.” They said, “We are more knowing of who is within it. We will surely save him and his family, except his wife. She is to be of those who remain behind.” (Ayat 28-32)

That story in Gen 19, however, has nothing to do with homosexuality, and describes how Lot's two future sons-in-law were outside Lot's house with the rest of the town's people and wanted to know what Lot was up to with the two blokes he picked up down town. Lot then came out and offered their future wives to the crowd, and later came out again and mocked his future sons-in-law, presumably because he didn't want them to marry his daughters. And after the volcanic eruption and his wife was killed and encased in volcanic ash, he sexually assaulted their future wives in a cave and dishonestly blamed his immorality on his daughters by lying about his drunken assaults on them.

The previous chapter describes how Lot's uncle had a face to face discussion with a god about the number of unrighteous children in Gomorrah when they shared a non kosher meal with two other blokes, and how the god then walked down to Gomorrah and Sodom to count them for himself.

 

[Monty]

isn't this the same bible god that orders 'babies heads be bashed against the rocks ' and that murdered babies in cribs of Egypt [passover]. none of which is found in quran

And the same one that commands the pregnancies of adulteresses to be aborted (Lev 20:10. Numbers 5:20-28).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And the same one that commands the pregnancies of adulteresses to be aborted (Lev 20:10. Numbers 5:20-28).

Just a heads up you replied to peole who haven't been on in over a year.