Holy Ghost vs. Spirit of Christ

[waldo]

something accured to me the other day.
i'm not sure if you'll understand this but okay, mormons say that the spirit of christ is given to every man, but the holy ghost can only be felt if you've been babtized in the mormon church, unless you feel it at the lds church or off of members who have the holy ghost or from reading the book of mormon, right?
well acording to mormons, if you haven't been babtized in the lds church, how come you can still feel the holy ghost from reading the book of mormon, but not from reading the bible. Are they not both the word of god?
my lds family can't really give me a strait answer, so what do you say?
am i mistaken with anything?

 

[Aqualung]

but the holy ghost can only be felt if you've been babtized in the mormon church, unless you feel it at the lds church or off of members who have the holy ghost or from reading the book of mormon, right?

Wrong. We say that everybody can feel the holy ghost. It's fruits are truth, joy, love, etc (there's a verse in the bible somewhere), but that you can only have it for a constant companion if you have been baptised.

 

[Aqualung]

Well, technically after you have been confirmed, not baptised.

 

[waldo]

so do mormons think there's a difference between the spirit of christ and the holy ghost?

 

[waldo]

also, why would god not let non-mormons have the holy ghost as a constant companion? and what's the difference anyway between having the holy ghost and having the holy ghost as a constant companion. If you don't have the holy ghost as a constant companion, when would and wouldn't you have it?
and out of curiosity, what do you say about me? I've been baptized in your church, so do i not have the holy ghost as a constant companion anymore just because i converted? or what if i decided to convert back? would i have to get baptized again? How does that work?

 

[Aqualung]

I'm not sure. There might be a slight distinction. The Spirit of Christ might just refer to the tendency people have to at least try to do good, or to try to do things in the spirit of christ (even if they don't know that it is he they are emulating), whereas the Holy Ghost is actually something.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not sure. There might be a slight distinction. The Spirit of Christ might just refer to the tendency people have to at least try to do good, or to try to do things in the spirit of christ (even if they don't know that it is he they are emulating), whereas the Holy Ghost is actually something.

I think the term you are looking for is "Light of Christ" - not "Spirit of Christ". I basically see this as being your conscience - the thing that everyone has that lets them know right from wrong.

Also, having the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost is not something that is automatic after being confirmed. You still have to be trying to do the right thing. I wouldn't be surprised if there were many confirmed members of the church who have never had the Holy Ghost as a constant companion. I would actually go so far as to say that there are very few that really have the Spirit with them at all times. I know that I don't, but I can tell when he is with me and when he isn't. You can only tell that, though, if he leaves suddenly. If you gradually move away from him, you probably wouldn't notice the change, but it would be there.

 

[Aqualung]

also, why would god not let non-mormons have the holy ghost as a constant companion?

Because the Holy Ghost is God, and it can only reside with the righteous. Obviously, not with only the completely righteous (because that would be nobody) but with the people who have been baptised and cleansed of their sins in that manner.

and what's the difference anyway between having the holy ghost and having the holy ghost as a constant companion.

The frequency and ease with which you can feel his nudges.

If you don't have the holy ghost as a constant companion, when would and wouldn't you have it?

You would have it when you are doing the right thing. It would tell you that you are doing the right thing. (Like when somebody reads the BoM it would tell you that you're doing the right thing.)

and out of curiosity, what do you say about me? I've been baptized in your church, so do i not have the holy ghost as a constant companion anymore just because i converted?

I'm not sure. That's a good question. I would say that you don't, but that it's just waiting for you to come back. You woulnd't have to get rebaptised. You have already recieved the Holy Ghost. Right now, you pretty much evicted it (if you will), but once you decide, he will come back. (I think. I'd have to ask somebody for that one, though)

 

[Aqualung]

Ah, thanks for that help/clearification, Soy Leche.

 

[waldo]

Because the Holy Ghost is God, and it can only reside with the righteous. Obviously, not with only the completely righteous (because that would be nobody) but with the people who have been baptised and cleansed of their sins in that manner.

can't you be rightous without being baptized and didn't jesus atone for all our sins anyway. and why do we need to be baptized to cleanse us of our sins, and even then, that only clenses you of your sins you commited before baptizm. So you'd have to keep clean yourself after that, so couldn't you be clean without being baptized in the same way as you would keep clean after baptizm? does that make sense?

You would have it when you are doing the right thing. It would tell you that you are doing the right thing. (Like when somebody reads the BoM it would tell you that you're doing the right thing.)

then what does having the holy ghost do (if not as constant companion?)

 

[waldo]

I think the term you are looking for is "Light of Christ" - not "Spirit of Christ". I basically see this as being your conscience - the thing that everyone has that lets them know right from wrong.

Moroni 7:16 says "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of."

 

[SoyLeche]

then what does having the holy ghost do (if not as constant companion?)

Testifies of truth.

 

[SoyLeche]

Moroni 7:16 says "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of."

Yup, that's what I'm talking about.

 

[waldo]

Testifies of truth.

but isn't that what the holy ghost does as a constant companion? what's the difference?

 

[SoyLeche]

but isn't that what the holy ghost does as a constant companion? what's the difference?

That's a part of it. The Holy Ghost always testifies of truth, regardless of whether you have the Gift of the Holy Ghost or not. In other words, when you hear truth, the Holy Ghost will testify to you that it is truth. If you don't have the Gift of the Holy Ghost, however, that's pretty much as far as it goes. If you do have the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and are keeping the commandments and trying to follow the guidance that he is giving you, He will be with you at all times. He does a lot in that role. There's the whole Comforter thing, there's the guidance thing, he can warn you of danger, let you know what the right decisions are to make, that sort of thing. I don't think that I have ever gotten to the point that I understand what he tells me as much as I should. I'm still working on it.

 

[Aqualung]

can't you be rightous without being baptized and didn't jesus atone for all our sins anyway.

Sure, you can be "righteous" but you still have those past sins haging over your head. Jesus only atoned for those who would accept his atonement. Part of accepting is being baptised.

and why do we need to be baptized to cleanse us of our sins, and even then, that only clenses you of your sins you commited before baptizm.

I don't know, but even Christ had to be baptised to fulfill all righteousness. He was perfect, and he still needed to be baptised for righteousness. We definitely have to be baptised to be able to have the holy spirit to guide us.

So you'd have to keep clean yourself after that, so couldn't you be clean without being baptized in the same way as you would keep clean after baptizm? does that make sense?

Yes, it makes sense. The sacrament is just a renewal of your baptism, though, so everybody doesn't have to be baptised for the remission of sins all the time.

 

[SoyLeche]

I have felt bad that I couldn't explain better what the Holy Ghost does for us as a constant companion. Today I listened to a talk that Dallin H. Oaks gave about revelation, and in it he describes 8 different purposes for revelation. I think that these 8 cover the purpose of the Holy Ghost for us rather well. They are:

(1) to testify
(2) to prophesy
(3) to comfort
(4) to uplift
(5) to inform
(6) to restrain
(7) to confirm
(8) to impel

I am going to start another thread to discuss this talk itself. I will post the link to the talk there.

 

[Ammon]

You ask a good question....why do we need to be baptized? Jesus himself not only taught it, but through his example demonstrated that baptism was an essential ordinance in order to return to live with our father in Heaven. He states in John 3:3-5 the following:
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

There are two things that Jesus is talking about in these verses. First he talks about a "born again" experience that helps us see the Kingdom of God. Most Christians go through this stage at some point. It happens when they gain a desire to follow Christ and to make changes in their lives. This process causes them to "see" themselves as spiritual pilgrims one day home again in God's presence or Kingdom.

In verse 5 however, we learn that there are certain things we must "do" if we are to actually "enter" that Kingdom. Jesus talks about being born of water and of the spirit. In the LDS faith this is babtism and the gift of the holy ghost.

When Jesus was babtized in Matthew 3:13-17 we read:
13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be abaptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 aAnd Jesus answering said unto him, bSuffer it to be so now: for thus it cbecometh us to dfulfil all erighteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was abaptized, went up bstraightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the cSpirit of God descending like a ddove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a avoice from heaven, saying, This is my bbeloved cSon, in whom I am well pleased.

(sorry about the extra letters above - they are footnotes that copied over)

Here we see a perfect God being baptized, despite the fact that he needed no cleansing, he showed us His example and fulfilled the requirements that we too must fulfill.

As to why does God require baptism? I don't know. Why can't we just make some internal commitment like, "I will follow thee". My guess is that our Father in Heaven is a God of order. Sociologists would point out that studies show that those who go through a public display (like baptism or marriage) of an inner commitment they've made are more likely to keep it. At this point these are just my opinions.

The Book of Mormon offers a great explanation which I would like to share. It is found in 2nd Nephi 31:7-9
7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be aobedient unto him in keeping his commandments.

8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the aform of a bdove.

9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the agate, by which they should enter, he having set the bexample before them.

Hope this helps

 

[hispanicmormon]

First, you asked if the Spirit of Christ is the same thing as the Holy Ghost. No, they are not the same. The Spirit of Christ is basically the soul of Jesus. The Holy Ghost is a separate personage from Jesus Christ and God the Father. He is the third personage of the Godhead. The Holy Ghost is a spirit with no body of flesh and bones. The Holy Ghost is the only personage with no flesh and bones that is considered a God. Not having a body gives him some sort of advantages as far as permeating the universe. But the Holy Ghost is not any more omnipresent than the Light of Christ. The Light of Christ, as someone else mentioned, undermines your conscience. It is almost like an electrical energy that emanates from the brain of Jesus Christ.

You also asked what is the difference between the Holy Ghost testifying of truth in a non-member and the Holy Ghost testifying of truth as a constant companion in a baptized and confirmed member. The difference is that someone who is confirmed and has the gift of the Holy Ghost may receive this testifying of truth constantly as opposed to intermittently.