Hey! Yo diests. I have a question.

[Unveiled Artist]

Hard core diest, if that means anything, do you guys believe in an external God? (Does have to be like abahamic) Maybe with its own character? Diesm, if I read this right, is a belief in God who does not interact with people?

Cheers!

 

[Tyho]

A Deist believe in God (not an always external one, that depend on your variation of Deism) but does so based on observation of the natural world, reason and/or intuition, not scriptures, dogmas or revelations. As such he is a freethinker, but often ground his faith according to science. Therefore Deists are less inclined to believe in supernatual interventions, miracles ect. God is indeed the Creator and the Universe is rational, evolving according to it's own physical laws, without the need of divine interventions, which would impede our free will..

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A Deist believe in God (not an always external one, that depend on your variation of Deism) but does so based on observation of the natural world, reason and intuiton, not scriptures, dogmas or revelations. As such he is a freethinker, but often ground his faith according to science. Therefore Deists are less inclined to believe in supernatual interventions, miracles ect. God is indeed the Creator of the Universe but the Universe is rational and evolve according to it's physical laws, without divine intervention.

Belief in God based on reason? Say that other religions have beliefs bases on reason and observation science with or without dogma and scriptures. How is deist unique or is it a philosophy based on the objections of God centered dogmatic beliefs?

 

[Tyho]

Belief in God based on reason? Say that other religions have beliefs bases on reason and observation science with or without dogma and scriptures. How is deist unique or is it a philosophy based on the objections of God centered dogmatic beliefs?

Each religions require you to believe in their teachings, doctrines, sometimes their dogma. (Exemple: if you don't believe in Muhammad as the Prophet speaking in the name of Allah then you are not a muslim, and God doesn't favor you.., if you reject the Christ as the son of God, the Savior of mankind than your are not a Christian, and God doesn't like it..) Not so with Deism, you can believe in God without having to buy into religious teachings, practices, institutions ect. You become a freethinker, driven in your spiritual faith by reason, observation and/or intuition. There is no longer any man-made ''intermediary'' ( namely religion, cult, guru ect.) between you and the Creator.

Here is Deism Defined by the World's largest organization of Deists:

Deism Defined, Welcome to Deism, Deist Glossary and Frequently Asked Questions

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does diesm stand on its own feet as a philosophy or is it only based on the objections of faiths with doctrines and followers?

For example, Catholicism stands on its own two feet. It doesnt say "We believe in the Eucharist 'because' you (say baptist) believe in grape juice 'and that is wrong.'" It says "We believe in Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, Period." This fact is not based on baptists beliefs but their own.

Do diest have "there own" beliefs or is it o ly based on the beliefs of others? (Ex. You believe in scripture, so, weee wil believe the opposite)

Understand?

Each religions require you to believe in their teachings, doctrines, sometimes their dogma. (Exemple: if you don't believe in Muhammad as the Prophet speaking in the name of Allah then you are not a muslim, and God doesn't favor you.., if you reject the Christ as the son of God, the Savior of mankind than your are not a Christian, and God doesn't like it..) Not so with Deism, you can believe in God without having to buy into religious teachings, practices, institutions ect. You become a freethinker, driven in your spiritual faith by reason, observation and/or intuition. There is no longer any man-made ''intermediary'' ( namely religion, cult, guru ect.) between you and the Creator.

Here is Deism Defined by the World's largest organization of Deists:

Deism Defined, Welcome to Deism, Deist Glossary and Frequently Asked Questions

 

[columbus]

Hard core diest, if that means anything,

What is a dieist?
Isn't that one of those KoolAid Christians or the Muslims who attack art shows in Texas?
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is a dieist?
Isn't that one of those KoolAid Christians or the Muslims who attack art shows in Texas?
Tom

You making fun of my smartphone fingers??

 

[columbus]

Belief in God based on reason? Say that other religions have beliefs bases on reason and observation science with or without dogma and scriptures.

Yes, a god image based on reason.
The universe exists, therefore God. Period. No anthropomorphic characteristics ascribed to the image. Nothing supernatural involved. No reincarnation, no superhuman morals, no nothing.

No religion is like that. They all have some element of supernatural something or other. That is why deism isn't a religion.
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That sounds kind of weird. What is thr creator based on...just believing in a creator alone brings in metaphysical language. Or is it scientific pantheism?

Yes, a god image based on reason.
The universe exists, therefore God. Period. No anthropomorphic characteristics ascribed to the image. Nothing supernatural involved. No reincarnation, no superhuman morals, no nothing.

No religion is like that. They all have some element of supernatural something or other. That is why deism isn't a religion.
Tom

 

[columbus]

That sounds kind of weird.

Because it is simple, reason based, and doesn't have the irrational stuff people expect from theology.

What is thr creator based on...just believing in a creator alone brings in metaphysical language. Or is it scientific pantheism?

The creator is based on the creation. Do you see any intention in the natural world? No. Do you see that the universe cares about what you do or what happens to you? No.
God just is. God is nothing like us.

Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From non deist view, that seems like trying to stay away from all supernatural stuff but keep only one thing, god. Wouldnt god (regardless of faith or philosophy) be a supernatural idea by itself? How can you take away all supernatural stuff and still say there is a creator? Unless its pantheism? The universe Is God? If not, Im still at a lost.

Because it is simple, reason based, and doesn't have the irrational stuff people expect from theology.
The creator is based on the creation. Do you see any intention in the natural world? No. Do you see that the universe cares about what you do or what happens to you? No.
God just is. God is nothing like us.

Tom

 

[columbus]

From non deist view, that seems like trying to stay away from all supernatural stuff but keep only one thing, god. Wouldnt god (regardless of faith or philosophy) be a supernatural idea by itself? How can you take away all supernatural stuff and still say there is a creator? Unless its pantheism? The universe Is God? If not, Im still at a lost.

You keep trying to add stuff to a very simple concept.
The universe exists, therefore God. That's it. No supernatural anything. No moral code, no afterlife, no angels, no anything.
There may be things and concepts in the natural world we currently don't know about, but do exist. In fact, I'm sure that there are. But we don't know about them. So making claims is wrong.
There just isn't anything theological about this.
Tom

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How does a diest define god who is not supernatural? The word god implies, loose interpretation, something or someone of supernatural nature behind/created the workings of the universe.

I cant see the word god in "any" context that doesnt yell supernatural and have any reason behind it.

You keep trying to add stuff to a very simple concept.
The universe exists, therefore God. That's it. No supernatural anything. No moral code, no afterlife, no angels, no anything.
There may be things and concepts in the natural world we currently don't know about, but do exist. In fact, I'm sure that there are. But we don't know about them. So making claims is wrong.
There just isn't anything theological about this.
Tom

Its like that common example with the purple unicorns...

Agnostic: Unicorns may exist, no proof

Athiest: Unicorns do not exist

Theist: Unicorns exist

Pantheist: Everything and one makes up the unicorns existence

Creator-oriented believers: Unicorns created everything and everyone in existence.

Eastern oriented faith: The unicorn exist inside you

All of these explanations are giving metaphysical or supernatural relationship with the existence, nature, and definition of the unicorn.

If the unicorn exists based on Reason Alone, by what Non metaphysical reason does assertion exist? How does a diest define God?

 

[Tyho]

Does diesm stand on its own feet as a philosophy or is it only based on the objections of faiths with doctrines and followers?

Deism stands of it's feet by it's rational belief in God. It is a simple philosophy, yet very relevant in the world we live in. It is the belief in God based on reason, observation and/or intuition, which the Deist believe are sufficient to accept this possiblity. There is no need of a 'middle-man' in this case.

Deism distinguish himself from the various religious currents but the rejection on sacred texts, revelations, miracles, dogma ect. It does not define itself according to opposite, but Deists feel the need to make a distinction because too often a belief in God is associated with religion by default.

From non deist view, that seems like trying to stay away from all supernatural stuff but keep only one thing, god. Wouldnt god (regardless of faith or philosophy) be a supernatural idea by itself? How can you take away all supernatural stuff and still say there is a creator? Unless its pantheism? The universe Is God? If not, Im still at a lost.

While God *may be* supernatural (some believe God could be an aspect of nature we don't yet understand) deists are unanimous in their belief that the Creator has rational motivations, and so that is reflected in it's Creation. The Universe is therefore evolving according to it's own natural laws, which science can help us understand. There are no need for supersititions, revelations ect. in order to understand our place in the Universe.

 

[Tyho]

Yes, a god image based on reason.
The universe exists, therefore God. Period. No anthropomorphic characteristics ascribed to the image. Nothing supernatural involved. No reincarnation, no superhuman morals, no nothing.

I would just add that some Deists believe in reincarnation, but these people are more often refered to as 'Spiritual Deists'.

As long as you came to your metaphysical beliefs by reason, observation, intuition than you remain a Deist.

It might be usefful to disitnguish the most important branch of Deism:

- (Classical) Deism: A Creator set forth the Universe so that it can evolve according to it's own natual laws, there is no longer any need of supernatural interventions that could impede the Creation's free will.

- Pandeism: A Creator did set forth the Universe but didn't leave it, instead completely became the Creation. In this view, God is seen as the uncounscious aspect of the Universe, and since God became the Universe, then there is simply no need of supernatural interventions.

-Panendeism: The Universe is inside our Creator, we are in God. We are part of a self-evolving and co-creative process, our reality is included in this overarching structure that is God. So in this view God is the Universe but also greater than it.

- Spiritual Deism: A more ''Buddhist-like'' approach to (Classical) Deism, where emphasis is put on spirituality, meditation, and maybe even karma, reincarnation ect if one consider these metaphysical theories reasonable to believe in. That's what freethinking is about.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That sounds like naturalistic pantheism or some sort of similar mix. If God is the universe, why not just say the universe created us? Why use "God language" in describing the creation of the universe given, in deism, it isn't a supernatural God (of any type of definition) but that of, um, reason?

God and reason don't go in the same sentence if you took the Creator (a noun--a person or some sort or "thing" that creates) from its supernatural definition (which is its origin) and tried to redefine her or him or it by reason.

Actually,that also sounds like a deist is an atheist who believes in God.

The Universe is therefore evolving according to it's own natural laws, which science can help us understand. There are no need for superstitions, revelations ect. in order to understand our place in the Universe.

The universe does it's own thing without labeling it as God or anything that even mirrors words that came from superstitions, revelations, and supernatural concepts. Deism seems to try and keep the word God and reject it's origin, which is that of superstition, and redefine it under a scientific label rather than calling it as it is: the universe created us and the natural laws define how we live.

From observation, it seems deism is trying to keep the "God language" but reject the origin and superstition that goes along with it. Right?

 

[Tyho]

That sounds like naturalistic pantheism or some sort of similar mix. If God is the universe, why not just say the universe created us? Why use "God language" in describing the creation of the universe given, in deism, it isn't a supernatural God (of any type of definition) but that of, um, reason?

Pandeists believe that a Creator did set forth our Universe before completely becoming the Creation. Not so for Pantheism, where God is everything, there is no 'creation' or 'beginning' since All is God. In Pandeism, a Deity created our world before fully merging with it.

Pandeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From observation, it seems deism is trying to keep the "God language" but reject the origin and superstition that goes along with it. Right?

That's right. Deists think that ancient texts, doctrines, dogmas ect. are unecessery in order to form a coherent philosophy of God. Deists focus on a God Theory that relies instead on scientific understanding, reason, observation and/or intuitive thinking. Deist are of the opinion that the idea of 'God' is still very much a relevant concept worth believing in so as to explain the great mystery of our very existence and that of our Universe as a whole but one that has been plagued by supersititions, irrational thinking and extraordinary claims with no evidence for too long.

But the deist will no hesitate to change or drop his beliefs if ever proven wrong. That's because his beliefs are elaborated from reason, he doesn't have any source of authority, or 'middle-man' telling him what Is and what Is not. He is a freethinker.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How can God be believed by reason?

Pandeists believe that a Creator did set forth our Universe before completely becoming the Creation. Not so for Pantheism, where God is everything, there is no 'creation' or 'beginning' since All is God. In Pandeism, a Deity created our world before fully merging with it.

Pandeism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That's right. Deists think that ancient texts, doctrines, dogmas ect. are unecessery in order to form a coherent philosophy of God. Deists focus on a God Theory that relies instead on scientific understanding, reason, observation and/or intuitive thinking. Deist are of the opinion that the idea of 'God' is still very much a relevant concept worth believing in so as to explain the great mystery of our very existence and that of our Universe as a whole but one that has been plagued by supersititions, irrational thinking and extraordinary claims with no evidence for too long.

But the deist will no hesitate to change or drop his beliefs if ever proven wrong. That's because his beliefs are elaborated from reason, he doesn't have any source of authority, or 'middle-man' telling him what Is and what Is not. He is a freethinker.

 

[Tyho]

How can God be believed by reason?

Look around you at nature, in a telescope or a in a science book. The Big Bang, the massive cicles of starbirth and stardeath generating heavy elements which permit our existence, the diversity of life, consciousness, love; all that which is encompassed in the sheer complexity of the cosmos.

By reason, observation, and/or intuition it makes sense to believe that there is a Higher Purpose or Reality from which this world emanates. A Deist might call it God for lack of a better term, or because it is inded a common word that is understood by most.

Click on this short Youtube video if you want to hear a Deist lay out his theory of 'God':

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Using the word God confuses the issue. There doesnt need to be any "supernatural association" to the universe or life. To equate it to a creator by itself makes it supernatural. Take the creator away and see it as it is, then you have an athiest who appreciates life in all aspects of the word. Once you say creator, external or not, it implies the universe doesnt stand alone. It must have a "creator" to make it into existence no matter how one defines creator. It sounds supernatural to me. Call it as it is.

A diest sounds like a naturalistic athiest holding on to god concepts and language without attaching this creator notion to supernatural origins.

Why hold on to god language? Creation is beyond that.

Look around you at nature, in a telescope or a in a science book. The Big Bang, the massive cicles of starbirth and stardeath generating heavy elements which permit our existence, the diversity of life, consciousness, love; all that which is encompassed in the sheer complexity of the cosmos.

By reason, observation, and/or intuition it makes sense to believe that there is a Higher Purpose or Reality from which this world emanates. A Deist might call it God for lack of a better term, or because it is inded a common word that is understood by most.

Click on this short Youtube video if you want to hear a Deist lay out his theory of 'God':

Why call it anything? If I were a diest and said "God exists" I am referring to something or someone outside of creation-the universe.

If God, to a diest, is the universe, thats pantheism.