He is Risen - The Evidence

[nPeace]

The only things I disagree on here would be ,i believe he was raised in the same physical body. ( yes a glorified one ,no less ) Because that's what it says . The other point would be, they were preaching the gospel of the ' kingdom ' which is distinct from the Gospel of grace we should preach today.

I'd like to hear why you believe that.
The Bible shows without any doubt, Jesus could not be recognized in person. Even his own relatives, and close associates, did not recognize him.
The Bible also shows that what dies is not raise as the same body, but is given a new body by God.
Also, the Bible says that Jesus was raised spirit.
So why do you think it was the same body?

 

[nPeace]

Then why even bother posting this OP. Clearly what you consider convincing is not remotely so for anybody who is already not a believer?

Why does anyone post what they believe on here?
Why do you argue for what you believe, when what you consider convincing, is not remotely so for anybody who is already not a believer?

 

[John1.12]

I'd like to hear why you believe that.
The Bible shows without any doubt, Jesus could not be recognized in person. Even his own relatives, and close associates, did not recognize him.
The Bible also shows that what dies is not raise as the same body, but is given a new body by God.
Also, the Bible says that Jesus was raised spirit.
So why do you think it was the same body?

Because Jesus literally says he will raise his own body up . John 2.19
Also Jesus clearly is recognised. T
Peter sees him on the shore . Jesus literally says he is flesh and bone and not a Spirit . When Jesus is not recognised its probably due to grief in the case of Mary . No one was expecting/ believed Jesus to rise from the dead ,including Peter .

 

[sayak83]

//I have had certain meditative experiences that indicate the above description is true. Which is the reason that I believe// And your challenging me on logic ?

Yes I am. My beliefs are logically and ethically consistent as well as experientially justified. I do not see logical or ethical consistency in the beliefs that you have about God. The idea of the necessity of a blood sacrifice to absolve sins seems logically absurd. From my pov, you believe in an absurd God.

 

[sayak83]

Why does anyone post what they believe on here?
Why do you argue for what you believe, when what you consider convincing, is not remotely so for anybody who is already not a believer?

To test whether my ideas and beliefs have flaws that I have overlooked so that I may improve upon them. If someone else finds them useful or informative or thought provoking, that is an added bonus.

That's my reason. Yours is?

 

[John1.12]

Yes I am. My beliefs are logically and ethically consistent as well as experientially justified. I do not see logical or ethical consistency in the beliefs that you have about God. The idea of the necessity of a blood sacrifice to absolve sins seems logically absurd. From my pov, you believe in an absurd God.

Yes I myself used to follow eastern practices since I was young, for about 15 years on and off . I can tell you about experiences that I had during those years that had me utterly convinced what I was following was true. The bible warns about this very thing, much to my surprise. I thought the bible had nothing to say against my superior knowledge and ' wisdom ' , what did that book have to say against my spiritual practices? A great deal .
Proverbs 14:12
King James Version

12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[nPeace]

To test whether my ideas and beliefs have flaws that I have overlooked so that I may improve upon them. If someone else finds them useful or informative or thought provoking, that is an added bonus.

That's my reason. Yours is?

Read the OP again. I mentioned the reason repeatedly in this thread... perhaps three times. Answering you, would make it four, and cause me to wonder .

 

[blü 2]

//Is God unable to do anything except according to someone else's rules?// No . Its by his own ' rules ' .

So you, like me, are absolutely clueless as to why it was necessary for Jesus to die.

Noted.

And your silence on

whether God is benevolent

and whether God is omnipotent

and whether human sacrifice is indeed a moral abomination

is equally eloquent. (Whose child are you burning this weekend, by the way?)

 

[sayak83]

Read the OP again. I mentioned the reason repeatedly in this thread... perhaps three times. Answering you, would make it four, and cause me to wonder .

You did. But the problem is none of us sees what is rational or reasonable or objective about it. And your answers seem to boil down to "it's in the Bible, which I believe, so it must be most rational and reasonable and objective".

 

[sayak83]

Yes I myself used to follow eastern practices since I was young, for about 15 years on and off . I can tell you about experiences that I had during those years that had me utterly convinced what I was following was true. The bible warns about this very thing, much to my surprise. I thought the bible had nothing to say against my superior knowledge and ' wisdom ' , what did that book have to say against my spiritual practices? A great deal .
Proverbs 14:12
King James Version

12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

You have forgotten that we discussed this already. Should I quote the Middle Discourses of Buddha again where he categorically warns of such self-deluded Creator God being? Or do I have to quote Hindu scripture about false God Asuras who repeatedly delude people into thinking that they are the true God?
What makes your scriptures more valid than mine?

 

[PearlSeeker]

The biggest evidence for Jesus really living after death is Paul's conversion (from prosecutor/liquidator to Christian) after meeting Jesus.

 

[sayak83]

The biggest evidence for Jesus really living after death is Paul's conversion (from prosecutor/liquidator to Christian) after meeting Jesus.

Are you saying nothing like the conversion of Paul happened in any other religion? You are aware of Ashoka in Buddhism? There are like a thousand such examples in every religion.

 

[John1.12]

So you, like me, are absolutely clueless as to why it was necessary for Jesus to die.

Noted.

And your silence on

whether God is benevolent

and whether God is omnipotent

and whether human sacrifice is indeed a moral abomination

is equally eloquent. (Whose child are you burning this weekend, by the way?)

Ok maybe your not receiving my reply s . Thats all I can think is happening here ?

 

[John1.12]

You have forgotten that we discussed this already. Should I quote the Middle Discourses of Buddha again where he categorically warns of such self-deluded Creator God being? Or do I have to quote Hindu scripture about false God Asuras who repeatedly delude people into thinking that they are the true God?
What makes your scriptures more valid than mine?

//What makes your scriptures more valid than mine?//
Basically I believe only one 'source' is ' valid ' . Valid in the sense of, coming from God . Some believe that not just one ' source ' ( Holy book ,if you will ) comes from God . i do not .With all the differences ,that would be illogical. So yes the discussion is ( imo ) Only one , come s from God . And I believe thats the bible. All other 'holy books ' ,sources, writings do not come from God .

 

[sayak83]

//What makes your scriptures more valid than mine?//
Basically I believe only one 'source' is ' valid ' . Valid in the sense of, coming from God . Some believe that not just one ' source ' ( Holy book ,if you will ) comes from God . i do not .With all the differences ,that would be illogical. So yes the discussion is ( imo ) Only one , come s from God . And I believe thats the bible. All other 'holy books ' ,sources, writings do not come from God .

You may believe what ever you want. Does not make it true. Just saying blood sacrifice for atonement is necessary for atonement does not make it true. You have to provide evidence and reasons to justify your beliefs. Otherwise they have no merit for others.

 

[John1.12]

You may believe what ever you want. Does not make it true. Just saying blood sacrifice for atonement is necessary for atonement does not make it true. You have to provide evidence and reasons to justify your beliefs. Otherwise they have no merit for others.

I believe the scriptures that say so .

 

[John1.12]

You may believe what ever you want. Does not make it true. Just saying blood sacrifice for atonement is necessary for atonement does not make it true. You have to provide evidence and reasons to justify your beliefs. Otherwise they have no merit for others.

You can lead a horse to water..you know the rest .

 

[blü 2]

Ok maybe your not receiving my reply s . Thats all I can think is happening here ?

Let's try again.

Question 1: Do you think that a real God, one with objective existence, exists?

Question 2: If so, do you think that this real God is benevolent towards humankind?

Question 3: Do you think that this real God is omnipotent?

Question 4: Do you think the sacrificing of a human to a deity, is a moral abomination? If not, what is your attitude to that practice?

Four nice clear on-the-point fully responsive answers should sort out any misunderstandings.

 

[sayak83]

You can lead a horse to water..you know the rest .

So basically it's just faith and you cannot defend it? Very well.

 

[sayak83]

You can lead a horse to water..you know the rest .

Same for Eastern practices....