Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
I'm just curious. Has it ever occurred to your minds?
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Have monotheists ever considered the possibility that Satan could be the good guy?
- Thread starter Buddha Dharma
- Start date
Satan is the good guy in Judaism... kinda.
In that he is just doing his job testing mankind, and did not 'fall' or rebel. He is just as righteous as any other angel.
In that he is just doing his job testing mankind, and did not 'fall' or rebel. He is just as righteous as any other angel.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Yes I was aware about the Jewish view. That answers my question from the Jewish perspective. Christians and Muslims seem to disagree.
I don't think Christians realize how much their views about Satan might make him sound good to non-Christians. As for Muslims well- the Quran doesn't allow for the conclusion of a good Satan. However, that same Quran makes Allah seem infinitely worse in relation to Satan.
I don't think Christians realize how much their views about Satan might make him sound good to non-Christians. As for Muslims well- the Quran doesn't allow for the conclusion of a good Satan. However, that same Quran makes Allah seem infinitely worse in relation to Satan.
CohenDavidson
Member
I could never see it that way. Based on the Bible, we would have been free from labor, pain, death, grief, and all these other things that came along with sin. Including spiritual death. The Bible refers to Adam and Eve's eyes being open. This put shame into the world. It also put knowledge of the future. Since we are aware of the future, we are forever in slave to it. We work today, so we can sustain the future. Satan is the tempter who causes the occurrence of evil in the world.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I'd rather have my eyes open that be a mindless drone.
How are you defining this? As in a determinist sense that we know what is going to happen? An abstract notion that we know the future will happen? Or something else?
That's basically the set up of any social being, both for society and the individual.
Yet, who created him? Who, according to the Bible, gives him permission to do so and even says "go ahead and do it?"
Your question assumes "satan" is both real and in a sense an individual. Since I believe that the Divine is One, from my perspective that is not the case. "Satan" is a symbolic representation of the forces of darkness, evil, but not in any sense a separate identity. Therefore I don't accept the belief of those who believe in manichaeism, that there is a struggle between good and evil as separate beings.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Ouch
Although, the Bible does contain things in it about it's deity that a Buddhist would find morally abhorrent.
Liu
Well-Known Member
When I was a monotheist (if I every actually was), I didn't believe in Satan. That wasn't part of the very liberal and almost non-theistic kind of protestant Christianity around here, treating the whole bible as a neat collection of parables.
I think we did read Job in sunday school, but the interpretation was rather close to the Jewish view, if I recall that correctly.
I think we did read Job in sunday school, but the interpretation was rather close to the Jewish view, if I recall that correctly.
Dunno about Buddhism and Mara, but in some forms of Hinduism, Maya/illusion, which I would consider related to Mara, is equated with the Shakti-aspect of the divine, so...
Those who do are called Satanists.
For Christians, it is an impossibility to take that position.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Mara is overrated. ;0)
Liu
Well-Known Member
But isn't Buddhism about overcoming the illusion of reality and the delusion of desire? Thereby, those things are "evil" in Buddhism and what Mara tried to tempt the Buddha with.
Or that's how I understand it with not that much knowledge of Buddhism, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
I believe Nagarjuna identified the source of Mara's evil when he talked about the ancient war between the Devas and the Asuras. He was almost certainly drawing on the same tradition as the Mahabharata.
Mara is presented as the chief Asura. Because of his grudge with Indra and the Devas for losing, it is inferred Mara tries to entrap people in Samsara out of pure spite. He knows the gods following Indra care about humans, so he knows of no better way to hurt them, than through keeping humans bound and suffering.
Mara appears to be a being of pure hatred and spite, who will never forgive the gods.
In some alleged dialogues between Shakyamuni and Mara- the Buddha pities Mara most of all. Because Mara has been a spiteful devil for so long, he won't let it go. He tells the Buddha that he knows how redundant and ultimately pointless keeping things trapped is, but that he won't give it up because it's who he is.
Mara seems to refuse to change from what he told the Buddha. He's made the devil inseparable from himself, and played that part long enough, so that he cannot cast it aside.
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74x12
Well-Known Member
Do you know how many different sects of Judaism there are?
Lots. I'm aware there are exceptions and I should have said so, but it seems to be the dominating view. Kind of like most but not all Christians are Trinitarian.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Alright. Fair enough.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've had a couple of Satanist friends. Most moral people I've ever had the pleasure of conversing with. I still mourn the loss of one of them.
I can't play for Satan's team because I think he's a jerk. However, the bible provides Satanists with tons of ammo for their position, so I don't fault them for it at all.
So, Mara is essentially the poster child for the negative consequences of attachment?
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
One could say that, I reckon.