Hand grenade attack on refugee home in Germany

[mindlight]

That's because many Germans acted retarded in letting refugees into that country. What you are calling racist is called self-preservation.

I think you misunderstand the motivations here:

1) The constitution compels Germany to admit genuine asylum seekers
2) This is a deliberate act of compassion
3) Germany has a looming demographic crisis which net immigration can resolve. Basically it is not having enough babies
4) The vast majority of immigrants have been no trouble at all

Also when a German lobs a hand grenade based on a racism that comes down to hear say there is something very wrong with that German. Do not blame the victim for the protagonists crime.

 

[Smart_Guy]

My understanding is that some 500,000 Syrians are in Saudia Arabia. They are not called refugees cause Saudi is not a party to the UN Refugee treaty. But also the Saudis fear sectarian violence against their wahabbist regime. Indeed across the Middle East things are so tense between different ethnic and religious groups that no one wants to tip the balance in favour of their local rivals.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-04/why-don-t-gulf-states-accept-more-refugees-

Not to mention that Syrian residents in Saudi Arabia are in big numbers already and they most likely officially brought members of their families here. At least in the company I work for I personally know, mostly only by face not name, like 10 of them.

1. Calm the **** down
2. it didn't explode
3. police keeps quiet whether it was actually armed aka the pin removed
4. especially after the lie of the dead refugee in Berlin and the left politician who faked a far-right knife attack I'd be extra careful with an early judgement of who it actually was

I won't calm down until we have that date!

 

[9Westy9]

Also when a German lobs a hand grenade based on a racism that comes down to hear say there is something very wrong with that German. Do not blame the victim for the protagonists crime.

So were the thousand or so immigrants who took part in the sexual assault of women on New years eve doing so because they are racist, or is it just the Germans who threw the grenade that are racist?

 

[Flankerl]

1) The constitution compels Germany to admit genuine asylum seekers

And under the constitution people who flee from civil war are not eligible for asylum in Germany.

Oups!

2) This is a deliberate act of compassion

Which wasn't supported by the majority and spearheaded by exactly one person.

3) Germany has a looming demographic crisis which net immigration can resolve. Basically it is not having enough babies

And? Importing vast numbers of uneducated people won't fix that problem as they only cost money.
They also won't find work most of the time since Germany has already quite some unemployed, not even educated Germans are sometimes able to get low-income jobs, work is getting more and more automated, etc etc etc etc

4) The vast majority of immigrants have been no trouble at all

Immigrants?
You have to make up your mind. Either you speak about asylum seekers or immigrants. One is temporary. The other isn't.

Also when a German lobs a hand grenade based on a racism that comes down to hear say there is something very wrong with that German. Do not blame the victim for the protagonists crime.

If you have information regarding the perpetrator please be so kind and give this information to the police.
Otherwise stop your speculations.

 

[mindlight]

And under the constitution people who flee from civil war are not eligible for asylum in Germany.

Oups!

Article 16a of the German basic law guarantees the right of asylum to genuine asylum seekers

Which wasn't supported by the majority and spearheaded by exactly one person.

Germany in August was far more supportive of this policy that it seems you care to admit

"Officials and others say that the attacks represent the sentiment of a minority. Polls show that 60% of Germans support taking in refugees, and there has been an outpouring of assistance across the country from volunteers who have donated food and clothing, set up websites to match migrants with employers and even housed some of the newcomers in their own homes."

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-migrants-20150901-story.html

And? Importing vast numbers of uneducated people won't fix that problem as they only cost money.
They also won't find work most of the time since Germany has already quite some unemployed, not even educated Germans are sometimes able to get low-income jobs, work is getting more and more automated, etc etc etc etc

Actually German business is crying out for workers and it is a structural weakness of the German economy. The current demographics threaten to make the welfare state and especially pensions unaffordable in the long run. In the long run immigration is usually beneficial for an economy. IN ten years time the current batch will be paying taxes just like everybody else.

Immigrants?
You have to make up your mind. Either you speak about asylum seekers or immigrants. One is temporary. The other isn't.

Germany needs both but yes there is a distinction.

If you have information regarding the perpetrator please be so kind and give this information to the police.
Otherwise stop your speculations.

What speculations the facts are what they are in the article I shared. I know people , sympathetic to the refugees, who live in the town and in their minds there is a direct connection between the events earlier in the week and the hand grenade incident. This link may yet be disproved - fine. But for now it seems a sound theory to follow.

 

[Flankerl]

Article 16a of the German basic law guarantees the right of asylum to genuine asylum seekers

The word genuine doesn't even exist in 16a.
"(1) Politisch Verfolgte genießen Asylrecht."
"(1) Persons persecuted on political grounds shall have the right of asylum."

Which excludes most coming here. That is also why there has been talk about bringing this in front of the Federal Constitutional Court since the crisis began.

Germany in August was far more supportive of this policy that it seems you care to admit

"Officials and others say that the attacks represent the sentiment of a minority. Polls show that 60% of Germans support taking in refugees, and there has been an outpouring of assistance across the country from volunteers who have donated food and clothing, set up websites to match migrants with employers and even housed some of the newcomers in their own homes."

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-migrants-20150901-story.html

Ah yes August. That was quite a while ago. Isn't it fun how times change?
Oh and most polls were 50/50 unless you speak about state media polls. Yeah they were showing massive support. No idea why they were so different.

Actually German business is crying out for workers and it is a structural weakness of the German economy. The current demographics threaten to make the welfare state and especially pensions unaffordable in the long run. In the long run immigration is usually beneficial for an economy. IN ten years time the current batch will be paying taxes just like everybody else.

Please tell me more about the country I live in.


Also you can't do this. Why? Not even the #WelcomeRefugees politicians of the Greens, SPD or Left still go around proclaiming that these people are the light to our demographic crisis. They used to do that in the beginning. But then it became clear that most coming here have no education at all and that the Syrian doctor/engineer is not so common as they once told us.

German business is crying out for workers? Yeah yeah just like they whine about there not being any qualified employees in Germany. In reality they just want to pay less wages.

In ten years they will be paying taxes? Hahaha where? In ten years there will be even more unemployed in Germany due to automation, if you actually know what that is.
90% of them will compete with low-income Germans. Those who already either have no Job, earn so little that they have to get state support, or work for a new employer every few months.
Also Merkel just said last week that they will be gone in max 3 years. Its of course a lie because they will never leave but hey she said it.

So yeah this won't end well.

Germany needs both but yes there is a distinction.

Congratulations on that.

What speculations the facts are what they are in the article I shared. I know people , sympathetic to the refugees, who live in the town and in their minds there is a direct connection between the events earlier in the week and the hand grenade incident. This link may yet be disproved - fine. But for now it seems a sound theory to follow.

Ah so people with a bias share their suspicions on who was it. No that's not really how it works.

And I know that the media already "knows" who was it. That's the entire problem and shows that they haven't learned anything from last week.

 

[mindlight]

So were the thousand or so immigrants who took part in the sexual assault of women on New years eve doing so because they are racist, or is it just the Germans who threw the grenade that are racist?

There are about 500 reported cases. Some of them are really quite vile. I think anyone convicted of sexual harrassment or rape should be deported. The Germans need a bit of backbone on this.

 

[mindlight]

The word genuine doesn't even exist in 16a.
"(1) Politisch Verfolgte genießen Asylrecht."
"(1) Persons persecuted on political grounds shall have the right of asylum."

Which excludes most coming here. That is also why there has been talk about bringing this in front of the Federal Constitutional Court since the crisis began.

That is not what the authorities seem to be actually doing. The rejection rate of Syrian Asylum applications is only 0,02%. The grounds for asylum is defined in the Asylum Act Section 3

Section 3
Recognition of refugee status

(1) A foreigner is a refugee as defined in the Convention of 28 July 1951 on the legal status of refugees (Federal Law Gazette II, pp. 559, 560) if he,

1. owing to well-founded fear of persecution in his country of origin on account of his race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group,

2. resides outside the country (country of origin)

a) whose nationality he possesses and the protection of which he cannot, or, owing to such fear does not want to avail himself of, or

b) where he used to have his habitual residence as a stateless person and where he cannot, or, owing to said fear, does not want to return.

(2) A foreigner shall not qualify as a refugee under paragraph 1 where there are serious reasons to believe that he

1. has committed a crime against peace, a war crime or a crime against humanity within the meaning of the international instruments drawn up for the purpose of establishing provisions regarding such crimes,

2. committed a serious non-political crime outside the federal territory before being admitted as a refugee, in particular a brutal act, even if it was supposedly intended to pursue political aims, or

3. acted in violation of the aims and principles of the United Nations.

Ah yes August. That was quite a while ago. Isn't it fun how times change?
Oh and most polls were 50/50 unless you speak about state media polls. Yeah they were showing massive support. No idea why they were so different.

You are very suspicious of the state authorities. You assume the worst when actually Merkels motives may not be that sinister. People are more tempered to the reality of refugees now though that is true.

Please tell me more about the country I live in.

Why not I live here too.

Also you can't do this. Why? Not even the #WelcomeRefugees politicians of the Greens, SPD or Left still go around proclaiming that these people are the light to our demographic crisis. They used to do that in the beginning. But then it became clear that most coming here have no education at all and that the Syrian doctor/engineer is not so common as they once told us.

Hey McDonalds does not need an education and the one in Stuttgart I passed through the other day was very short staffed. This is a long term investment. The real value will come with the children rather than the parents. Germanys real demographic crisis does not kick in for about 2 decades anyway

German business is crying out for workers? Yeah yeah just like they whine about there not being any qualified employees in Germany. In reality they just want to pay less wages.

In ten years they will be paying taxes? Hahaha where?

You are very cynical about German employers. German companies pay very well in my experience.

In ten years there will be even more unemployed in Germany due to automation, if you actually know what that is.

This is rather arrogant and ignorant at the same time. Robots and cool software applications liberate people from mundane tasks to do the more humanly creative tasks. The Luddites have always been proven wrong about automation.

90% of them will compete with low-income Germans. Those who already either have no Job, earn so little that they have to get state support, or work for a new employer every few months.

A great many low paid Germans need the challenge in my view. Their sense of entitlement is threatened by people with genuine needs I recognise that. But the real issues with these people are more likely their own inflexibility, resentment, lack of achievement and inability to adapt.

Also Merkel just said last week that they will be gone in max 3 years. Its of course a lie because they will never leave but hey she said it.

70% if all things go well. For these Germany is a safe haven for a time rather than the promised land

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH

So yeah this won't end well.

Just out of interest is your hostility to the refugees to do with the fact you are Jewish and most of these are Muslim with bad ideas about Israel and the Jewish people

Ah so people with a bias share their suspicions on who was it. No that's not really how it works.

And I know that the media already "knows" who was it. That's the entire problem and shows that they haven't learned anything from last week.

Well let us wait and see.

 

[aoji]

Earlier in the week Russian Germans had paraded in protest against immigrants in the wake of an alleged rape in Berlin of a 13 year old. Turns out the 13 year old girl made the story up. But the hatred of immigrants by all too many Germans is real enough.

Wasn't there about 100 rapes of German natives by Muslim immigrants at the time of the New Year?

 

[Flankerl]

That is not what the authorities seem to be actually doing.

And now read what many people have written and said in various publications from late last summer.

The Government has been going against the GG the entire time.

Section 3
Recognition of refugee status

(1) A foreigner is a refugee as defined in the Convention of 28 July 1951 on the legal status of refugees (Federal Law Gazette II, pp. 559, 560) if he,

1. owing to well-founded fear of persecution in his country of origin on account of his race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular social group,

2. resides outside the country (country of origin)

a) whose nationality he possesses and the protection of which he cannot, or, owing to such fear does not want to avail himself of, or

b) where he used to have his habitual residence as a stateless person and where he cannot, or, owing to said fear, does not want to return.

(2) A foreigner shall not qualify as a refugee under paragraph 1 where there are serious reasons to believe that he

1. has committed a crime against peace, a war crime or a crime against humanity within the meaning of the international instruments drawn up for the purpose of establishing provisions regarding such crimes,

2. committed a serious non-political crime outside the federal territory before being admitted as a refugee, in particular a brutal act, even if it was supposedly intended to pursue political aims, or

3. acted in violation of the aims and principles of the United Nations.

refugee =/= asylum seeker/claimer

You are very suspicious of the state authorities. You assume the worst when actually Merkels motives may not be that sinister. People are more tempered to the reality of refugees now though that is true.

Yeah after all that has come to light this month it is reaaaaaally weird to distrust the state media. Like really...

Why not I live here too.

And yet you seem to live in a bubble. Probably some city that is hip with the anglo expats.

Hey McDonalds does not need an education and the one in Stuttgart I passed through the other day was very short staffed. This is a long term investment. The real value will come with the children rather than the parents. Germanys real demographic crisis does not kick in for about 2 decades anyway

So you want to be more delusional than the delusional Greens, SPD or Left.
That is of course your choice.

You are very cynical about German employers. German companies pay very well in my experience.

So you don't know about the German Industry's meme of the Facharbeitermangel. Well good for you, though it shows how much you actually know about the country you live in.

And you do realise that this is about Jobs for low-income people right? Mahmoud from Syria won't go into IT Development or the Media.
And low-income jobs are magical in Germany. You should educate yourself about that perhaps.

This is rather arrogant and ignorant at the same time. Robots and cool software applications liberate people from mundane tasks to do the more humanly creative tasks. The Luddites have always been proven wrong about automation.

Very fascinating. Too bad that the Automation doesn't create more Jobs than it takes. Oh well. Who cares right?

A great many low paid Germans need the challenge in my view. Their sense of entitlement is threatened by people with genuine needs I recognise that. But the real issues with these people are more likely their own inflexibility, resentment, lack of achievement and inability to adapt.

Are you for real? Have low-income Germans killed your dog or something like that?
They have their Jobs. Now people come who will be far cheaper and thus these people will lose their Job.

Serves them right these entitled pricks! Thinking they can work in their own country.
After all the needs of foreigners is more important than those of the natives.

And then the idiots out there wonder when the lower classes switch from voting left-leaning to the right.

Holy crap do you honestly not realise the crap that you've written there? You are condemning poor people for being poor, just because they haven't "achieved" anything.
Holy crap... entitlement? Many can't even feed their families with their salary anymore. Others know they may lose their Job next day because... well because they are still in the first six months of their temporary contract.
Oh man I bet they feel totally entitled.

70% if all things go well. For these Germany is a safe haven for a time rather than the promised land

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH

They will all stay. It never was about safety in the first place. You can't come from safe country after safe country and still claim its about actually reaching a safe country.

Just out of interest is your hostility to the refugees to do with the fact you are Jewish and most of these are Muslim with bad ideas about Israel and the Jewish people

"Bad ideas". Ah yes. Bad ideas. But don't worry, seems they'll come for the Gentiles too.

Well let us wait and see.

Hehe.


PS: Out of sheer curiosity, what are you working as?
You don't have to answer.

 

[mindlight]

Wasn't there about 100 rapes of German natives by Muslim immigrants at the time of the New Year?

There are 20 rapes a day in Germany - most of them committed by Germans. My understanding was that 3 were alleged across the country to do with New Year assaults. The German definition includes sticking an unwanted finger in a vagina. There were a lot of assaults. The perpertrators need to be brought to justice but it seems a lot of people have no perspective on this.

 

[mindlight]

And now read what many people have written and said in various publications from late last summer.

The Government has been going against the GG the entire time.

refugee =/= asylum seeker/claimer

Yeah after all that has come to light this month it is reaaaaaally weird to distrust the state media. Like really...

And yet you seem to live in a bubble. Probably some city that is hip with the anglo expats.

So you want to be more delusional than the delusional Greens, SPD or Left.
That is of course your choice.

So you don't know about the German Industry's meme of the Facharbeitermangel. Well good for you, though it shows how much you actually know about the country you live in.

And you do realise that this is about Jobs for low-income people right? Mahmoud from Syria won't go into IT Development or the Media.
And low-income jobs are magical in Germany. You should educate yourself about that perhaps.

Very fascinating. Too bad that the Automation doesn't create more Jobs than it takes. Oh well. Who cares right?

Are you for real? Have low-income Germans killed your dog or something like that?
They have their Jobs. Now people come who will be far cheaper and thus these people will lose their Job.

Serves them right these entitled pricks! Thinking they can work in their own country.
After all the needs of foreigners is more important than those of the natives.

And then the idiots out there wonder when the lower classes switch from voting left-leaning to the right.

Holy crap do you honestly not realise the crap that you've written there? You are condemning poor people for being poor, just because they haven't "achieved" anything.
Holy crap... entitlement? Many can't even feed their families with their salary anymore. Others know they may lose their Job next day because... well because they are still in the first six months of their temporary contract.
Oh man I bet they feel totally entitled.

They will all stay. It never was about safety in the first place. You can't come from safe country after safe country and still claim its about actually reaching a safe country.

"Bad ideas". Ah yes. Bad ideas. But don't worry, seems they'll come for the Gentiles too.

Hehe.

PS: Out of sheer curiosity, what are you working as?
You don't have to answer.

So you distrust the government, hate Muslims and think I am some kind of rich expat with no connection to the huddled Impoverished German masses. Government and the big corps sound like the bad guys and the migrant import is all about increasing Germanys global big firm competitiveness by increasing the downward pressure on wages.....umm... Nah

Germans have had things real easy for a long time. It is interesting that some of the strongest opposition to helping the poor and the broken is coming from those who consider that title belongs to themselves. But sorry it does not wash - these refugees have genuine needs. A german single mum can get a 80m2 flat off the state, free health care and education and enough to live off. There are jobs out there but sometimes you have to get on your bike and move town to find one!

By the way my religious convictions lead me to the full support of an undivided Israel and a regard for the Jews as a people set apart by God for his purpose. A purpose that will ultimately lead the best of them into the church. It mainly makes me pro Jewish rather than pro Palestinian for instance even though I empathise with Christian Palestinians.

You may not see it but I believe this country needs a wake up call. This migrant crisis challenges both the entrenched privilege and selfishness of conservatives and the delusions and deep sense of socialistic entitlement that prevails on the left. The country needs babies and a feeling of concern for others, a new hope about the future and a challenge to grow towards that hope. Merkels safe haven vision ticks off a lot of boxes in my view.

 

[Deathbydefault]

So humans that believe in gender equality and behaving civilized is the same as people who worship a pedophile and believe women are second class?

Some humans are better then others. The way you see it is wrong.

Did I say that? I don't even think I implied it. I said humans are all equally pathetic in the exact same way.

I was talking about versions of humans, e.g. race. The way i see it is the way I see it, neither wrong nor right.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I doubt the girl made up such a story that ties so heavily into the bias against these refugees.
Her racist parents obviously had some part to play in it.

The way I see it: humans are humans and are all equally pathetic in the exact same way.
To act like one version of humans is better than another is, by my belief and the slang usage of this word, retarded.

Well said. Haha.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, keeping fighting among yourselves. Good little zombies.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

A great many Germans are reacting in racist ways to the influx of refugees to this country. Recently someone threw a hand grenade into a refugees home in small town Germany. Earlier in the week Russian Germans had paraded in protest against immigrants in the wake of an alleged rape in Berlin of a 13 year old. Turns out the 13 year old girl made the story up. But the hatred of immigrants by all too many Germans is real enough.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160129/refugee-home-attacked-with-hand-grenade
http://www.thelocal.de/20160129/girl-at-centre-of-rape-row-spent-night-by-friend-police-say

Doing that was wrong.

However they more than likely did it out of fear of radicals rather than racism.

 

[Smart_Guy]

There are 20 rapes a day in Germany - most of them committed by Germans. My understanding was that 3 were alleged across the country to do with New Year assaults. The German definition includes sticking an unwanted finger in a vagina. There were a lot of assaults. The perpertrators need to be brought to justice but it seems a lot of people have no perspective on this.

Agreed.

It's unfortunate that once someone other than them do the rape, people around the world judge a whole group of the offender.

I wonder why don't people judge all Germans for the 20 rapes a day while for the immigrants it's all of the immigrant's fault! Hmmm! Double standards?

 

[Flankerl]

So you distrust the government, hate Muslims and think I am some kind of rich expat with no connection to the huddled Impoverished German masses. Government and the big corps sound like the bad guys and the migrant import is all about increasing Germanys global big firm competitiveness by increasing the downward pressure on wages.....umm... Nah

Nice job making stuff up.

Oh and it was autumn last year when the Arbeitgeberverband came with the idea to exempt asylum seekers from the minimum wage. But its probably all just in my head.

Germans have had things real easy for a long time. It is interesting that some of the strongest opposition to helping the poor and the broken is coming from those who consider that title belongs to themselves. But sorry it does not wash - these refugees have genuine needs. A german single mum can get a 80m2 flat off the state, free health care and education and enough to live off. There are jobs out there but sometimes you have to get on your bike and move town to find one!

"enough to live off". Ah yes ALGII lets you live like a king! Amazing. Nice to hear.
And the Jobcenter won't let her have a 80m² flat. But hey keep imagining stuff.

By the way my religious convictions lead me to the full support of an undivided Israel and a regard for the Jews as a people set apart by God for his purpose. A purpose that will ultimately lead the best of them into the church. It mainly makes me pro Jewish rather than pro Palestinian for instance even though I empathise with Christian Palestinians.

I quite literally farted while I read this. If you want to talk about Religion there is quite the big area for it upstairs.

You may not see it but I believe this country needs a wake up call. This migrant crisis challenges both the entrenched privilege and selfishness of conservatives and the delusions and deep sense of socialistic entitlement that prevails on the left. The country needs babies and a feeling of concern for others, a new hope about the future and a challenge to grow towards that hope. Merkels safe haven vision ticks off a lot of boxes in my view.

Yeah yeah I know all these entitled low-income Germans. Living in their apartment blocks, not earning enough for their families. Man they sure have it good.

You literally hate poor people and that is disgusting.

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

3) Germany has a looming demographic crisis which net immigration can resolve. Basically it is not having enough babies

Paying other people, that have poor education and barbaric customs to have babies instead of promoting your own isn't exactly the brightest of ideas. Russia has financial incentives to have babies without relying on immigration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_bonus

Just out of interest is your hostility to the refugees to do with the fact you are Jewish and most of these are Muslim with bad ideas about Israel and the Jewish people

So you don't think that not wanting to see your mother, sister or daughters gang-raped sufficient reasons? Disproportionate social service use, housing blight and crime. That's not enough justification?

 

[mindlight]

Paying other people, that have poor education and barbaric customs to have babies instead of promoting your own isn't exactly the brightest of ideas. Russia has financial incentives to have babies without relying on immigration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_bonus

Germany has been trying to promote a child friendly environment for a decade with next to no improvement. There is more that they could do but this is not a political problem. It is a German cultural problem. Selfish or stressed out people have no interest in the responsibility of reproducing.

Babies are babies and there are no genetic reasons why brown babies cannot be as successful as white ones.

So you don't think that not wanting to see your mother, sister or daughters gang-raped sufficient reasons? Disproportionate social service use, housing blight and crime. That's not enough justification?

But they stand more chance of being raped by Germans than by immigrants. Despite the shock of Cologne the immigrants have not boosted the stats significantly. But of course I feel protective about the women in my life. The rules need to be changed to get these guys working asap