God wants everyone to be saved

[Trailblazer]

When Christians have told me that the Bible says that God wants everyone to be saved, I have disagreed with them, saying that God does not care if everyone is saved. Now I have to retract my what I said previously because I stumbled upon these passages that say God wants everyone to be saved.

“GOD hath, at all times and under all conditions, been wholly independent of His creatures. He hath cherished and will ever cherish the desire that all men may attain His gardens of Paradise with utmost love, that no one should sadden another, not even for a moment, and that all should dwell within His cradle of protection and security until the Day of Resurrection which marketh the dayspring of the Revelation of Him Whom God will make manifest.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 86​

I do not believe in an original sin committed by Adam and Eve that we need to be saved from. According to my beliefs we are ‘saved’ through knowledge of God and nearness to God, in this life and the hereafter. God has given everyone the opportunity to be saved by revealing Himself through His Manifestations and calling for acceptance of the next Revelation and the next Book.

“The Lord of the universe hath never raised up a prophet nor hath He sent down a Book unless He hath established His covenant with all men, calling for their acceptance of the next Revelation and of the next Book; inasmuch as the outpourings of His bounty are ceaseless and without limit. VI, 16”​

Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 87​

 

[sun rise]

I don't accept the idea that there is anything to be saved from except perhaps having to learn from experience. Some may learn through suffering because that is their teacher. But once the lesson is learned, the suffering ceases.

 

[Trailblazer]

But once the lesson is learned, the suffering ceases.

I sure hope so since I have learned many lessons.

 

[Mr. Ed]

It is odd that god invented sin so people would need god for forgiveness and entrance to god's favor. The church provides the remedy for sin and by support and devotion you can be the chosen one for everlasting life, nobody thought to ask if they wanted to live forever. The streets of gold and great mansions? If this is the case I choose my place outside of the pearly gates.

 

[Stevicus]

When Christians have told me that the Bible says that God wants everyone to be saved, I have disagreed with them, saying that God does not care if everyone is saved. Now I have to retract my what I said previously because I stumbled upon these passages that say God wants everyone to be saved.

“GOD hath, at all times and under all conditions, been wholly independent of His creatures. He hath cherished and will ever cherish the desire that all men may attain His gardens of Paradise with utmost love, that no one should sadden another, not even for a moment, and that all should dwell within His cradle of protection and security until the Day of Resurrection which marketh the dayspring of the Revelation of Him Whom God will make manifest.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 86​

I do not believe in an original sin committed by Adam and Eve that we need to be saved from. According to my beliefs we are ‘saved’ through knowledge of God and nearness to God, in this life and the hereafter. God has given everyone the opportunity to be saved by revealing Himself through His Manifestations and calling for acceptance of the next Revelation and the next Book.

“The Lord of the universe hath never raised up a prophet nor hath He sent down a Book unless He hath established His covenant with all men, calling for their acceptance of the next Revelation and of the next Book; inasmuch as the outpourings of His bounty are ceaseless and without limit. VI, 16”​

Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 87​

I never could get my head around the concept of being "saved." Saved from what? If God created the universe and everything around us and determined the conditions under which we would live, then we're being saved from something God created? Would we have been doomed if God had not created us in the first place?

Or perhaps it means being "saved" like a computer file. If we are like programs, perhaps the good programs get "saved," while the others go the "recycle bin."

 

[Trailblazer]

It is odd that god invented sin so people would need god for forgiveness and entrance to god's favor. The church provides the remedy for sin and by support and devotion you can be the chosen one for everlasting life, nobody thought to ask if they wanted to live forever. The streets of gold and great mansions? If this is the case I choose my place outside of the pearly gates.

I do not think that God invented sin. Man sins, God points that out, and the church 'claims' they have the remedy.
I do not believe that heaven is lined with streets of gold and great mansions, or that there are pearly gates, since I don't believe there is anything physical in heaven. I believe these are only allegories that were used to symbolize a place most people would want to go to in order to keep people believing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I never could get my head around the concept of being "saved." Saved from what?

The concept of being saved comes from Christianity. If you are a Christian you believe you need to be saved from the original sin of Adam and Eve and you are saved by the cross sacrifice of Jesus. How those two things got linked I don't know. Although Jesus spoke of sin, Jesus never said anything about any original sin. It never made much sense to me either since I don't believe the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is literally true. I believe it is an allegory.

If God created the universe and everything around us and determined the conditions under which we would live, then we're being saved from something God created? Would we have been doomed if God had not created us in the first place?

In a way that is true. We need to be saved because of the conditions that God created that cause us to sin and need saving. If there was no material world there would be no way to sin so there would be nothing to be saved from. Tricky God isn't He?

Or perhaps it means being "saved" like a computer file. If we are like programs, perhaps the good programs get "saved," while the others go the "recycle bin."

In a way that is true. The good souls get saved and go to heaven and the bad souls go to hell, which is kind of like the recycle bin, except that they don't get recycled. They continue to exist in hell, which is a state of the soul that is far from God, not a geographical location.

 

[danieldemol]

If God hands out salvation it should be to whoever desires it for as long as they desire it in my view.

Anything less would amount to injustice in my opinion.

 

[1213]

When Christians have told me that the Bible says that God wants everyone to be saved, ...

the reason to believe so is that God sent Jesus. If he would not want everyone to be saved, He would probably not have done that.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God hands out salvation it should be to whoever desires it for as long as they desire it in my view.

Anything less would amount to injustice in my opinion.

If God hands out salvation it should be to whoever has earned it.

Anything less would amount to injustice in my opinion.

 

[Mr. Ed]

I do not think that God invented sin. Man sins, God points that out, and the church 'claims' they have the remedy.
I do not believe that heaven is lined with streets of gold and great mansions, or that there are pearly gates, since I don't believe there is anything physical in heaven. I believe these are only allegories that were used to symbolize a place most people would want to go to in order to keep people believing.

As far as religion goes it is hard for me to believe based on indirect sources. The bible is proven to be inaccurate but remains the primary source of what is known as god's word. The old testament reveals god has a temper and is easily angered by humans so he punishes the guilty. No wonder makes a different impression than Jesus's profile.
Do you think writers introduced Jesus as an exact opposite of god, like personal savior to get around god's anger and wrath? Why was the bible written in the first when the information is more destructive than positive feedback? The bible is not exactly cheerful reading, correct if I am wrong. The bible points out your flaws, tells you to replace sinful flaws and be like Jesus, however, the information about Jesus is limited and doesn't give readers a complete view of his life.

With this incomplete view of Jesus, people assume everything written in the new testament is accurate and so Christians are meant to be like Jesus with only part the information available. Who can be like Jesus? It's an unrealistic proposition that no one can achieve.

Religions are artist when it comes to dishing out guilt. Planting guilt in congregations and parishes demonstrates the need and future of religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. Both are made up in the reward and punishment delusion for maintaining control by submitting to rules and regulations of the bible.

I don't believe that heaven and hell are what Christians believe them to be according to the Bible because I am not a Christian.

 

[danieldemol]

If God hands out salvation it should be to whoever has earned it.

Anything less would amount to injustice in my opinion.

That is because your opinion is unjust given that people are a product of nature and nurture neither of which they earned, but which they received in my view.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is because your opinion is unjust given that people are a product of nature and nurture neither of which they earned, but which they received in my view.

People are a product of nature and nurture and the free will choices they make in adulthood which shape their personalities.
There is no reason why everyone should be saved, not unless they meet the criteria that God set forth. God does not set forth criteria for no reason.

Moreover, saved to a Baha'i means being close to God. How can someone who doesn't even know God be close to God? Why would they want to be close to God?

 

[Mr. Ed]

I don't believe that heaven and hell are what Christians believe them to be according to the Bible because I am not a Christian.
I am not concerned with heaven or hell because I do not believe exist. My idea of death is to stop living. Because I have not experienced death yet I honestly don't know what will happen.

I choose not to believe Christianity or the bible on the basis of faith because faith cannot be proven by conventional means of identification therefore to me does not exist. This is what I think and by no means absolute because I don't know.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

When Christians have told me that the Bible says that God wants everyone to be saved, I have disagreed with them, saying that God does not care if everyone is saved. Now I have to retract my what I said previously because I stumbled upon these passages that say God wants everyone to be saved.

“GOD hath, at all times and under all conditions, been wholly independent of His creatures. He hath cherished and will ever cherish the desire that all men may attain His gardens of Paradise with utmost love, that no one should sadden another, not even for a moment, and that all should dwell within His cradle of protection and security until the Day of Resurrection which marketh the dayspring of the Revelation of Him Whom God will make manifest.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 86​

I do not believe in an original sin committed by Adam and Eve that we need to be saved from. According to my beliefs we are ‘saved’ through knowledge of God and nearness to God, in this life and the hereafter. God has given everyone the opportunity to be saved by revealing Himself through His Manifestations and calling for acceptance of the next Revelation and the next Book.

“The Lord of the universe hath never raised up a prophet nor hath He sent down a Book unless He hath established His covenant with all men, calling for their acceptance of the next Revelation and of the next Book; inasmuch as the outpourings of His bounty are ceaseless and without limit. VI, 16”​

Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 87​

Wonderful, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If God hands out salvation it should be to whoever desires it for as long as they desire it in my view.

Anything less would amount to injustice in my opinion.

The key word there is desire.

It is the intention of our heart that is important. Salvation is found in that manner, it is not a desire for salvation, but a consequence of heart felt deeds and actions.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I am not concerned with heaven or hell because I do not believe exist. My idea of death is to stop living. Because I have not experienced death yet I honestly don't know what will happen.

None of knows what will happen after we die. All we have are various beliefs, and my beliefs say the afterlife is a mystery.

I choose not to believe Christianity or the bible on the basis of faith because faith cannot be proven by conventional means of identification therefore to me does not exist. This is what I think and by no means absolute because I don't know.

That is a fair statement.

 

[danieldemol]

People are a product of nature and nurture and the free will choices they make in adulthood which shape their personalities.

Freewill does not demonstrably exist in my view

There is no reason why everyone should be saved, not unless they meet the criteria that God set forth. God does not set forth criteria for no reason.

There is no reliable evidence that God set forth any criteria for salvation in my view.

Moreover, saved to a Baha'i means being close to God. How can someone who doesn't even know God be close to God? Why would they want to be close to God?

It means far more than just closeness to God, in my opinion.

Here are some examples of Baha'u'llah describing the station of those opposed to God;
'Thus hath the good of this world and of the next escaped thee, unless thou submit to the commandment ordained by God and be of them that are rightly guided.'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Pages 24-28

'They that have failed to turn unto the Countenance of God in this Revelation are indeed bereft of life. They move as bidden by their own selfish desires, and are in truth accounted among the dead.'
source:

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 67-83

reference.bahai.org

"Wretched shall be the abode of the transgressors!"

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 67-83

reference.bahai.org

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 279-285

reference.bahai.org

'The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish'

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 345-346

They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed.

Source: Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 169-172

So to summarise, Baha'u'llah promises those who deny that they will be amongst the spiritually dead, that their abode shall be wretched, that they would feel fear and sorrow and consternation as "nothing can exceed"

In short, salvation for a Baha'i is every good thing in the afterlife, whilst to be amongst those who are not saved is every bad thing in the afterlife in my opinion. So a non-Baha'i may desire good things of the afterlife even if they don't wish to stand beside your God.

 

[danieldemol]

The key word there is desire.

It is the intention of our heart that is important. Salvation is found in that manner, it is not a desire for salvation, but a consequence of heart felt deeds and actions.

Regards Tony

The intention of our heart is a product of our nature and nurture in my view Tony, thus only an unjust God would give us a certain nature and environment to nurture us then judge us for it in my view.

Regards,
Daniel