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God... He or She?

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It is not a fact that God does not exist, nor is it a fact that God exists.

It is also not a fact that God is effective ineffective since nobody can know what God is "doing" at any time.

All we know is what we see in this material world, and if people have certain expectations of what God 'should be doing', what God 'would be doing' if God existed, things they do not see happening, then they say God is ineffective. This is ego projection.

God is not dumb, deaf, or blind, and God is not mute, since God speaks through His Messengers.

The invisible God is hard to substantiate, I will give you that.
Let's look at the bottom line.

There is no God around that can be proven at all. None.

Nothing whatsoever in the actual waking world aside from a person who thinks God is real and resides in people's fantasies and imagination.

That's just the way it is.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Let's look at the bottom line.

There is no God around that can be proven at all. None.

Nothing whatsoever in the actual waking world aside from a person who thinks God is real and resides in people's fantasies and imagination.

That's just the way it is.
I cannot argue with that... There is nothing whatsoever in the actual waking world that proves that God exists.
I will only say that proof is not what makes God exist. Proof is only what 'some' people want in order to believe that God exists.

God could exist but if God does not provide any proof there will be no proof.
Judging by what I see I think that is the way it is. God does not provide proof because God wants our faith.
However, God does provide evidence because God does not want blind faith.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I cannot argue with that... There is nothing whatsoever in the actual waking world that proves that God exists.
I will only say that proof is not what makes God exist. Proof is only what 'some' people want in order to believe that God exists.

God could exist but if God does not provide any proof there will be no proof.
Judging by what I see I think that is the way it is. God does not provide proof because God wants our faith.
However, God does provide evidence because God does not want blind faith.
It's why In spite of my opinions will remain scientifically agnostic allowing anyone to present proof of god if they can.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It's why In spite of my opinions will remain scientifically agnostic allowing anyone to present proof of god if they can.
What does scientifically agnostic mean?'

Some believers believe they have proof but their proof is only proof to them.
It does not prove that God exists as a fact. That can never be proven.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So you don't believe in God because of evidence which contradicts there being a creator.
Can you name a few?

And may I ask..
Do you think that murdering people is wrong?
I'll tell you why I asked this question after your reply
The evidence is the complete absence of evidence, which of course in turn can be readily dismissed until any said evidence is adequately presented.

To the latter murder is wrong on true innocents as a human being, it's really a morality issue clearly, but killing itself is still a natural aspect of nature all around us, and has to be done sometimes based on any situation or circumstance that warrants or necessitates a lethal action.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What does scientifically agnostic mean?'

Some believers believe they have proof but their proof is only proof to them.
It does not prove that God exists as a fact. That can never be proven.
Same way science when concluding on something will always be open to accommodate new information that will reassess and adjust new information to refine their conclusions.

Science uses an agnostic approach and is always open rather than static and closed like many religions are.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
As a Christian my answer to this is quite simple actually..
You see, God is a creator who created human beings in his image.. Which also includes women too btw..
Therefore logically you will conclude that in the context of gender..God is neither.

Many therefore will go one to say that God's pronoun is 'it' , but as we know God is an omnipotent,all powerful, all knowing entity with conscience therefore he cannot be characterised that.

God the Father's love towards human beings is illustrated as having fatherly qualities.. As a protector.. And it also shows his superiority in comparison to his children.

Jesus is called the Son of God because he was inferior at the time to God the Father
Because Jesus humbled himself to be human and when in human form Jesus wasn't omni-present as he was (at the time) not in his spirit/spiritual form

Therefore we refer to God as a he

It, them, etc
VS
He and she

IMO...

It, them, etc are general references.

He and she are identifying/descriptive references

There is a difference.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Interesting.. according to your studies, which religion do you consider most reliable?

Ancient religions are the least reliable based on scriptures without provence and in ancient world view and culture. More contemporary religions Baha'i Faith offers amore universal perspective and guidance for today's world, but is also faced with the challenge of a changing world. Unitarian Universalists are more diverse in their beliefs and willing to accept change.

I prefer what I call a Universalist perspective not UU that considers the different religions in their context of their time and culture. The only knowledge that is consistently reliable and subject to change with new information

I agree that God created our physical reality in harmony with nature.
Harmony with Nature needs clarification, because Biblically this is not the accepted as the case concerning the scientific knowledge describes the nature of our existence.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That is an amazing point..
But I could also contradict this by also mentioning that Jesus said that he spoke in parables and other figures of speech..
Hence this could be a reason that God the Father is specifically mentioned as a 'he' for only theological reasons?

Ir is too consistent in the Bible that God the Father and those that believe in the Trinity for this to be subject to interpretation. Parables are rather specific.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
and actually -- we don't know even that much :) but ! -- what are the implications should you actually be made in the image the creator -- ====== the creator is not a God but an Alien who looks alot like you :()
Well, I do believe there is a God and that He/She created me.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Well, I do believe there is a God and that He/She created me.

OK -- but, what kind of God is this .. define this God that created you .. is this the all powerful, all knowing uncreated God ~ Ahura Mazda ? or is this an anthropomorphic God of lesser power that created you .. such as YHWH .. or Enki / Ea
 

RhySantos

Member
I do not understand what you mean by "in spiritual form.
When Jesus ascended into heaven he was no longer in human form.. When he was in human form Jesus wasn't omni present, therefore he was inferior to 'God the Father'.. By spirit form I am talking about the time Jesus was in heaven and not in human body

Also, what do you mean by equal? Equal in what way?
Remember I said "By spirit form I am talking about the time Jesus was in heaven and not in human body" By equal I was referring to the fact that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one
Therefore Jesus when he ascended to heaven he was "equal to God" Because he was God (because of the Trinity thing)


Excited to hear your opinion :D
 

RhySantos

Member
(Btw I don't want you to get offended I am just sharing my perspective to have a rational discussion and not enforcing my ideas on you)
The evidence is the complete absence of evidence, which of course in turn can be readily dismissed until any said evidence is adequately presented.
I can give you scientific evidence of God..
According to the big bang theory.. The universe has a beginning, and what could cause such a thing? Obviously something above space time and matter, because to create space time and matter the force that created the universe must be above space time and matter.
And based of my understanding fabricating a universe requires some form of conscience, therefore I proceed to conclude that the "force" or "entity" That created the universe is conscious and
that is what we call "God"

To the latter murder is wrong on true innocents as a human being, it's really a morality issue clearly, but killing itself is still a natural aspect of nature all around us, and has to be done sometimes based on any situation or circumstance that warrants or necessitates a lethal action.
But killing of one another is still a core paradigm in human belief, what gives us the ability to distinguish Good from Bad,
And how did the synthesis of consciousness take place?
As Nietzsche (the famous philosopher) said If we are just accidental cosmic entities what gives me morals, purpose, conscience, emotions for other human beings.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
When Jesus ascended into heaven he was no longer in human form.. When he was in human form Jesus wasn't omni present, therefore he was inferior to 'God the Father'.. By spirit form I am talking about the time Jesus was in heaven and not in human body
I believe that when Jesus ascended to heaven He took on a spiritual body, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:40-44, so Jesus was no longer in a physical body, He was in a spiritual body.

I do not believe Jesus is God. I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God on earth and remains a Manifestation of God in heaven.

As a Manifestation of God Jesus perfectly manifested certain of God attributes, such as Infallible, Benevolent, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient, but other attributes are unique to God.

Jesus cannot be God because only God is Sovereign, Eternal, Holy, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, and Self-Sufficient, and nobody except God can have those attributes.

To summarize, Jesus has many attributes of God, but Jesus is not God because Jesus does not have all the attributes of God.
Remember I said "By spirit form I am talking about the time Jesus was in heaven and not in human body" By equal I was referring to the fact that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one
Therefore Jesus when he ascended to heaven he was "equal to God" Because he was God (because of the Trinity thing)

Excited to hear your opinion :D
I do not believe that Jesus was or is equal to God because nobody is equal to God. God is one and alone with no equal.

I believe in a Trinity but I do not believe that the three persons were 'part of God' as the Trinitarians believe.

In brief, below is what I believe.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’

They work together, but they are separate, not ‘part of God.’ God cannot be divided into parts.

God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne.

God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.
 

RhySantos

Member
I believe that when Jesus ascended to heaven He took on a spiritual body, as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:40-44, so Jesus was no longer in a physical body, He was in a spiritual body.

I do not believe Jesus is God. I believe that Jesus was a Manifestation of God on earth and remains a Manifestation of God in heaven.

As a Manifestation of God Jesus perfectly manifested certain of God attributes, such as Infallible, Benevolent, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient, but other attributes are unique to God.

Jesus cannot be God because only God is Sovereign, Eternal, Holy, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, and Self-Sufficient, and nobody except God can have those attributes.

To summarize, Jesus has many attributes of God, but Jesus is not God because Jesus does not have all the attributes of God.

I do not believe that Jesus was or is equal to God because nobody is equal to God. God is one and alone with no equal.

I believe in a Trinity but I do not believe that the three persons were 'part of God' as the Trinitarians believe.

In brief, below is what I believe.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’

They work together, but they are separate, not ‘part of God.’ God cannot be divided into parts.

God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne.

God never descends to earth.
I respect your interpretation..
but if you say so.. You are denying scriptures "I am the alpha and omega.. The beginning and the end" And John 10:30
"I and the Father are one"
God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.
Again with all respect to your interpretation.. I interpret it this way..
In isaiah there is a verse which says that there will be a voice in the wilderness calling people to repent before the arrival of the Messiah.. This voice is referring to John the Baptist and the Messiah was Jesus.. Therefore John was fulfilling scripture and telling everyone that Jesus was the Messiah and not just for Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit.. Because scripture also mentions that the body is the temple of the holy Spirit
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
OK -- but, what kind of God is this .. define this God that created you .. is this the all powerful, all knowing uncreated God ~ Ahura Mazda ? or is this an anthropomorphic God of lesser power that created you .. such as YHWH .. or Enki / Ea
My God is an all powerful, all knowing, uncreated God (sorry, don't recognize most of those names). He or She can also take on basically any shape or form He or She wants to, so that's why I can confidently say that I am made in God's image.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
My God is an all powerful, all knowing, uncreated God (sorry, don't recognize most of those names). He or She can also take on basically any shape or form He or She wants to, so that's why I can confidently say that I am made in God's image.

Well .. while you can imagine what ever you like .. that doesn't make it true .. so this confidence is unfounded. If however this God is a shape shifter .. as you suggest .. then you are not in "Its" image --- .. you are only one of the infinite number of images this God can present.. and certainly you are not "Like US" .. US being not only this all powerfull God but all the other Gods taking part in the creation of humans.

So -- faulty logic -- that God can present a million images of itself .. and you happening to look like one of those images .. does not make you in the image of God .. in any non ridiculous sense of the word ..

God is everything as per your definition, you being part of everything does not make you in the image of God .. nor resemblent to God in any way shape or form other than the most minute of emanation .. further resemblent to God you are not.. nor are you "Like US" you are not like the all powerful God ... having nowhere near such capabilities in any way shape or form. nor are you like any other God .. because you are not a God.

You then go on to say that you are not familiar with the names of God's in the Bible .. including the Great God of the Israelites .. YHWH.. From where does your idea of God then come from .. what Holy Scripture.. or is it just imagination ?
 
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