God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

[Greatest I am]

God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

When man was given freedom and free choice, he rejoiced. Then God gave His commandments with the threat of punishment if His commandments and laws are not followed. These two concepts are incompatible. God gives up His -right- to command and then threatens those who do not follow His commands.

Debate-
Which is it? Are we free or are we slaves?

Regards
DL

 

[Scott C.]

God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

When man was given freedom and free choice, he rejoiced. Then God gave His commandments with the threat of punishment if His commandments and laws are not followed. These two concepts are incompatible. God gives up His -right- to command and then threatens those who do not follow His commands.

Debate-
Which is it? Are we free or are we slaves?

Regards
DL

You misunderstand free will. When God gives us free will, he does not give up the need to give us commandments, nor the need to impose consequences. Here's a simple example. I have the free will to jump out the window of the hotel I'm staying in tonight. I can jump or I can not jump. I am not free, however, to decide on what will happen to me when I hit the ground, should I decide to jump. If I jump, I will be subject to the law of gravity and other cause and effect. Does this imply I have no free will to jump or not to jump? No, it does not.

 

[DallasApple]

I agree with Scott...

The only problem I have is the punishment is for eternity..We have a few short years here...And if we dont do it right...then our soul in forever seperated from God..

Isnt that like telling my child that if he disobeys me I'll never speak to him again?

Love

Dallas

 

[Scott C.]

I agree with Scott...

The only problem I have is the punishment is for eternity..We have a few short years here...And if we dont do it right...then our soul in forever seperated from God..

Isnt that like telling my child that if he disobeys me I'll never speak to him again?

Love

Dallas

No, I don't think it would be fair to never speak to a child again. The Book of Mormon teaches that when we die, we will all recognize that the judgements of God are just. I like that teaching. We don't need to fear unjust treatment. God is just and merciful. When we come before our Maker, we'll recognize that. It will all be clear. That's what I believe.

 

[Greatest I am]

No, I don't think it would be fair to never speak to a child again. The Book of Mormon teaches that when we die, we will all recognize that the judgements of God are just. I like that teaching. We don't need to fear unjust treatment. God is just and merciful. When we come before our Maker, we'll recognize that. It will all be clear. That's what I believe.

Is it justice that a small sinner like you and I can only sin for 120 yrs and then spend 12000000000000000000000yrs in hell with the likes of Hitler?

Does not look fair to me.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You misunderstand free will. When God gives us free will, he does not give up the need to give us commandments, nor the need to impose consequences. Here's a simple example. I have the free will to jump out the window of the hotel I'm staying in tonight. I can jump or I can not jump. I am not free, however, to decide on what will happen to me when I hit the ground, should I decide to jump. If I jump, I will be subject to the law of gravity and other cause and effect. Does this imply I have no free will to jump or not to jump? No, it does not.

Then we are only free to follow the rules. Sounds strange to me.
In other words we are slaves.

Regards
DL

 

[dawny0826]

You have the freedom to either obey or disobey God's commandments. And if an individual doesn't believe in God or the punishments for sin...what's the problem?

 

[madcap]

God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

Well, clearly God doesn't force anyone to do as he commands. If he did, it wouldn't be possible to break the commandments, would it?

It is standard procedure for religions to establish some kind of moral code. For the ancient Hebrews, the Ten Commandments set some pretty sensible ground rules. To break them probably had more civil implications than eternal implications (because to the best of my understanding, Jews don't believe in hell).

I do wonder, though, if there's a penalty for not doing what the universe wants me to do, and if that penalty is suffering. I won't speak for everyone, but there have been times when I've felt strongly that I was in the wrong place, doing the wrong things with my life (not illegal or immoral; just, you know, having a job I didn't enjoy, etc.). Sometimes I feel like I'm being encouraged to make changes, and that when I ignore or reject that encouragement -- which I usually do -- then I just find myself feeling worse until I finally make some kind of change in the direction I was being guided.

That's not Ten Commandments and it's not the explicit commands of God -- but it's something.

 

[Katzpur]

God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

When man was given freedom and free choice, he rejoiced. Then God gave His commandments with the threat of punishment if His commandments and laws are not followed. These two concepts are incompatible. God gives up His -right- to command and then threatens those who do not follow His commands.

How has God forced us to obey Him? Obviously, a lot of people don't. What you seem to think is that "free will" is synonymous with "without any consequences." How did you come up with that interpretation?

 

[Katzpur]

Is it justice that a small sinner like you and I can only sin for 120 yrs and then spend 12000000000000000000000yrs in hell with the likes of Hitler?

Does not look fair to me.

It doesn't look fair to me either. Maybe that's why I don't believe it, and why my religion doesn't teach it.

 

[Greatest I am]

You have the freedom to either obey or disobey God's commandments. And if an individual doesn't believe in God or the punishments for sin...what's the problem?

None for me or my God. We all end with Him. That Christian God is the one with a hell.

I am an unrepentant sinner and I have no worries.

i just thought it strange that the Christian God would give freedom and then start giving commandments instead of requests to His free men.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Well, clearly God doesn't force anyone to do as he commands. If he did, it wouldn't be possible to break the commandments, would it?

It is standard procedure for religions to establish some kind of moral code. For the ancient Hebrews, the Ten Commandments set some pretty sensible ground rules. To break them probably had more civil implications than eternal implications (because to the best of my understanding, Jews don't believe in hell).

I do wonder, though, if there's a penalty for not doing what the universe wants me to do, and if that penalty is suffering. I won't speak for everyone, but there have been times when I've felt strongly that I was in the wrong place, doing the wrong things with my life (not illegal or immoral; just, you know, having a job I didn't enjoy, etc.). Sometimes I feel like I'm being encouraged to make changes, and that when I ignore or reject that encouragement -- which I usually do -- then I just find myself feeling worse until I finally make some kind of change in the direction I was being guided.

That's not Ten Commandments and it's not the explicit commands of God -- but it's something.

Your right all commandments can be broken. To me though if God gives freedom then He also gives up the right to punish.

Regards
DL

 

[madcap]

Your right all commandments can be broken. To me though if God gives freedom then He also gives up the right to punish.

Regards
DL

I don't think God punishes people.

 

[idea]

freedom is not free. Everyone knows that.

 

[Greatest I am]

How has God forced us to obey Him? Obviously, a lot of people don't. What you seem to think is that "free will" is synonymous with "without any consequences." How did you come up with that interpretation?

To me, if God gives freedom then He also gives up the right to punish.

When my children left home i gave them freedom. If they no longer make their bed, I have no right to punish them.

Works for me so it should work for God. We are much alike.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

It doesn't look fair to me either. Maybe that's why I don't believe it, and why my religion doesn't teach it.

What does yours do with sinners?

Regards
DL

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

When man was given freedom and free choice, he rejoiced. Then God gave His commandments with the threat of punishment if His commandments and laws are not followed. These two concepts are incompatible. God gives up His -right- to command and then threatens those who do not follow His commands.

Debate-
Which is it? Are we free or are we slaves?

Regards
DL

Uhh...becuase none of it is true....

There are no gods....

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't think God punishes people.

We agree.

Why not?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

freedom is not free. Everyone knows that.

What is our price?

Regards
DL

 

[idea]

What does yours do with sinners?

Regards
DL

They bring their misery on themself.

5 ...it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; ...
(Book of Mormon | Mormon 4:5)