gnosticism and reincarnation

[DanielR]

Hi,

I'm interested a lot in reincarnation and its importance in the different religions and philosophies.

I just wanted to know if there are schools in gnosticism that don't teach rebirth (or at least schools where it is not that important).

thanks

 

[ELoWolfe]

There really isn't much said about reincarnation, from what I read. The Gnostics (at least later Gnostics) believed that some men would be wiped out upon death, others would enter into a paradise of the Demiurge (or a "lesser heaven") and those who gained gnosis would unite with the father.

Someone can correct me, but reincarnation (or anything similar to it) is foreign to Gnosticism.

 

[DanielR]

Thanks a lot!

Doesn't the Gospel of Thomas say something about multiple lifetimes? What happens to people that don't reach Gnosis?

I know this would make for another topic, but is Gnosis similar to Enlightenment?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

There really isn't much said about reincarnation, from what I read. The Gnostics (at least later Gnostics) believed that some men would be wiped out upon death, others would enter into a paradise of the Demiurge (or a "lesser heaven") and those who gained gnosis would unite with the father.

Someone can correct me, but reincarnation (or anything similar to it) is foreign to Gnosticism.

The Apocryphon of John does teach reincarnation. Souls become trapped in the material universe even after death and then are incarnated again, so the Gnostic must be diligent and follow the Divine Mother after they die lest they enter the flesh again.

"Truly, you are blessed, for you have understood! That soul is made to follow another one, since the Spirit of life is in it. It is saved through him. It is not again cast into another flesh."

 

[DanielR]

But I take it it's not a mandatory belief (doctrine), is it??

What about Valentinianism?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

But I take it it's not a mandatory belief (doctrine), is it??

What about Valentinianism?

Nothing in Gnosticism is dogmatic.

As for reincarnation to the Valentinians? It's nightmare fuel, reincarnation is one of the worse things that could happen to a soul.

 

[DanielR]

Nothing in Gnosticism is dogmatic.

As for reincarnation to the Valentinians? It's nightmare fuel, reincarnation is one of the worse things that could happen to a soul.

But do they teach it? I only know of the three 'types' of souls, but it doesn't mention reincarnation

 

[CynthiaCypher]

But do they teach it? I only know of the three 'types' of souls, but it doesn't mention reincarnation

It's in the Apocalypse of Paul which is considered to be Valentian. It is viewed as a punishment.

But I saw in the fourth heaven according to class - I saw the angels resembling gods, the angels bringing a soul out of the land of the dead. They placed it at the gate of the fourth heaven. And the angels were whipping it. The soul spoke, saying, "What sin was it that I committed in the world?" The toll-collector who dwells in the fourth heaven replied, saying, "It was not right to commit all those lawless deeds that are in the world of the dead". The soul replied, saying, "Bring witnesses! Let them show you in what body I committed lawless deeds. Do you wish to bring a book to read from?"

And the three witnesses came. The first spoke, saying, "Was I not in the body the second hour [...]? I rose up against you until you fell into anger and rage and envy." And the second spoke, saying, "Was I not in the world? And I entered at the fifth hour, and I saw you and desired you. And behold, then, now I charge you with the murders you committed." The third spoke, saying, "Did I not come to you at the twelfth hour of the day when the sun was about to set? I gave you darkness until you should accomplish your sins." When the soul heard these things, it gazed downward in sorrow. And then it gazed upward. It was cast down. The soul that had been cast down went to a body which had been prepared for it. And behold, its witnesses were finished.

 

[DanielR]

Aw thank you, *frubals*

 

[DanielR]

I think I get EloWolfe's point now. I don't think Valentianism in particular teaches reincarnation, maybe Sethianism, but after some extensive reading I don't believe Valentinians taught it!

Thanks for all the replies though

 

[Abraxas365]

Ok I know this thread is pretty old but I just saw it. The answer to your question is yes, Gnosticism does teach reincarnation. Simon Magus who is sometimes seen as the founder of Gnosticism definitely taught reincarnation. I think the Ophites and Johannites taught it as well. In the Pagan religion of Mithraism (which has a number of things in common with Gnosticism and Christianity) reincarnation was taught there as well. Lets not forget our twin sister religion Hermeticism who was a big advocate on reincarnation.

If you think about it why wouldn't it be taught? Since the material world was seen to be the creation of the demiurge and the goal of a soul was to go back to the Pleroma (fullness of God or "Oneness") it seems highly likely that a lot of the ancient and original Gnostics did teach it. What would those who did not achieve Gnosis be doing? Reincarnation would be a definite answer.

 

[Whiterain]

Reincarnation is such a fabulous idea but it's ultimately difficult to believe. I've had several re-incarnation experience that just inflate my ego.

I hardly see it as punishment and more of a choice. The world is a twisted and chaotic place of beauty, decay and inconceivable corruption.

But I'll come back again. The toughest part is being a child then you grow up and all this information surges into your brain from past lives and you're mentally ill, so get on disability check, right. It's a decent age to live in and it's going to get better.

 

[Acala]

Many Gnostics believed in rebirth. The Apocryphon of John explains....

‘This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again.'

 

[Whiterain]

But re-incarnation as a choice is ultimately painful. Children face the utmost horrors.

Did I chose this life, I think I did, this gifted life. Did others choose their lives, I don't think so.

The ideal is ultimately absurd when Children chose to be reborn into suffering, or the natural world. No one accepts that.

 

[Acala]

I don't think I mentioned it was a good lifestyle choice anywhere Whiterain. Of course rebirth is a continuation of suffering, this is the fundamentals of Buddhism and Gnosticism, Hinduism and practically every religion in the World. No-one wants to be here unless they're successful, then they fear leaving.