Freedom to speak without offence, but why do some words carry an offensive meaning?

[Malus 12:9]

Even RF has it censored.

To ensure noone is offended. Many different types of people and religions browse this
forum. Allowing s..t as a normal word is a possible risk to potential members.:jiggy:

 

[michel]

Firstly, having been punished many a time by people in a position of power over me for saying words that THEY consider offensive even though I meant no offense in saying them, I am strongly for desensitising what I see as irrational connections which society gives to certain words.

Sexual/Obscene language
Censorship is breaking one of the most fundamental rights that a human can have, that of free speech. It is self fuelling (by that I mean a child who is coddled until he is older from certain things in the world will then go on to do the same because when he does come into contact with these things he will view them as unusual and therefore wrong. An example of this might be the stereotypical embarassment that a parent suffers when explaining to their child about sex), and therefore completely pointless. It leads to oppression and tyranny because it gives a large amount of power to those in power.

Racist/Intolerant language
I view political correctness as an essential part of society TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. However, I think that for offense to happen, it does not require 2 parties to be involved which is what most political correctness is aimed at limiting. If I use the word "******" when discussing the forms of abuses which blacks suffered in America during their fight for equality, an somebody listening to me is offended then that is their problem not mine. In this scenario offense was taken but not given. I should not have to sugar coat my words for anothers benefit. However, if I INTEND offense then it is an entirely different story.


I don't swear to "fit in". I swear because it is perfectly normal to use vocabulary that you hear in casual conversation. What am I trying to do when I communicate with somebody else? Swearing is only going to devalue my words if the person I am speaking to has a problem with it. As soon as somebody produces a wonderfully logical arguement showing me the inherent mental/physical harm that swear words produce in anyone who hears them then I promise I will be the first to denounce them as the spawn of Satan (okay maybe not quite that far but I'll definitely change my view dramatically).

Whilst I agree, to a point with what you have said, you are still using words that might be offensive to someone around you; it is your duty to sugar-coat obscenities unless you personally feel that there are plenty of other words that you could use instead of the tired four letter words, which are far more descriptive.

I would still 'play it safe' though, by not using words that might embarass anyone within my hearing range - that is, as I see it, out of respect.

 

[Fluffy]

Whilst I agree, to a point with what you have said, you are still using words that might be offensive to someone around you; it is your duty to sugar-coat obscenities unless you personally feel that there are plenty of other words that you could use instead of the tired four letter words, which are far more descriptive.

I would still 'play it safe' though, by not using words that might embarass anyone within my hearing range - that is, as I see it, out of respect.

Up until very recently I felt exactly the same as you Michel. That is to say that I felt it was my duty to ensure that people did not take offense at what I said EVEN if no offense was intended in my words. However, the difficulty for me came when I tried to reconcile this idea with 2 things that have become central to my philosophy now.

The first of these is the Golden Rule. If I am changing my language for others benefit then I must expect others to do the same for me. Yet I really don't expect them to do such a thing for me because it seems totally unfair on them. Its one of those cases where it seems like I am asking too much since I am asking everyone to act as a crutch for a problem which is essentially my own, my inability to deal with certain words. So if I can't expect others to do this for me then I shouldn't do it for other people if I am to stay true to myself.

The second is my belief that I should only help others to help themselves. I justify this on the basis that otherwise I will create a crutch for them, out of myself, leading to a false sense of security on their part, which can only lead to disaster. By sugar coating my words I am essentially doing this for them because I am helping them to avoid rather than deal with a problem, albeit a minor one. If they don't deal with this problem then they will be unable to interact with people who aren't prepared, and fairly so, to make a crutch out of themselves leading to intolerance on both sides, which, as I'm sure you are aware, is my biggest no-no.

Having said that I can totally understand your point of view and I think subconciously I still do the same as you because it has been ingrained in my way of thinking for so long. One major exception to this is swearing around my parents. I have now managed to desensitise them to swearing so they no longer are offended by it simply by swearing excessively around them. For me this is a vast improvement on me having to watch what I am saying around them for fear of admonishment.

 

[michel]

Hi Fluffy,


......... "If I am changing my language for others benefit then I must expect others to do the same for me.".........

I will argue that point on the basis that it implies 'do unto others as they do unto you' - whilst that is better than nothing, I personally 'Do unto others as I would wish them do unto me' - there is a world of difference between the two, and I am far more comfortable with the later dictum.

 

[Fluffy]

Hi Fluffy,


......... "If I am changing my language for others benefit then I must expect others to do the same for me.".........

I will argue that point on the basis that it implies 'do unto others as they do unto you' - whilst that is better than nothing, I personally 'Do unto others as I would wish them do unto me' - there is a world of difference between the two, and I am far more comfortable with the later dictum.

I use that definition as well except I often swap wish and expect around. I wish others would help me to help myself and not, maliciously or otherwise, create a dependancy on them and so I do the same for others.

 

[Crystallas]

Its like when your in lower grades at school. Every other kid is a tattletail. They need something to be wrong for them to feel more meaninful.
Well it seems like grown ups still feel that need. We need meaningless rules to carry on gossip, and something to judge people.

If someone wants to think less of me, then fine? I cant control the way they think, just as they cant control the words I choose, no matter how complex or simple or potentially offensive. People will judge and find something wrong with anything, and I can give a sh*t.
Its convinced me that most people have a form of OCD.

 

[Fluffy]

What is OCD, Crystallas?

 

[michel]

I wish others would help me to help myself

You need to find yourself in your own time; I am 56, and I'm not sure I've found myself totally - my body plays 'pain' tricks on me that are unexplainable - except as a sign, to me, that not all is 'right' in my mind.
A large part of 'finding yourself' is having the confidence to go with what you think, whilst keeping two feet on the fround.
The best (as far as I am concerned)Technique is to meditate - it's much like listening to a radio on short wave - there aren't thatmany stations, and you have to learn how to tune in, as well as how to get rid of interference.

Its like when your in lower grades at school. Every other kid is a tattletail. They need something to be wrong for them to feel more meaninful.
Well it seems like grown ups still feel that need. We need meaningless rules to carry on gossip, and something to judge people.

If someone wants to think less of me, then fine? I cant control the way they think, just as they cant control the words I choose, no matter how complex or simple or potentially offensive. People will judge and find something wrong with anything, and I can give a sh*t.
Its convinced me that most people have a form of OCD.

Most people do - most people have paranoia - and depression; include the physical ailments, and we probably suffer from a whole range of those too. The thing is not suffering from it - but the degree to which one suffers; when it then becomes a clinical ailment.
To quote Deut's way of saying things, "Hey, I own OCD"!

 

[Crystallas]

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

 

[Malus 12:9]

They need something to be wrong for them to feel more meaninful.
Well it seems like grown ups still feel that need. We need meaningless rules to carry on gossip, and something to judge people.
I cant control the way they think, just as they cant control the words I choose, no matter how complex or simple or potentially offensive. People will judge and find something wrong with anything,
.

All of this incredibly true

"No matter who you are
or what you you do
Others will see you how
they want to see you"

 

[Original Freak]

No one has even mentioned the posotives of swearing. When I'm mad, I've stubbed my toe, or my team has scored I find yelling out a giant f**k helps release and express my emotions much better and more staight forward. I know it's a completely mental thing, and that it's the affect society has on me towards that word, but damned if it doesn't work.

 

[Crystallas]

yeah, rather words than bruises. I didnt even think about that.

 

[Pah]

No one has even mentioned the posotives of swearing. When I'm mad, I've stubbed my toe, or my team has scored I find yelling out a giant f**k helps release and express my emotions much better and more staight forward. I know it's a completely mental thing, and that it's the affect society has on me towards that word, but damned if it doesn't work.

I get as much pain relief when I yell ARGGGGGH as when I did would yell what you would condone. I still see no excuse. A regular cheer expresses my sports joy. I see no excuse there either

 

[Original Freak]

Well we've learned to express ourselves in different ways. Growing up around old school military pesonaly I'm suprised I don't swear more quite frankly. When you cheer, and I yell f**k yeah, were expressing the same thing...just with different words. I also accept there are proper times and places for these words, as deemed acceptable by society and I usually stick to those rules, which is why perhaps these words seem so powerfull and tend to portray emotion so strongly and so bluntly.

 

[Pah]

Well we've learned to express ourselves in different ways. Growing up around old school military pesonaly I'm suprised I don't swear more quite frankly. When you cheer, and I yell f**k yeah, were expressing the same thing...just with different words. I also accept there are proper times and places for these words, as deemed acceptable by society and I usually stick to those rules, which is why perhaps these words seem so powerfull and tend to portray emotion so strongly and so bluntly.

From the title of the thread "why do some words carry an offensive meaning?" Express your self as you see fit. Your expression will be noted by those around you. There's a reason commerce doesn't speak that way. There is a reason political speeches are not made in that manner. My extended family doesn't need to speak that way to be "one of the boys". You may be a friend, a close friend, but I'd not introduce you to my family. That language will limit what you can get out of life for the "average Joe". Fell free.

 

[Fluffy]

That language will limit what you can get out of life for the "average Joe". Fell free.

I totally agree with you pah, I just view this as a sad reflection on society more than anything else.

 

[Original Freak]

From the title of the thread "why do some words carry an offensive meaning?" Express your self as you see fit. Your expression will be noted by those around you. There's a reason commerce doesn't speak that way. There is a reason political speeches are not made in that manner. My extended family doesn't need to speak that way to be "one of the boys". You may be a friend, a close friend, but I'd not introduce you to my family. That language will limit what you can get out of life for the "average Joe". Fell free.

I did say I tend to stick with what society deems to be the wrong time to use these words. to this day I don't swear around my mother. I don't swear at work, and I don't go throwing around the 'bad' words around other people's families either so if I was a friend, you wouldn't need be worried I would shake your mother's hand and exlain "It's great to f****n meet you."

I'm just with the line of thinking that these words really don't have any worst a meaning than their counterparts BUT they can, for those of use who use them, portray and emotion and feeling blunty and with more vigor than others we use.