Free Will or Determinism

[PennyKay]

This is a question aimed specifically at Christians.

Most Christians I have spoken to (and indeed I was one at one point) believe that God gave us free will.

However, so many times in the press do we hear Christians claiming natural disasters as 'Gods way of punishing us for our sins'. As an example, a few years a go there were flash floods in Cumbria UK, that caused a lot of damage. I believe it was the Bishop of Carlisle that then went on to say that they were Gods way of punishing our country for condoning laws that favour homosexuality.

If we truly have free-will, surely God shouldn’t punish us for deciding as a society that we now deem homosexuality to be acceptable. That is a decision we have made based on our evolving culture and knowledge of what homosexuality actually is. Why should we be punished for it???

Another example was the Japanese earthquake/tsunami recently. A Christian woman I know brushed the situation off as 'it's just Gods way of telling us there's too many people on the planet'.

How can this God be good? How can this God really be giving us free will? and if you believe in this God, why do you choose to worship him?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is not God that is punishing us.... it is peoples opinions that are misguided.....
People who use natural disasters as examples of Gods wrath, are simply using "Fear" as a means to convert people to their own opinions.

This is a living world ,and the causes of Disasters are the result of natural processes. very often the things that make places fertile or good to live, can bring great risks.
Every one Knows there will be a massive and destructive earthquake in California, however it is a rich and wonderful place to live. People ignore the certainty of disaster because " it won't happen to them" ....... but it will.....

We are not punished for sin in this life. It is not even agreed what constitutes sin. The examples you give are not in themselves harmful, so are not sins.
If people cram themselves into earth quake areas and flood zones, it is their choice and their own risk.
However if the world did not have these risky places, it would be the poorer for it, as they tend to be the most fertile and the most beautiful.

As a Phd student "You are as bright as a new penny" and know these things as well as I. But that does not mean there in no place For God.

 

[PennyKay]

It is not God that is punishing us.... it is peoples opinions that are misguided.....
People who use natural disasters as examples of Gods wrath, are simply using "Fear" as a means to convert people to their own opinions.

This is a living world ,and the causes of Disasters are the result of natural processes. very often the things that make places fertile or good to live, can bring great risks.
Every one Knows there will be a massive and destructive earthquake in California, however it is a rich and wonderful place to live. People ignore the certainty of disaster because " it won't happen to them" ....... but it will.....

We are not punished for sin in this life. It is not even agreed what constitutes sin. The examples you give are not in themselves harmful, so are not sins.
If people cram themselves into earth quake areas and flood zones, it is their choice and their own risk.
However if the world did not have these risky places, it would be the poorer for it, as they tend to be the most fertile and the most beautiful.

As a Phd student "You are as bright as a new penny" and know these things as well as I. But that does not mean there in no place For God.

I completely agree, and I do believe there is a place for God. I just question the ethics of a christian authority figure using issues such as homosexuality as a cause for punishment by God. I guess I just wonder if many Christians do also believe this stance? And if so, why do they worship this God? And again, if they agree with this authority figure, how can they claim that God gave us free will?

 

[religion99]

This is a question aimed specifically at Christians.

Most Christians I have spoken to (and indeed I was one at one point) believe that God gave us free will.

However, so many times in the press do we hear Christians claiming natural disasters as 'Gods way of punishing us for our sins'. As an example, a few years a go there were flash floods in Cumbria UK, that caused a lot of damage. I believe it was the Bishop of Carlisle that then went on to say that they were Gods way of punishing our country for condoning laws that favour homosexuality.

If we truly have free-will, surely God shouldn’t punish us for deciding as a society that we now deem homosexuality to be acceptable. That is a decision we have made based on our evolving culture and knowledge of what homosexuality actually is. Why should we be punished for it???

Another example was the Japanese earthquake/tsunami recently. A Christian woman I know brushed the situation off as 'it's just Gods way of telling us there's too many people on the planet'.

How can this God be good? How can this God really be giving us free will? and if you believe in this God, why do you choose to worship him?

As an Atheist , what is your belief and logic about freewill and determinism?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

As an Atheist , what is your belief and logic about freewill and determinism?

Disclaimer: atheism is about gods and gods alone. One cannot give their views on free will and determinism as an atheist.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I completely agree, and I do believe there is a place for God. I just question the ethics of a christian authority figure using issues such as homosexuality as a cause for punishment by God. I guess I just wonder if many Christians do also believe this stance? and if so, why do they workship this God?

There are very very few Bishops and priests in the Anglican church that take this sort of stand. It is rare for such people to get appointed, as such views are completely counter to the Christian message.
These statements usually come to light, when they a thwarted in getting their minority views accepted by the wider congregation.
There has been a massive movement towards Women Priest and Bishops and the acceptance of gay clergy. Those against, are very traumatised to find them selves so isolated, and their opinions so despised. Some of them seem to have retired to the deepest puritanical belief system.

Such people do exist in all walks of life and in all religions. It does no religion a service to believe these retrograde ideas.

 

[Manss]

I am not Christian but read your comment and decided write an explanation

yes god has given us free will but it is not absolutely and our will is after god's will (his permission ). Often we can decide and preform a work but some time we decide but don't succeed to do it because of interfering an uncalled-for event. for example , we decide journey to another town tomorrow but tomorrow morning we get the head cold and can't go to that town. That event (head cold ) which prevented our determination was from god. So when we want pay to a work we must say : " If god will "

.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Having a creator God that can surpass logic and causality gives a large opening for free will to exist. It seems like the Christian God decided that for worship of him to mean something, it would have to be voluntary. Not all Christians believe in free will, however. Some deem the sins of man to be part of God's master plan.

When it comes to punishing people with natural disasters, this is not unheard of in the Bible. Some modern Christians attribute natural disasters to Satan, but this is unbiblical.

To make sense of it, we need to remember that the Bible lays down the "laws of God". In a regular society, we still have the ability to murder and steal, but we do get punished for it. It works the same way with the Christian God. This way, Christians consider God just.

Now, if there's free will or a great master plan, that depends on how you interpret the Bible.

 

[PolyHedral]

Time is far from linear, as far as science is concerned. However, there isn't anything like free will.

 

[Skwim]

I completely agree, and I do believe there is a place for God. I just question the ethics of a christian authority figure using issues such as homosexuality as a cause for punishment by God. I guess I just wonder if many Christians do also believe this stance? And if so, why do they worship this God? And again, if they agree with this authority figure, how can they claim that God gave us free will?

The notion of freewill is necessary for sin and salvation to have meaning. And putting the truth of salvation on the chopping block of determinism is simply unthinkable, so freewill must---has to be---true . . . . . no matter what.