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Faith without works

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Bishka, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

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    This has probably been discussed before, but not in my time, so I'm bringing it up.

    Faith, works, what do you think.

    "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17 KJV)

    "Ye see the how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."(James 2:24 KJV)

    "For as the body without the spirit is dad, so faith writhout works is dead also."(James 2:26 KJV).

    I'm wondering also, why these scriptures are so often ignored by some faiths, and I've heard, I believe the Lutherans have said that's pure baloney.

    Anybody?
     
  2. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    I wish I had a good answer for you. I don't know about the Lutherans, but in light of these clear verses it would seem that the only way for someone to ignore them is to want to ignore them. It would seem that by denying them, a "believer" could see a way to get away with doing less. In other words, it makes them think they can still be saved without having to do as much to earn it. Doesn't make much sense in my opinion.
     
  3. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    Frankly, I think works without faith makes for a better human being than faith without works.
    Just my opinion.
     
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  4. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    Some believe that 'Works' will save you, when I believe that being saved is by the grace of God. And, of course, there will be a debate on exactly what is works.
     
  5. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Faith without Good Deeds Is Dead
    (From the New Testament) James 2:14-18

    Dear brothers and sisters, what's the use of saying you have faith if you don't prove it by your actions? That kind of faith can't save anyone. Suppose you see a brother or sister who needs food or clothing, and you say, "Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well"--but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

    So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all--it is dead and useless.

    Now someone may argue, "Some people have faith; others have good deeds." I say, "I can't see your faith if you don't have good deeds, but I will show you my faith through my good deeds."



    This is one of the lessons from the Bible that UUs take very seriously.
     
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  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I think 'Works' is pretty much 'fluid' depending on your own particular standpoint.

    Helping a neighbour by doing odd jobs, I would have thought would be works - basically, I would define it as deeds and actions done unselfishly, without expecting anything in return.

    I used to do lots of the above kind of works; we live in a close full of old folk, and I used to be 'Mr fix it'...from gardening, to plumbing, electricity, Tvs and videos (there's not much that I haven't ruined in my time:D). I guess now, my works have to be far less physical, maybe supporting others through problems.....I guess it is all very subjective.
     
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  7. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    Michel, I totally agree with you. To me it's acting with love, showing love towards everyone, not just your friends. In Matthew 7:21-23 it talks about people doing things in Christ's name, and Christ stating he never knew them. What's in your heart is so important.
     
  8. ashai

    ashai Active Member

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    Ushta Ak\ll

    OOH this one of my pet peeves! In the Good Rligion we must have good thoughts, words and deeds ALL three!Belief without all of these does not amount to a hill of beans!James said it for Christians, and i know you guys do not agree with this or with each othern but ... Faith without works, is dead!
    Ushta Ve
    Ashai
     
  9. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Faith in God is evidenced by good works. That doesn't mean that works save us but that a faith that does not produce good works is no real faith at all. That's what James is getting at and it's exactly what the Undivided Church believed. God grants us His grace and we are free to respond with a true faith (which includes good works) or with rejection. We are certainly saved by grace, but only if we work with it, not if we reject it. This is why we refer to the process of salvation as a synergy between God and man.

    Lukewarm faith (which I would argue is a faith without works) is clearly condemned in the Bible. Sola fide was an overreaction (much like sola scriptura) to what Luther saw as the abuses of Roman Catholicism. At the time of the Reformation the RCC certainly did look overly legalistic and I can understand why Luther could think it was works rather than faith based, but I still think he misunderstood. Personally, I'm convinced that sola scriptura and sola fide, whilst both being held to by Luther, are mutually exclusive. This is evidenced by the fact that Luther thought James spurious precisely because it contradicted sola fide.

    James
     
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