Faith is taught

[TeePee]

faith is personal: religion is ethnocentric and 'taught'.

It's taken me about 200 years to join together my simple faith in the spirit to the religions around me.

I don't think any one religion can contain more than a glimmer of G_d- people are involved!

 

[Pah]

The topic was that Faith MUST be taught. I have shown a description of faith being engendered not by teaching but by an experience. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the nature of the OP?

Expeience is a "teacher" And I did not say it must be taught for there is always an original idea. But the original idea is digested and changed and not always by experience or direct "teaching". There can be a rational process whereby an adaptation of the original idea is conceived. God or gods had to be invented. They could not have been discovered. The god of the Old Testament was a refinement of the god of fire and Christianity was an expansion of that. It was the process of learning that gave the vast majority of the faithful their faith. An idea was presented, presuppositions infused with it and directly taught from generation to generation.

There was NO attack... Merely disagreeing with you is not an attack, nor is it despicable. You are the only making any accusations. Should you want me to leave this discussion, just ask.

You personalized it by saying "Not everyone who disagrees with you" You, at the very least, implied that I thought everyone was " 'out of line', 'erroneous' or 'off topic' ". That is a personal attack - that I did not have neutral expectations for some.

I couldn't care less whether you remain or go from this or any other thread where I participate. I have said so time and time again in relation to your declarations that you would like to withdraw from RF iteslf. You persist in thinking I want you "out" and I expect it will not end here.

The point of the passage I cited, was that faith often comes from direct observations or an experience. In that respect, it is not learned. You asked for ONE example, and I provided it. Quite often we only "learn" to believe when we come in direct contact with the phenomenon in the school of hard knocks. This happens even today when people are exposed to true believers. They see the promises revealed and so believe NOT because they are taught, but because they see the truth in all of it's glory. Of course, not everyone is open to the experience. That's "OK".

"Contact with other belivers"? Experience? Having been taught in those processes you accept them as positive evidence. They are not original from within you.

It has even been shown that personal revelation in answered prayer is nothing but a confirmation of a pre-conception.

Your faith is so complete in the brake pedal that you don't even see it as such. Yet, as you have pointed out, that faith is not always warranted, not that this will stop you from depressing the pedal whenever you want. I would suggest that faith controls MUCH of how we live our life. Just like those faulty brakes of yours, the outcome of a flawed faith may be quite tragic. Faith, like brakes are best when inspected frequently and adjusted, repaired or completely replaced.

You confuse "confidence" with the faith that is religious faith - the faith that is a leap from rational thought which is based on questionable evidence. I stated that a brake is but a first step in bringing the car into better control of speed. I've even stopped a car when the brakes failed by slamming the sideof my car against the cliff side of a mountain road rather than going over the cliff on the otherside when speed would make that certian on winding roads. I consider the option of avoidance of other cars when the brakes are not adequate. In short, I do not have confidence in the brake. Good drivers have plans for emergency situations.

But this is not a discussion/debate about what faith is

 

[Scuba Pete]

God or gods had to be invented. They could not have been discovered.

This is proven where? I guess you believe that the American continent was invented and not discovered?

When Jesus turned water into wine, those present were ASTONISHED. If this were part of a presumption, then why were they astonished?

Faith does not fit into a neat little box. It's genesis is even more complex. Genuine faith transcends our ability to fully comprehend it. Most faith is evidenced and it's genesis is from experience and not from being brainwashed.

BTW, it seems that Webster has faith confused with confidence as well. From www.Dictionary.com (the very first entry too!):

faith  /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth]http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/
–noun 1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

While this may not be a discussion about what faith IS or ISN'T, it appears to be a discussion about it's very basis. Please correct me if I am wrong. Faith is often treated as a flaw by some who don't understand it. This approach leads to wildly fallacious presumptions about it's origin and it's role in our lives, even to denying an apparent reliance on it to operate your car.

 

[Ozzie]

This is proven where? I guess you believe that the American continent was invented and not discovered?

When Jesus turned water into wine, those present were ASTONISHED. If this were part of a presumption, then why were they astonished?

Faith does not fit into a neat little box. It's genesis is even more complex. Genuine faith transcends our ability to fully comprehend it. Most faith is evidenced and it's genesis is from experience and not from being brainwashed.

BTW, it seems that Webster has faith confused with confidence as well. From www.Dictionary.com (the very first entry too!):

faith  /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth]
–noun 1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

While this may not be a discussion about what faith IS or ISN'T, it appears to be a discussion about it's very basis. Please correct me if I am wrong. Faith is often treated as a flaw by some who don't understand it. This approach leads to wildly fallacious presumptions about it's origin and it's role in our lives, even to denying an apparent reliance on it to operate your car.

People getting together to disprove the existence of God, is like fish getting together to debate "is there an ocean". To me, the faulty logic evident in this sentence is synonymous with comparing discovery of God, with discovery of America.

 

[Pah]

This is proven where? I guess you believe that the American continent was invented and not discovered?

Where in the bible was God "discovered" Genesis 1? Genesis 2? Who was the author that put pen to parchment or stylus to clay? Christian faith was learned and modified from Jewish faith and THAT is an invention. Christianity took out a patent on it.

When Jesus turned water ....

Off topic. Please stay on topic. A story 3rd hand and written by biased authors is no proof that anyone was astonished. Take that to another thread if you wish to continue

Faith does not fit into a neat little box. It's genesis is even more complex. Genuine faith transcends our ability to fully comprehend it. Most faith is evidenced and it's genesis is from experience and not from being brainwashed.

Who said anything about being "brainwashed" Not I certainly. But it seems you'd like to inject that thought into an argument where it has not arisen. It seems to be a play for emotion to support a losing argument.

But the kicker is "[faith's] genesis is from experience". That's what I've been saying all along in this thread. and the expeirence is "being taught".

BTW, it seems that Webster has faith confused with confidence as well. From www.Dictionary.com (the very first entry too!):

faith  /feɪθ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[feyth]http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/
–noun 1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.

You do faith that is religious a disservice by lowering it to a mundane level. It's a weak search for error you think I made.

While this may not be a discussion about what faith IS or ISN'T, it appears to be a discussion about it's very basis. Please correct me if I am wrong. Faith is often treated as a flaw by some who don't understand it. This approach leads to wildly fallacious presumptions about it's origin and it's role in our lives, even to denying an apparent reliance on it to operate your car.[/QUOTE]I've already told twice before that I have limited confidence in the brakes working. What keeps you from undersatnding that? I certainly do not have the religious faith that relies on the supernatural.

Personally, and you should know this, I've told you many times, I don't think faith is "flawed" I believe it is essential to provide self identity for some. I have no illusions about where my faith came from when I was born again and when I was brought up in a devout Christian family. No great insight appeared as I was baptised

You have yet to provide an alternative to teaching and the occasional "revelation". Nor have you shown teaching to be false. In fact, you even argued that the experience is correct.