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My words ? O.K; I don't mind making a fool of myself.Deut 13:1 said:What is it? ect... I want something in YOUR words, not what some article says. Thanks.
If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?joeboonda said:Okay, here goes:
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, like:
H20 the gas, H20 the liquid, H20 the solid.
All still God, All still H20.
The 'three-in-one'.
God!
A mystery of my faith....Deut 13:1 said:What is it? ect... .
If God is God, then God is omnipotent and transcendent. In other words, other than we human beings. But God is also immanent, or close to us -- one of us. Don't you think that God is able to exist as all three Persons at the same time, if God is omnipotent? Just because we are unable to conceive or understand the mystery of the Trinity, doesn't make it impossible for God to achieve.Katzpur said:If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?
Quite right. The three states of water idea describes Modalism perfectly, but that is not the doctrine of the Trinity. As Scott said, the Trinity is a Mystery and cannot be fully grasped by man (sometimes he really does sound Orthodox!) but basically, the doctrine is this. God is One in His Divine Essence, His substance if you like, but He is made up of three Hypostases. Hypostasis is usually translated into English as Person, but that's a fairly poor translation, it's more like personal essence, that which makes an individual a unique person. There really isn't a good analogy that can be used because this is utterly other than all beings that we have experience of in real life. The best way I can describe it is this: a human has one essence (that which makes him human) and one hypostasis (that which makes him uniquely him). God has one Essence (that which makes Him Divine) but three Hypostases. He is, then, One God (one individual) in three Hypostases and is always, simultaneously, One according to His essence but Three in His Hypostases. I'm sure that my description fails at many levels, but we were asked to explain in our own words so I can't call on the words of the Fathers. It is impossible to really grasp the Trinity with our rational mind (hence us calling it a Mystery) so I'd be unsurprised if people don't follow my attempt to explain. You can pretty much guarantee that if someone tells you the Trinity is 'simple' they don't have a clear idea of what it means themselves.Katzpur said:If you have a quart of water and you freeze it, you have ice. If you have a quart of water and you boil it, you have steam. How do you have the same H2O simultaneously in all three forms? You don't. You can't. When the triune God exist as the Father, what happens to the Son? When He exists as the Son, what happens to the Holy Ghost?
its not a bible teaching simple as that,Deut 13:1 said:What is it? ect... I want something in YOUR words, not what some article says. Thanks.
Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.may said:its not a bible teaching simple as that,
Many persons think the trinity is a Christian teaching based on Gods Word, the Bible. but it is not , the trinity is a false teaching
Jesus Christ and his apostles did not teach the Trinity
the Trinity was unknown to early churchmen. Actually it was some 400 years or more after the death of Christ that the concept of three persons in one God was finally formulated by men and introduced into the church........... now that is what i would call unfaithfulness:tsk:
If you look at may's religious orientation, you might better understand why she is saying what she is; we all have a right to our own beliefs.sojourner said:Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.
The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
Not to mention that the Trinity is found in pre-Nicene Patristic works. May is, indeed, entitled to her beliefs as Michel said (though why she has to post in this thread is beyond me, how is she going to explain a doctrine she doesn't agree with? It's simply an excuse for some Trinitarian bashing) but you are quite right to correct her erroneous view of history. It's not as if she couldn't get the dates right and still hold her beliefs is it?sojourner said:Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.
The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
notice i did say (finally formulated ),seems false teachings crept around a bitsojourner said:Someone's been giving you misinformation. Read John's gospel sometime.
The Nicene Creed, which is much newer than the Apostle's Creed, both of which outline the doctrine of the Trinity, came about in 325 c.e., less than 300 years following the crucifixion.
rocketman said:You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.
Praise the Lord.
regarding Exodus 3;14rocketman said:You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.
Praise the Lord.
rocketman said:You've probably heard the expression Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 "..in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Note with your full attention that the verse expressly says "in the name," not "in the names." When Moses asked God what his name was he said "I AM" [Ex3:14]. When the Jews questioned Jesus claim that he knew Abraham he said "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!". [John8:58] There is no question of God's oneness, and no question that he has made himself known to us in at least three ways. The trinity is mysterious because God is infinite. Draw near to him and he will draw near to you - you will know him personally and his love will be felt as one love, not three loves. The trinity is our finite beings' attempt to describe what we know [so far] of an infinite being.
Praise the Lord.
Hello May!may said:
Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been................ yes he(Jesus) most certainly was in existence before Abraham , in fact Jesus was in the heavenly realm with his father Jehovah even before man was created, Jesus had a pre-human existence in the heavens before he came to the earth so Jesus here was just being truthful , he was in existence before Abraham .