Expensive Churches

[BUDDY]

Perhaps I gave the impression that physical was to be the focus. That is not what I meant. My point is that God's people tend to have the tendency (like in the OT) to elevate the physical to a supernatural state. It's an outward sign of what they are wanting. That being God and a relationship with God which is rich in beauty.

~Victor

Man's wants and desires are not the basis for Biblical law, but what God wants from us should be. To say that I can do X because I feel like it would make me worship God better, is not justification. Following Gods commandments is the only way to be justified.

 

[Quiddity]

Man's wants and desires are not the basis for Biblical law, but what God wants from us should be. To say that I can do X because I feel like it would make me worship God better, is not justification. Following Gods commandments is the only way to be justified.

I never said that desires were the basis for biblical law. My point is that having such desires aren't sinful if your intention is to get closer to God. How can they be? And how are they violating God's law?

~Victor

 

[BUDDY]

I never said that desires were the basis for biblical law. My point is that having such desires aren't sinful if your intention is to get closer to God. How can they be? And how are they violating God's law?

That desire is not what God intended through, I don't think. The desire should eb to love God and keep his commandments. One of which is to help widows and orphans in there infermity. To do good unto all men. When we start displacing Gods desires and focusing on our own, then there is a problem. You can't tell me that you seriously believe that God would have a group of people spend 10 million dollars on a building to worship him, rather than take that same amount of money and feed a small country. If that were the God of the bible (which I don't believe it is), I would renounce him right now.

 

[Quiddity]

That desire is not what God intended through, I don't think. The desire should eb to love God and keep his commandments. One of which is to help widows and orphans in there infermity. To do good unto all men. When we start displacing Gods desires and focusing on our own, then there is a problem.

The whole point is that OUR desires align themselves with God's will. I don't think we are disagreeing here.

You can't tell me that you seriously believe that God would have a group of people spend 10 million dollars on a building to worship him, rather than take that same amount of money and feed a small country. If that were the God of the bible (which I don't believe it is), I would renounce him right now.

Why, you don't think God can do both?

~Victor

 

[Caprice]

The wasteful use of church funds is a significant reason behind why I refuse to tithe even when I have the money for it. Churches do not have to have their own building, nor do they need to have paid people working for them or large hierarchical authority structures. Those who do God's work should do it for God, not for money, and all authority in the Church is should be derived from God, not from a pope, a bishop, etc.

 

[BUDDY]

Why, you don't think God can do both?

Do I think that God can command one thing, but then be okay when we do something for ourselves instead? No, I don't.

 

[Majikthise]

Theres a baptist church in the poorer, run down area of Kokomo that makes me think "What happened to being humble?" This church has a large window in the front, 3 or 4 large crystal chandelers, 2 very large, extravagent semi-spiral cases, all in the northern ghetto of Kokomo. It actually iratates me, knowing that people who probably dont come close to seeing poverty level have to look at a very expensive church. I thought it was kinda funny when we had really bad storms 4th of July weekend a couple years ago and the church flooded. Thier Karma bit them hard.

When I lived in Kokomo my ex used to drag me to church all the time. I think that might be the one!! Small world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When I lived in Kokomo my ex used to drag me to church all the time. I think that might be the one!! Small world.

They just added all that stuff a few years ago. The reason that church can afford fancy stuff is because they tell you how much to give for offerings, based on income. This church is on Goyer road.

 

[Quiddity]

Do I think that God can command one thing, but then be okay when we do something for ourselves instead? No, I don't.

What command are you talking about? Did I not specify above that the Church is for ALL and in most cases it was the same poor people helping build the church. If your objection is that a Church is building churches INSTEAD of feeding the poor then I agree. But it would baffle me for you to conclude that the Catholic Church does not help the poor and needy. Do you think this is the case?

~Victor

 

[DeepShadow]

I still say there's a difference between a 'big church' and a 'waste of money on nothing.' I've seen plenty of churches that were in the latter category, including one with so many extracurricular activities that members usually referred to it as "Six Flags Over Jesus." I mean, a basketball court/gym is one thing--you can fill it with tables and host meetings there, too--but that plus bowling alley plus swimming pool plus a tennis court....what's up with that?

Another consideration is how people at these churches treat the poor who want to worship with them. I've seen some pretty rude treatment of people based on how they were dressed, and that's inexcusable. Yes, I'm including my own church in this, because I've seen it everywhere. My best friend served part of his mission in a rich part of California where some church members managed to take control of the building contract when their church was built (normally LDS churches are contracted from the church headquarters, and they follow a regimented and very fuctional building plan). After filling the place with expensive wood paneling and sculptures and chrome finishes that cost ten times what they needed to, the members began boasting that their meetinghouse was going to be turned into a temple some day! What sickening nonsense!

On the flip side, I think some of the criticisms here are ignoring what's actually going on inside those churches. During the week, most churches I know double as meetingplaces for all kinds of charity work. You think reducing the size of the building would have yielded enough food to compensate for the loss of the Foodsource Ministries that operated out of those rooms? Or how about the free literacy program, or the free English lessons for people from other countries? Don't you think either of those weigh in against simply giving people food? You know what they say, give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day....

Please consider this. I agree with you on many points, and I've found myself a little shocked to be defending this side of things, but I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Original Freak]

During the week, most churches I know double as meetingplaces for all kinds of charity work. You think reducing the size of the building would have yielded enough food to compensate for the loss of the Foodsource Ministries that operated out of those rooms? Or how about the free literacy program, or the free English lessons for people from other countries? Don't you think either of those weigh in against simply giving people food? You know what they say, give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day....

Why does this have to be done at a church, why couldn't other buildings hold these sort of events.

While in Europe I was on a tour of one of the old and Massive stone churches. The celing heights on these things were insane and the tour guide stated the reason for this. I believe it has a lot do to with way churches are built today as well. The size was not done for extravogence but to make the people who entered the church feel small and rather insignificant compared to god.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In the UK the Protestants inherited most of the massive old churches from the Catholics. Now they have real trouble paying for their upkeep.
Of course the Victorians weren't to be outdone...More massive churches.
Only five mile from here a beautiful stone Victorian church has recently been made redundant and is up for sale. ( quite a few in the large towns are now mosques)

Terry
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Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.

 

[shandee64]

Hi Australia here - my response is - are we nuilding our kingdoms or Gods ?

 

[shandee64]

oops buildings !

 

[michel]

My Church didn't cost anything; it's anywhere in nature - preferably an area without Man's mark on it.

 

[shandee64]

here here I agree - I attended a church who's vision was to build the entire street out for Gods work - but int he interim people who needed urgent help were not cared for. I think we have gotten things way out of whack ! :162:

 

[dan]

I have wondered this my whole life. I believe Churches are just a marketing scheme. There is a Mormon church up the freeway from my work that is "huge". On the top it has a statue made of pure gold. This church cost millions, and could have been used to feed a small country, what a waste!!!!!!!!!

What did God command Solomon to do in the Old Testament? That "Mormon church," by the way is a Temple, and the statue is not made of gold. If you asked what the Temple was for you might understand a little better why it cost so much money. And, also, the "Mormon church" feeds several small countries. What have you done with your life that is so much better than that waste?