Evidence ISIS does not know Islam.

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on all. They are all the most worst things on the name of Islam yet they did not know the religion.
1= QUOTE
A French journalist's ISIS captors cared little about religion, Didier Francois -- who spent over 10 months as the group's prisoner in Syria -- told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an exclusive interview on Tuesday.

"There was never really discussion about texts or -- it was not a religious discussion. It was a political discussion."
Source: ISIS captors cared little about religion, says former hostage - CNN.com


2= A German remained with terrorists:
QUOTE
He said he reminded the fighters that most chapters of the Koran began with the words "Allah... most merciful".

"I asked: Where is the mercy? I never got the real answer."
Source: BBC News - Rare Islamic State visit reveals 'brutal and strong' force

 

[Shadow Wolf]

While I agree, that ISIS has perverted and corrupted Islamic teachings, at the same time I, in a masochistic way, look forward to seeing how those who have obviously never read the Quran overlook the statements of "obviously never read" and instead resort to copy-pasted clips from the internet that take the Quran completely out of context and present it as evidence that Islam is inherently violent, and then the rebuttals of "but that is only a small minority of Muslims," which is countered by other things that really do not apply, are not relevant, and completely ignore that fact that most Muslims are not extremist who carry out violent attacks, which is "countered" by mentioning that all religions have violent followers, which is countered by the observation that not even most religious adherents are violent, which is countered by whatever.
I grow tired of such threads. Muslims throughout the Western world have not conducted terrorist attacks, and the majority would never even think of doing such a thing. But yet, for some bizarre reason that cannot be explained logically or rationally, people insist Islam in inherently violent and turns people into violent radicals even though the violent radicals are a small percentage of the Ummah as a whole. I tried to stay out of these threads, but they have become so common they are like a black hole.
If you believe Islam inherently turns people violent, you are stupid, blind, intolerant, and have a very strong will of ignorance. The vast majority of the Ummah are not violent, they will not cause any real problems for us non-Muslims, there is no reason to concern yourself over what the local mosque or community center is up to, and you are probably crying wolf over an imagined shadow.

With that said, I discovered a very interesting book tonight that puts forth the claim (this book is published by Cambridge, and the author is Iranian) that German philosophers such as Nietzsche and Heigegger were tremendously influential in the rise of radical Islam in Iran during the 70's. Though they are hardly blond beasts of prey, it is interesting to note that students of philosophy, with this insight in mind, should find an enemy that is very well understood, known, and predictable with it's perversion of it's own religious text and anti-enlightenment philosophers of the West (French intellectuals are also cited in this book).

 

[jeager106]

I have always thought ISIS did not act in accord with the Quran, only claim to be acting in the name of Allah. However, they are fully muslim and how well they are educated in their holy book makes little difference.
They still claim crimes are committed in the name of allah, ergo are fully engaged in a religious war. It makes no diference if the ISIS leaders garduated from Qu'ran University or can barely read the book.
Even if the leaders were illiterate goat herders they are still muslims, influenced by muslim culture.
Fact is tho they are highly educated men and use thier educations to make war.

What we think here means nothing as the crimes against humanity continues.

 

[sun rise]

I have always thought ISIS did not act in accord with the Quran, only claim to be acting in the name of Allah. However, they are fully muslim and how well they are educated in their holy book makes little difference.
They still claim crimes are committed in the name of allah, ergo are fully engaged in a religious war. It makes no diference if the ISIS leaders garduated from Qu'ran University or can barely read the book.
Even if the leaders were illiterate goat herders they are still muslims, influenced by muslim culture.
Fact is tho they are highly educated men and use thier educations to make war.

What we think here means nothing as the crimes against humanity continues.

That claim that they are fully Muslim is not in accord with Hadith. They are apostates according to this:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

 

[Flankerl]

The only problem is that OP is an Ahmadiyya and therefore in the eyes of most Sunnis(I didn't say on this Forum so don't even go there) and IS even worse than the average unbeliever.

I mean Ahmadiyya get even slaughtered by Sunnis who don't support IS...

 

[gsa]

The only problem is that OP is an Ahmadiyya and therefore in the eyes of most Sunnis(I didn't say on this Forum so don't even go there) and IS even worse than the average unbeliever.

I mean Ahmadiyya get even slaughtered by Sunnis who don't support IS...

I didn't realize that, but they're not even allowed on the hajj right? That's saying something.

 

[jeager106]

There seems to be a problem within islam perpetuating the killing of one another for 1400 years.
Muslims still do.
Adding to the difficulties are the facts that different tribes within the same islamic sect have been killing each other since pre-islam.
On other religious study/debate forums with islamic participants I've read that muslims don't trust muslims. Sectarian and tribal differences result in killing sprees.
In modern times weapons are much more sophiticated, requite little training to use and are much more efficient than the swords of the 7th century.
I have never heard of a drive by swording or suicide sworder, or a camel swording or......................, ah well you see my point.

 

[DawudTalut]

The only problem is that OP is an Ahmadiyya and therefore in the eyes of most Sunnis(I didn't say on this Forum so don't even go there) and IS even worse than the average unbeliever.....I mean Ahmadiyya get even slaughtered by Sunnis who don't support IS...

Peace be on you.
1-Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) clearly foretold the weakness would come in Muslims in latter days.

2-He explained verse 4: chapter 62 of Holy Quran by saying when faith would ascend to Pleiades, one of his servant would restore it. In other saying, he identified hims as Messiah and Mahdi.

3-Many earthly and heavenly signs were mentioned in Quran and Hadith, they all fullfilled and in 1889, the promised servant of Holy Prophet (pbuh) appeared in India. He explained forgotten teaching of Islam and told people not to use sword for faith because now opponents do not stop Islam with force. They use pens [media], you use same. He said to make connection with God by paying rights of God and people and have mercy on all humanity as Prophet of Islam was mercy for all mankind.

4-After him Khilafat continues his services. Now fifth Khalifah (a.t.) is leading the worldwide community with peace, love, learning and prayers.

In RF a whole DIR [Ahmadiyya DIR in Islam Dir] is present with all arguments.

" The Ahmadiyya Movement has been the fastest growing sect according the World Christian Encyclopedia for a number of decades. For this, see earlier editions. The 2001 edition places the growth rate at 3.25%, which is the highest of all Islamic sects and schools of thought. See:

1. • David B. Barrett, George Thomas Kurian,Todd M. Johnson, ed. (February 15, 2001). World Christian Encyclopedia. Oxford University Press USA. ISBN 0195079639."
   • 
     
   • SOURCE: Ahmadiyya by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When people from other Islamic sects discuss, pray and observe matter, they join.
There are many who, when prayed to God for decision, they were clearly told it is truth. Such people are everywhere in the world.

This humble's maternal grandfather became Ahmadiyya Muslim through prayers-revealed truth. 80-Fatwas (verdict) of Kufr (disbelief) were passed against him by area clergies but he remained rock solid by the grace of Allah the Exalted.

Link @
Ahmadiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
enDOTwikipediaDOTorg/wiki/Ahmadiyya

[A Friendly Note: Those who missed first Messiah, have another chance now. One may pray their own way and seek direct guidance from God.]

 

[Smart_Guy]

Guys, you're getting off-topic here. I only ask of you never believe every thing you read or hear about Islam and Muslims. Even if you believe it, please don't generalize it.

But anyways, back to topic.

I think I S I S made it even clearer than it already is by burning a human alive. It is known to all Muslims that torture in Islam is forbidden, let alone with fire ending with murder. Muhammad himself strictly said that point about fire.

 

[Augustus]

I have never heard of a drive by swording... or a camel swording or......................,

 

[Augustus]

I think I S I S made it even clearer than it already is by burning a human alive. It is known to all Muslims that torture in Islam is forbidden, let alone with fire ending with murder. Muhammad himself strictly said that point about fire.

While many individual ISIS members might be highly ignorant of Islam, the group as a whole is very knowledgable about Islamic texts and Islamic history.

Their ideology cannot be confronted successfully without acknowledging this.

They justify every action they carry out with reference to specific examples from Islamic history or scripture. Jihadi texts are full of references to these. They are not attempting to carry out a reasoned and dispassionate analysis of the totality of Islamic theology, they are simply justifying what they do to their supporters and sympathisers.

The burning was justified with regard the actions of Abu-Bakr:

Dirar b. al-Azwar said: "I saw no one other than the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) who was more filled with the ruthlessness of war than Abu Bakr. We once informed him of evil news about the apostasy and its magnitude and it was as if what we had told him did not bother him at all. His orders for the army dealt only with the matter of severing the neck without clemency or slowness. And he (may God be pleased him) even burned a man named Iyas b. `Abd Allah b. `Abd Yalil, nicknamed al-Faja’a, when he cheated him by taking the money for the jihad against the apostates and then joined them, or more accurately became a brigand. The war spread across the whole peninsula and none of the Companions of the Messenger of God were concerned about it; rather, they were men of war and its people until the peninsula returned to the rule of Islam and its authority".

I don't believe that their views are representative of the vast majority of Muslims, but I don't think it is helpful to believe their views are totally without any foundation either.

Islam was founded in a violent time and early Muslims in general were no better or worse than their contemporaries. They were simply people of their era.

If it is to be a timeless religion, Muslims have to separate the historically contextual aspects of Islamic texts from the timeless values that are relevant today.

This require dealing with these in their totality, good parts and bad.

I wish nothing but the best to all Muslims who prefer to focus on the positive aspects of Islam and its history

 

[Smart_Guy]

While many individual ISIS members might be highly ignorant of Islam, the group as a whole is very knowledgable about Islamic texts and Islamic history.

Their ideology cannot be confronted successfully without acknowledging this.

They justify every action they carry out with reference to specific examples from Islamic history or scripture. Jihadi texts are full of references to these. They are not attempting to carry out a reasoned and dispassionate analysis of the totality of Islamic theology, they are simply justifying what they do to their supporters and sympathisers.

Islam was founded in a violent time and early Muslims in general were no better or worse than their contemporaries. They were simply people of their era.

If it is to be a timeless religion, Muslims have to separate the historically contextual aspects of Islamic texts from the timeless values that are relevant today.

This require dealing with these in their totality, good parts and bad.

I wish nothing but the best to all Muslims who prefer to focus on the positive aspects of Islam and its history

Yes, there are different narrations from different kinds of people with many of those narrations taken authentic, doubtful and completely wrong. This is why I don't take Islamic heritage in full for granted. If I had to take from those narrations, I always do the kind and lenient of them, because if that does not do good, it will also do no harm. Islam does indeed have a dark side just as most, if not all, other religions. That justification was however ended, in my views, with Muhammad telling to never do it and that no one tortures with fire except the God of fire. It is even what the most known radical Muslim country follows.

I could be wrong of course, but my way will be as it is; taking what is kind of Islam for the good of all people.

 

[jeager106]

I have been studying islam for about a year and a half, especially the history.
Before Muhammud, the Arabs of the middle east were largely nomads, extremely tribal, and very pagan. Others were Jew or Christians.
Muhammud was illiterate, got lucky, married a rich woman who inherited a profitable trade caravan from her decased hubby.
Muhammud claimed vision, couldn't write them down-illiterate you see-so being wealthy scribes were hired to make notes on his revelations.
These revelations took place over a period of 23 years, ergo why there is no continuity of thought in the original Qu'ran.
The Qu'ran references killing infidels over 500 times.
In the beginning of islam the concept met with resistance among pagans, jew, and christians so muhammud hired an army to avoid any further objections to his revelations.
So for 1400 years Arab ilsamic sects and tribal issues have promoted murder in the name of allah.
1400 years of violence. Murder, stealing dead guys women as sex slaves.

1. Ever wonder why any 12 year old kid can go to an arms bizzare and buy an AK 47 for $10 bucks? and no one will bat at eye that the kid is now armed with an assult rifle?
2. there is no such thing or even a concept of gun control in the middle east. Each and every household, no matter how economically poor, is entitled to at least one Ali Babba gun, always an AK 47,. An Ali Babba gun simply means to protect the goats from thieves, probably the family also.
3. suggeseting that firearms, swords, spears, etc. be outlawed would likely get the legislator killed on the spot.
4. the issue of violence in the middle east world or Arabic islam is one of a very long traditon of killing one another due to islamic sectarian difference and tribal differences that go back way before Muhammud.
5. todays issue are simply that Arabs got very, very, rich, especially the Saudis who are Wahabbi Sunni, think they are the elite of all allahs people, bought weapons and armed what evolved into terror groups, even bankrolled ISIS when they were the J.V. team the west ignored.
6. today radical muslims can travel quickly world wide to enforce Sharia Law, reference Paris???? 12 cartoonists murdered for an image of Muhammud, the making of which carries a death penalty. And it did.
7. please don't think I am anti muslim. I am not. It's muslims with modern weapons, that can travel any where in the world, with college educations enabling them to corrupt the young romantics of the west to join up and fight for "the cause" whatever that it. I suspect the "cause" is that which is simply stated in the Qu'ran...World domination by islam, the world ruled by Sharia Law.

Don't believe any of that? Sound incredible? It is incredible and true. Convert or die.
You only need do a little internet research to learn what you need to know about the dangers of radical islam. I'd love for someone to point me to what is NOT radical islam.
It's been written in articles available via "google" that there are 1.6 Billion muslims world wide. 10 to 15 percent are either active, armed radicals, or openly support them. ( 2.4 Billion Xtians-6 million jews in Israel, surrounded by 322 million arabs)
How many individuals is 15 percent of 1.6 BILLION. Really, I don't know.
And please, once again, I don't denounce any group because of a religious practice-am not anti islam-I simply point out truths that explain radical muslim behavior of the middle east Arab tribes. Sorry to use the old excuse " my best buddy is a" ____________
fill in the group, sect, sexual preference, whatever.
Fact is my dentist is a Palestinian refugee, the lady that owns the nearby gas station is a Palestinian refugee. I like both, once they understand me and realize I am not anti-anything they have ebraced my friendship and opened up to broaden my mind and understand where they are hurt by Israel and the U.S. support of Israel.
I would be pretty ticked off if I had to leave my homeland, family heritage, and so forth.
Both my Sharia law muslims are great friends and conversations with them have been enlightening.
They learn I am a retired police officer and show great respect, almost a kind of hero status with my two Arab friends. My life is all the richer for knowing them.
Beside the muslim lady is soooooooo pretty.

 

[DawudTalut]

I have been studying islam for about a year and a half, especially the history.
Before Muhammud, the Arabs of the middle east were largely nomads, extremely tribal, and very pagan. Others were Jew or Christians.
Muhammud was illiterate, got lucky, married a rich woman who inherited a profitable trade caravan from her decased hubby.
Muhammud claimed vision, couldn't write them down-illiterate you see-so being wealthy scribes were hired to make notes on his revelations.
These revelations took place over a period of 23 years, ergo why there is no continuity of thought in the original Qu'ran.
The Qu'ran references killing infidels over 500 times.
In the beginning of islam the concept met with resistance among pagans, jew, and christians so muhammud hired an army to avoid any further objections to his revelations.
So for 1400 years Arab ilsamic sects and tribal issues have promoted murder in the name of allah.
1400 years of violence. Murder, stealing dead guys women as sex slaves.

1. Ever wonder why any 12 year old kid can go to an arms bizzare and buy an AK 47 for $10 bucks? and no one will bat at eye that the kid is now armed with an assult rifle?
2. there is no such thing or even a concept of gun control in the middle east. Each and every household, no matter how economically poor, is entitled to at least one Ali Babba gun, always an AK 47,. An Ali Babba gun simply means to protect the goats from thieves, probably the family also.
3. suggeseting that firearms, swords, spears, etc. be outlawed would likely get the legislator killed on the spot.
4. the issue of violence in the middle east world or Arabic islam is one of a very long traditon of killing one another due to islamic sectarian difference and tribal differences that go back way before Muhammud.
5. todays issue are simply that Arabs got very, very, rich, especially the Saudis who are Wahabbi Sunni, think they are the elite of all allahs people, bought weapons and armed what evolved into terror groups, even bankrolled ISIS when they were the J.V. team the west ignored.
6. today radical muslims can travel quickly world wide to enforce Sharia Law, reference Paris???? 12 cartoonists murdered for an image of Muhammud, the making of which carries a death penalty. And it did.
7. please don't think I am anti muslim. I am not. It's muslims with modern weapons, that can travel any where in the world, with college educations enabling them to corrupt the young romantics of the west to join up and fight for "the cause" whatever that it. I suspect the "cause" is that which is simply stated in the Qu'ran...World domination by islam, the world ruled by Sharia Law.

Don't believe any of that? Sound incredible? It is incredible and true. Convert or die.
You only need do a little internet research to learn what you need to know about the dangers of radical islam. I'd love for someone to point me to what is NOT radical islam.
It's been written in articles available via "google" that there are 1.6 Billion muslims world wide. 10 to 15 percent are either active, armed radicals, or openly support them. ( 2.4 Billion Xtians-6 million jews in Israel, surrounded by 322 million arabs)
How many individuals is 15 percent of 1.6 BILLION. Really, I don't know.
And please, once again, I don't denounce any group because of a religious practice-am not anti islam-I simply point out truths that explain radical muslim behavior of the middle east Arab tribes. Sorry to use the old excuse " my best buddy is a" ____________
fill in the group, sect, sexual preference, whatever.
Fact is my dentist is a Palestinian refugee, the lady that owns the nearby gas station is a Palestinian refugee. I like both, once they understand me and realize I am not anti-anything they have ebraced my friendship and opened up to broaden my mind and understand where they are hurt by Israel and the U.S. support of Israel.
I would be pretty ticked off if I had to leave my homeland, family heritage, and so forth.
Both my Sharia law muslims are great friends and conversations with them have been enlightening.
They learn I am a retired police officer and show great respect, almost a kind of hero status with my two Arab friends. My life is all the richer for knowing them.
Beside the muslim lady is soooooooo pretty.

Peace be on all.
a) = Good to know you are learning Islam and history, but your need to improve sources. There are things you mentioned are not correct. Kindly check books at
The Holy Prophet Muhammad
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/holyprophet/

There are many books about Holy Prophet (pbuh) on the right hand side of page.


b) = I agree with some of your points like feuds of tribes of Arabs. Islamic teaching taught them to end those wars. When they forgot they reached at square 1 again. Reform is needed. But Quran did not teach them violence, you are more than wrong to say it.

[3:104] And hold fast, all together, by the rope of Allah and be not divided; and remember the favour of Allah which He bestowed upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts in love, so that by His grace you became as brothers; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah explain to you His commandments that you may be guided.
[alislamDOTorg/quran]


c) = You said: I'd love for someone to point me to what is NOT radical islam.
You are cordially pointed to a nearby place called:
Ahmadiyya DIR | ReligiousForums.com
wwwDOTreligiousforumsDOTcom/forums/ahmadiyya-dir.327/

Good wishes.

 

[jeager106]

Peace be on all.
a) = Good to know you are learning Islam and history, but your need to improve sources. There are things you mentioned are not correct. Kindly check books at
The Holy Prophet Muhammad
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/holyprophet/

There are many books about Holy Prophet (pbuh) on the right hand side of page.

Thank you so much for your kind responses.


b) = I agree with some of your points like feuds of tribes of Arabs. Islamic teaching taught them to end those wars. When they forgot they reached at square 1 again. Reform is needed. But Quran did not teach them violence, you are more than wrong to say it.

No the Qu'ran certainly did not teach the Arab tribes violence. They had been killing each other without reservation for centuries prior to Muhammud.
However the Qu'ran does uphold killing the unbeliever, the infidel in many verses.

[3:104] And hold fast, all together, by the rope of Allah and be not divided; and remember the favour of Allah which He bestowed upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts in love, so that by His grace you became as brothers; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah explain to you His commandments that you may be guided.
[alislamDOTorg/quran]


c) = You said: I'd love for someone to point me to what is NOT radical islam.
You are cordially pointed to a nearby place called:
Ahmadiyya DIR | ReligiousForums.com
wwwDOTreligiousforumsDOTcom/forums/ahmadiyya-dir.327/

Good wishes.

And very good wishes to you my friend.
You have been most helpful and that is deeply appreciated.
It is disheartening to see the horrors committed in the name of any religon on the television news.
More bloodshed begets more bloodshed. (PBUY) I don't know if I did the PBUY correctly but I mean Peace Be Upon You and it made me feel very good to say that as I am sincere.

 

[DawudTalut]

And very good wishes to you my friend.
You have been most helpful and that is deeply appreciated.
It is disheartening to see the horrors committed in the name of any religon on the television news.
More bloodshed begets more bloodshed. (PBUY) I don't know if I did the PBUY correctly but I mean Peace Be Upon You and it made me feel very good to say that as I am sincere.

Peace be on you...May God bless you for your sincerity.

as-salam-o alaikum
as-salam-o [peace] alaikum [upon you]
[May peace be on you]