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Embracing good,the Supreme example,Trinity,Unity

Discussion in 'Unitarian Universalism DIR' started by God is love, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. God is love

    God is love Active Member

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    I read Unitarians don't have a creed however they believe in the goodness of humanity. They say they embrace everything or anything good.

    That sounds like the thirteenth article of faith of the church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints. "...If there is anything virtuous, lovely or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."

    They also have the eleventh article of faith that says "We claim the priviledge of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same priviledge, let them worship how, where or what they may."

    Also Unitarians don't have a definite concept of God or goodness however they think of Jesus as a Jewish prophet that was divinely inspired and a Supreme example.

    I gather from this that although Unitarians don't have a definite concept of goodness, they think Jesus was a Supreme example of goodness. I guess because He was divinely inspired. I surmised this because the word divine is defined in the dictionary as supremely good. I read that Unitarians believe Jesus shows our divine potential.

    I agree!!!
    "For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."
    John 13:15
    "According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises that by these ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE..."
    2 Peter 1:3-4

    Part 2 "Trinity, Adam's sin and Salvation" to follow
    It pertains to the split from the Congregationalist beliefs based on Calvin

    1.The Trinity
    2. Adam's sin
    3. Salvation, predestined or not
     
  2. God is love

    God is love Active Member

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    I read Unitarians split from the Congregational church over the Congregationalist' beliefs based on Calvinist tradition that:

    1. The Trinity is three gods as one person

    2. People are punished for Adam's sin and not their own.

    3. God predestines who He will save. God's descision has nothing to do with being good or doing good.

    Universalists believe the opposite of Calvinitss and I do too.

    I believe as the Universalists, the opposite of calvinists.

    The Trinity is not 3 gods as one person.
    Matthew 3:16-17 proves this
    "And JESUS when He was baptized WENT UP straightway OUT OF WATER and the heavens were opened unto Him and He saw the SPIRIT OF GOD DESCENDING like a dove and LIGHTING UPON Him and a VOICE FROM HEAVEN saying "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.""
    Jesus was in the water, the Spirit of God was descending upon Him and a voice from heaven was declaring that Jesus was His son.

    1. These beings were seperate in space or in other words in seperate areas at the same moment in time. The Father was speaking from heaven while the son was comming up out of the water and the Spirit of God was descending from heaven.

    2. The Father said this is my son. He didn't say this is myself.
    Logic would say if the Father is saying Jesus is His son then Jesus' Father is the voice speaking. They are Father and son. If the voice in heaven is God then Jesus is the son of God.

    How are they One???

    "I and the Father are one" John 10:30
    Since a Father and son can't be the same person or share the same body, there has to be another kind of oneness.
    A modern day apostle of the Lord, Bruce R McConkie, {now deceased} explained
    "Though each person in the Godhead is seperate and distinct from each of the others, yet they are one God, meaning that they are united as one in the attributes of perfection. For instance each has truth, justice, mercy, charity, etc. Accordingly they all think, act, speak alike. Each of these three, seperate and distinct individuals can be in only one place at a time but each has power and influence that is everywhere present. Their oneness is the same unity that should exist among disciples."
    In Romans 12:4-5
    "For as we have many members in one body { arms, legs,eyes, etc } and all members have not the same office {function} so we being many are one body in Christ..."
    In Corinthians 12:5-29
    "For as the body is one and hath many members and all members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ."
    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body whether we be Jews or Gentiles..."
    "And if the ear shall say because I am not the eye. I am not of the body, is it not of the body?"

    By virtue of reason they are three seperate personages and they are one in unity.

    As regarding Adam's sin

    I also believe as the Unitarians that people are not punished for Adam's sin.

    I believe the 2nd article of faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints.
    "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam's transgressions."

    I also believe that people are not predestined to be saved.

    1 Timothy 2:3-4
    "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior. Who will have ALL men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth."
    "Doctrines and Covenants" 76:41-42 of the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints
    "That He came into the world even Jesus to be crucified for the world and to bear the sins of the world and to sanctify the world and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness. That through Him ALL might be saved."

    Unitarians believe in universal salvation. Everyone is saved, no matter what, because God is all loving and wouldn't punish anyone in hell.

    Mark 16:16
    "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..."
    3 Nephi 11:33 {Another Testement of Jesus Christ}
    "And whoso believeth in me and is baptized the same shall be saved and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God."
    Doctrines and Covenants 138:2-4
    "And reflecting upon the great atoning sacrifice that was made by the son of God for the redemption of the world and the great and wonderful love made manifest by the Father and the son in the comming of the redeemer into the world that through His atonement and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved."
    Mosiah 4:6-8
    "If ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God and His matchless power and His wisdom and His patience and His long suffering towards the children of men and also the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world that thereby salvation might come to him that should put their trust in the Lord and should be deligent in keeping His commandments and continue in the faith. I say that this is the man who receiveth salvation through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for ALL mankind."
    Alma 11:37 {Another Testement of Jesus Christ}
    "I say unto you you again that He cannot save them in their sins... He hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of Heaven therefore ye cannot be saved in your sins."
    2 Nephi 10:24
    "Wherefore my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God...and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved."
    2 Nephi 25:23 {Another Testement of Jesus Christ}
    "Be reconciled to God, for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do."
    Ephesians 2:8
    "For by grace are ye saved throygh faith and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God."

    Doctrines and Covenants 137:10
    And I also beheld that ALL CHILDREN WHO DIE before they arrive at the years of accountability {8 years} ARE SAVED in the Celestial kingdom of Heaven."

    There is Justice and Mercy
    Justice has laws
    Jesus has Mercy

    When laws are disregarded Justice requires compensation. or punishment. Jesus with His mercy choose to be punished to compensate for the sins of humanity. Since Mercy does not rob Justice, Jesus did what the law required be done and that was to be crucified for the sins committed by humanity. He was punished so that we didn't have to be punished or seperated from God. The atonement doesn't give a liscence to sin rather an opportunity to be forgiven if we repent,{ cease to repeat the sin}. He gives us a chance to get it right, to improve. That's a merciful Jesus.

    Doctrines and Covenants 131:6
    It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorence."
    Acts 17:30
    "And the time of this ignorance God winked at but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."
    That way they can avail themselves of this opportunity. We have the opportunity to be forgiven if we repent.

    Part 3 "the importance of Unity" to follow
     
  3. God is love

    God is love Active Member

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    Again, I recognize that unity must be important to Unitarians because it is in the root word of the word Unitarian. As mentioned before, I also think that may have something to do with the Unitarians who wanted this website to bring relgeons with good together. Perhapps it was to bring peace amongst those that are not one heart and one mind.

    "And the eye can not say unto the hand, I have no need of thee...'
    "That there should be no schism in the body but that the members should have the same care one for another."
    "Now ye are the body of Christ and members in particular.'
    1 Corinthians 12:21

    UNITY

    "There is neither Jew nor Greek... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus"
    Galations 3:28
    "That ye be like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."
    Philippians 2:2
    "that ye stand fast in one spirit with one mind, striving together for the faith of the gospel."
    Philippians 1:27
    "FInally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous."
    1 Peter 3:8
    "And He commanded them that there should be no more contention, but that they should look forward... having one faith and one baptism, having their their hearts knit together in UNITY and love, one towards another."
    Mosiah 18:21 {Another Testement of Jesus Christ}
    "Finally brethren... be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace and the God of love and peace shall be with you."
    2 Corinthians 13:11
    "Endeavoring to keep the UNITY of the Spirit in the bond of peace."
    Ephesians 4:3
    "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell togethet in UNITY."
    Psalms 133:1

    Part 4 "Henry David Thoreau and Emerson start Trancendentalist movement" to follow
     
  4. God is love

    God is love Active Member

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    I read that Henry David thoreau and emerson were Universalits. They started the Trancendentalist movement. They believe God dwells in the soul of every human being.

    They believe human beings should find truth within themselves and Gos should be understood through reason.

    They also believed it was necessary to recognize truth and beauty in God's creatures, nature.

    I believe the third member of the Godhead dwells in us as written in 2 Corinthians 6:16
    "For ye are the temple of the living God as God hath said "I will DWELL in them".
    John 4:12
    "If we love one another, God DWELLETH in us and His love is perfected in us."
    Helaman 4:24
    "The Spirit of the Lord doth not dwell in unholy temples."

    The Holy Spirit and Truth

    The Holy Spirit is Truth
    1 John 5:6
    The Holy Spirit beareth witness of Truth
    That is how we know truth.

    I recognize the truth and beauty in God's nature.
    The Taoists also appreciate the beauty of nature.

    Part 5 "The Unity church" to follow
    that will be the concluding piece
     
  5. God is love

    God is love Active Member

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    I don't know if this has anything to do with the Unitarians however i found this church amonst others in either the phone boof or on the internet in my search for truths.

    The Unity church believes as the Unitarian and christian denominations that Jesus is a great example and we should practice what Jesus preached.

    They believe the bible is a text. Each year they read Matthew Chapters 5,6 and 7

    They believe the Holy Spirit is the activity of God, moving through the minds and hearts of people.
    That sounds good

    They believe we are God's hands and feet.
    That's true

    Unity began as a prayer movement.
    Jesus prayed.

    They believe the purpose of prayer is to help us feel God, experience God. They believe a form of prayer is to set aside some time to be in conscious communion with Him.
    That sounds really good to me.

    The Unity church believes the phrase in the Lord's example of prayer, "Lead us not into temptation",affirms God's loving protection.
    I understand from this that we should ask God for protection so that we aren't led into temptation or we can resist being led.

    Their intention to be at church is to feel closer to God and to have something to practice. They say practice is the "Advanced Course".

    They say there are many paths that lead to God and yet Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life" in John 14:16 which is in the book, that they say is their text book, the bible. The same book they read each year.
    Puzzling

    They believe Jesus the Christ is the son of God and divine. He is the great example and we should practice what He lived.

    I'm in complete agreement with that, obviously.

    The Unity church believes the soul existed before this life,they believe in pre existence.
    I've heard that before, Betty Eadie spoke of it in her book "Embraced by the Light" that I mentioned in the post "Life After Death, Medical Records" that I posted in Comparative Religeon.

    The Unity church also believes the soul exists after this life on earth.
    I believe in a pre and post existence too.

    This concludes what I wanted to share with you. Thank you for the invite and welcome into this room Thank you for providing the hospitable atmoshere to share this with you.
     
  6. jamaesi

    jamaesi To Save A Lamb

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    Well. I'm rather confused. Are you trying to show similiarities to your religion (which I am guessing is LDS) or convert us?


    I have just one thing to nitpick. In your last post you mentioned the Unity church and about Jesus- many UUs believe things about Jesus, but not all believe him to be the son of G-d.
     
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  7. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    Actually I think the majority do not but I could be wrong.
     
  8. jazzalta

    jazzalta Member

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    But it is not the ONLY book they read or study. From their website, "We also respect the sacred literature of other religions." They seek to find the truth everywhere, thus universally.
     
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  9. soma

    soma John Kuykendall

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    The microcosm cannot grasp the macrocosm because it is too vast. The image that our unit minds can grasp is another unit being who serves as a model for spiritual life. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Jesus is pointing the way to the macrocosmic mind and is the tangential point between the macrocosm and the microcosm. By using Jesus as a personal model and a focal point, we can attain Christ consciousness. It is the perfect consciousness for the human model because it has attained all of the possibilities in the human state. In it all potential is actualized on this earthly plane so it becomes the prototype of being for the Christ conscious mind. It admits and supports the idea that there are varied upward paths to pure consciousness, and the diversity in different world faiths diminishes as one approaches Christ consciousness. Evolution and all spiritual paths lead to pure consciousness.

    http://thinkunity.com
     
  10. jamaesi

    jamaesi To Save A Lamb

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    From uua.org

    Of course, trying to a get a majourity on UUs is about as easy as herding cats.


    On my desk I have a Bible, a Qur'an, and a copy of the Tao. :) They seem to reside in peace together, I wish all their followers could do the same.
     
  11. Davidium

    Davidium Active Member

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    As UU's we also realize that the Bible is not as monolitihic as some others perceive it to be. First off, it is not one book... it is a whole library. It has been bound into one cover for convenince sake, but it is not a "book" at all, but an anthology. Written by many different authors, over almost 2.000 years, and for wildly different reasons. Even in the New testament, there is considerable time between all the writings, and they are not in the modern bible in chronological order. If that were true, then the letters of Paul (not even books, but letters) would come before the gospels.

    As one example of what I mean by motives, I would refer anyone to "Beyond Belief" by Dr. Elaine Pagals, (an Episcopal Bible Historian from Princeton) where she puts forth a very compelling argument that the last of the 4 Canonical Gospels to be written, the Book of John, was in fact written for a specific purpose... to refute the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas. This is why John is the only one of the four gospels to insist vehemently on the Divinity of Jesus.

    Such critical biblical scholarship is an inherent part of Unitarian Universalism. To not take the bible on faith, but to really seek to understand it, set in its context, and to then learn from it. To me, the lessons and truths I take away from the bible due to such critical study are so much more profound than if I simply believed...

    And the same method is of great value in learning from the scripture of the world's other religious traditions as well. For my part, I have been studying the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tsu, and the writings of the students of Confucius. I take neither on faith, but try to apply the same kind of critical study to them that I do to the bible... placing them in context, accepting what makes sense, rejecting that which does not, and going beyond the surface understanding.

    Yours in faith,

    David
     
  12. Nozem

    Nozem Member

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    I second what David has written. I view the Sermon on the Mount as one of the greatest texts known to humanity, but also view the Tao Te Ching in the same manner. So would find it hard to accept that the Bible contains a unique and absolute truth which could not be accessed elsewhere by another culture. Also to accept superficially what one reads in any text without truly believing what is being said just causes inner friction and disharmony. One type of behaviour that Jesus would not tolerate according to the Gospels were people who could only give an outward display of religious piety without real understanding.
     
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  13. soma

    soma John Kuykendall

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    The microcosm cannot grasp the macrocosm because it is too vast. The image that our unit minds can grasp is another unit being who serves as a model for spiritual life. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Jesus is pointing the way to the macrocosmic mind and is the tangential point between the macrocosm and the microcosm. By using Jesus as a personal model and a focal point, we can attain Christ consciousness. It is the perfect consciousness for the human model because it has attained all of the possibilities in the human state. In it all potential is actualized on this earthly plane so it becomes the prototype of being for the Christ conscious mind. It admits and supports the idea that there are varied upward paths to pure consciousness, and the diversity in different world faiths diminishes as one approaches Christ consciousness. Evolution and all spiritual paths lead to pure consciousness.
    It is nice to see people appreciating the Bible and other great spiritual books and teachers. They are all pointing to the goal.
    http://thinkunity.com
     
  14. Nozem

    Nozem Member

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    I have been thinking over this thread again. I am not sure about other cultures but in western European terms the vast majority of Christians could not read their Scriptures for many centuries. Broadly speaking the 16th century Reformation started the trend for the laity to be able to access the scriptures, and even then there were Reformers who did not want all the literate people ( still much in the minority) to be able to read the Bible. It is hard to imagine any other time besides the 21st century where literate people had so much information at their fingertips to read if they choose to do so. Sometimes it seems difficult to place exactly how significant sacred texts are within a religion with reference to previous times; are beliefs and practises passed down through other means just as important-or is the idea of communal worship also a major factor within religion? New Year's greetings to you all.
     
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