Drug use and the religious.

[Midnight Pete]

What crime are you specifically talking about?

Hmmm. Does the name Pablo Escobar mean anything to you?

 

[gnomon]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

Tell that to Cory Maye. Much of the violence surrounding illicit drugs is due to the black market. If you take away the black market and regulate the use of popular drugs, such as marijuana, ecstasy, and LSD, than you would probably see less crime. Remove the stigma regarding these drugs and you would probably see a willingness of people to seek help for these drugs.

The assumption that taking or using a drug is progressive. First it's pot, then meth, then coke, then heroin.......

Caffeine and nicotine are drugs. If the progressive theory is true than consuming nicotine or caffeine are indicative of hard drug use. Of course, we know they are not but if the theory holds than they must be. Go figure. To date, marijuana has never been determined as a cause of death but alcohol has. Numerous times. I can describe the experiences in rehab of people brought in for alcohol addiction and their chances of survival compared to heroin addicts. Hint: Alcoholics face a far more serious chance of survival than heroin addicts. Heroin's death rate can be attributed as much to dirty needles and bad drugs as opposed to the actual chemical addiction between alcohol and heroin.

Hmmm. Does the name Pablo Escobar mean anything to you?

He was a crime lord. Take away the source of the profits of these crime lords than they will not be or they will redirect their efforts to other black market enterprises such as gambling.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it's adorable how cannabis is demonized, despite being significantly less dangerous, unhealthy, harmful and addictive than alcohol, which is heavily marketed. Hell, fast food has killed far more people than pot ever has.

 

[jmvizanko]

Hmmm. Does the name Pablo Escobar mean anything to you?

Apparently you didn't read my whole reply. How exactly would Escobar have any power if cocaine were legal? Didn't we learn anything from prohibition in the 20's?

There would be a lot less drug dealers, and thus drug crime, if an option other than working at mcdonald's or pursuing more education didn't exist.

 

[Father Heathen]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

Alcohol sale and use involved lot of crime and violence when it was illegal, but once prohibition was lifted and alcohol became regulated, the crime associated with it dwindled. The same would apply to drugs such as cannabis if it were legalized and regulated.

Also, fast food is addictive and causes a lot of death and suffering, too. How can you possibly justify that?

 

[demonIntegral]

Ain't wrote my scriptures yet... but I sure get a kick outta Ecclesiastes - 2:24 A man can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in his work. This too, I see, is from the hand of God...
Once upon a time, I heard a rumor that the science of agriculture - the cornerstone of the development of a tool-using monkey into a Word that can be spread online - was initiated solely so that the priests could have a regular supply of stash. (Then the "War on Drugs" esclalated, and the reference was lost.) Also hear a rumor that "manna" is a word derived from the Hebrew for "mushroom." (What kind of mushroom, one wonders...) Tell you what: if god shows up, and one is "high," one has a framework of altered reality from which to build. If god shows up, and one is sober; one gets shipped off to the loony bin.
I don't advocate drug use for many of the same reasons the official word is "just say no." One who takes drugs uses a tool to escape "reality," and by the numbers, most who use such tools get tooled up.
But make no mistake - if there were no drugs, there would be no religious. Whether one subscribes to Creationism or evolution, there are natural substances that alter the standard perception; and there is a very good reason for this. Spreading seeds, literally or figuratively.
The big problem is the assumption that "religion" is inexorably entwined with "morality," and smoking a bowl ain't exactly a sign of moral purity.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Tell that to Cory Maye. Much of the violence surrounding illicit drugs is due to the black market. If you take away the black market and regulate the use of popular drugs, such as marijuana, ecstasy, and LSD, than you would probably see less crime. Remove the stigma regarding these drugs and you would probably see a willingness of people to seek help for these drugs.



Caffeine and nicotine are drugs. If the progressive theory is true than consuming nicotine or caffeine are indicative of hard drug use. Of course, we know they are not but if the theory holds than they must be. Go figure. To date, marijuana has never been determined as a cause of death but alcohol has. Numerous times. I can describe the experiences in rehab of people brought in for alcohol addiction and their chances of survival compared to heroin addicts. Hint: Alcoholics face a far more serious chance of survival than heroin addicts. Heroin's death rate can be attributed as much to dirty needles and bad drugs as opposed to the actual chemical addiction between alcohol and heroin.



He was a crime lord. Take away the source of the profits of these crime lords than they will not be or they will redirect their efforts to other black market enterprises such as gambling.

Why do you think black markets exist in the first place? Why does criminal activity exist in the first place? No, it doesn't matter what you legalize because there will always be activities outside the law so long as the law exists.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why do you think black markets exist in the first place? Why does criminal activity exist in the first place? No, it doesn't matter what you legalize because there will always be activities outside the law so long as the law exists.

I'm of the opinion that victimless crimes, such as cannabis use or prostitution where all involved are consenting adults and no innocent people are victimized or their rights violated, should be legalized, taxed and regulated. It's called freedom. The silly thing is that there are far more risky and dangerous things than those that are completely legal. It should be left to personal responsibility, not a babysitting government.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

I would say that drinking is more responsible for this type of thing in the US.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I'm of the opinion that victimless crimes, such as cannabis use or prostitution where all involved are consenting adults and no innocent people are victimized or their rights violated, should be legalized, taxed and regulated. It's called freedom. The silly thing is that there are far more risky and dangerous things than those that are completely legal. It should be left to personal responsibility, not a babysitting government.

Look at the state your country is in.

Personal responsibility isn't worth **** if no one ever takes responsibility for anything.

 

[Midnight Pete]

And people die while irresponsibly rock climbing as well. Should we make rock climbing illegal? At what point do we say, if people want to do something that doesn't directly negatively affect somebody else, then for no other reason than freedom's sake, let them do it?

You are constitutionally empowered to drink paint, but does that make drinking paint a good idea?

 

[gnomon]

Look at the state your country is in.

Personal responsibility isn't worth **** if no one ever takes responsibility for anything.

What state is this country in?

Seriously, you're a Canadian. Tell me what state this country is in based upon your knowledge of illicit drug use.

If this nation is mired in such a state of drug abuse how can the United States be one of the leading nations in industry as well as health care, despite the BS claims of liberals on this forum, and still be pushing ahead in education, human longevity, etc. Please tell me.

Because I'm a poor Southern boy in the meth riddled South who loves to hear what people who do not know the actual state of affairs likes to comment on the United States.

 

[thedope]

And what about all the crime and death and suffering that results from people using illegal narcotics? How can you possibly justify that?

It is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out. We must condemn in order to justify our unwillingness to forgive. The poor we have with us always.

 

[Father Heathen]

You are constitutionally empowered to drink paint, but does that make drinking paint a good idea?

It wouldn't be a very healthy idea, but neither is practicing your religion, yet crazily enough I still support your right and freedom to do so.

 

[Father Heathen]

Look at the state your country is in.

What state would that be exactly, and do you think it necessitates trampling rights and liberty?

Personal responsibility isn't worth **** if no one ever takes responsibility for anything.

That judgment should be made on an individual basis.

 

[Riverwolf]

And people die while irresponsibly rock climbing as well. Should we make rock climbing illegal? At what point do we say, if people want to do something that doesn't directly negatively affect somebody else, then for no other reason than freedom's sake, let them do it?

To whatever extent is necessary to keep the law from becoming too over-complicated.

 

[ninerbuff]

And like I just said, I don't find that this is the case, or at least not most of the time with almost everyone I have ever known. There are plenty of responsible drug users that understand, based on the pros and cons, with addiction, physical danger, and enjoyment, what drugs should be stayed away from.

I completely agree with you. I am one that doesn't have the urge to use drugs since I'm naturally hyper anyway. I don't even drink alcohol but maybe once a year.

 

[ninerbuff]

I think it's adorable how cannabis is demonized, despite being significantly less dangerous, unhealthy, harmful and addictive than alcohol, which is heavily marketed. Hell, fast food has killed far more people than pot ever has.

Ding,ding we have a winner.

 

[ninerbuff]

Look at the state your country is in.

Personal responsibility isn't worth **** if no one ever takes responsibility for anything.

Are you referring to crime? If you are, then you should know that many of our inmates are in for victimless crimes and/or drug crimes. Many of the murderous felons are for murdering other drug dealers or competitors (other gang members). Selling illegal drugs in the US is a lucrative business. If it was legalized and taxed, we would save a ton of money. People that use drugs will still use drugs and those that don't still won't.
Our smoking has gone down tremendously because of taxing the crap out of cigarettes, better education for the minors and banning them from indoor public places.

 

[jmvizanko]

You are constitutionally empowered to drink paint, but does that make drinking paint a good idea?

Obviously not. And I'm not high on rock clmbing either, because the thought of being poised thousands of feet above a bloody impact death doesn't sound very bearable. But if drinking paint is much worse than smoking a joint, and smoking a joint is illegal, why don't we have a law saying that drinking paint, or climbing cliffs is illegal? Let's just make everything that could be remotely considered dangerous illegal, regardless of whatever joy it might bring to anybody....