Double-blind Prayer Efficacy Test -- Really?

[PruePhillip]

Yeah, as in, it received good reviews from critics.



So what? Not so long ago I could have been jailed for showing my ankles in public, or expressing my opinion, as a woman. Going back further I would have been burned at the stake for heresy.
Going back even further I would have been banished for demonstrating that the earth rotates around the sun. What's your point here?

Are you advocating for book banning and the death penalty for authors of books you find distasteful?


Well, you were wrong about the one book you did actually cite so .... yeah.

You are conflating opinions with morals.
Some have issues with the world being round (prior to the ancient Greeks of course) and some have issues with you abusing children.
Both could get your punished - but one penalty is for an opinion, the other for moral behavior.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So how old can a boy be before he transits from 'child' to 'gay' ?

What on earth does that have to do with pedophliia?
'Child' to 'gay'? What are you talking about??

 

[SkepticThinker]

Ok, so how old can a 'gay' boy be before he can act out his 'gayness' ?
20?
15?
10?
5?
1?

And what age do we 'help' this boy with his 'gayness' ?

And if this boy is so 'gay' he thinks he's a 'girl' can we castrate him?
And can we remove the breasts off pubescent girls if they feel they like being a 'boy' ?
Do we need to teach these kids super-early in school in see the world through the lens of sex?
Do 'gay' boys have access to 'gay porn' ?

Interesting world we are just entering, isn't it?
Wonder who is going to have the next generation of children?

What does "act out his gayness' mean?

First you conflated gay with pedophile.
Now you're trying to conflate gay with transgendered.

I think you're confused. Or I am. Because I have no idea where you're going with this and you're all over the place.

At what age do you think it's okay to include family structures in school discussions that are like that of my cousins' - she's married to a woman and they have a daughter. Or is that too much "gayness" for the kids, you think? Maybe her family should just be ignored as non-existent because people like yourself don't seem to think we should be talking about this stuff and continually try to conflate it with pedophilia and "gay porn."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Re picking your institutions for sexual purposes.
If you fancy gays or kids or both you don't want to be in the army, or the police, or the Nazi SS or your local Proud Boys.
You join a church, a monastery, a school, an orphanage etc.. Rules are lax, people are gentler, kids or gays galore.

You think pedophiles are looking for gay kids specifically? Huh? Are you still conflating "gay" with "pedophile?"

 

[Sheldon]

So how old can a boy be before he transits from 'child' to 'gay' ?

How old can a boy be before he transits from a child to straight?

Did you transit from child to straight then, what were you before this happened? I never did, I always knew at some level I was straight, can't remember transiting into it at all?

 

[Sheldon]

Ok, so how old can a 'gay' boy be before he can act out his 'gayness' ?
20?
15?
10?
5?
1?

And what age do we 'help' this boy with his 'gayness' ?

And if this boy is so 'gay' he thinks he's a 'girl' can we castrate him?
And can we remove the breasts off pubescent girls if they feel they like being a 'boy' ?
Do we need to teach these kids super-early in school in see the world through the lens of sex?
Do 'gay' boys have access to 'gay porn' ?

Interesting world we are just entering, isn't it?
Wonder who is going to have the next generation of children?

Why do think gay people transit in a way straight people do not? This is a profoundly stupid piece of homophobic bigotry.

I don't think the world is that different, we are just less prejudiced against minorities than in previous epochs, or at least most of are trying to be. Some people cling to the ignorance and prejudice of past eras, often out of misplaced fear, but just as often out of wilful ignorance.

There's a pride festival in town this Friday, I am looking forward to enjoying a few drinks and some food and music in the sun.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are conflating opinions with morals.
Some have issues with the world being round (prior to the ancient Greeks of course) and some have issues with you abusing children.
Both could get your punished - but one penalty is for an opinion, the other for moral behavior.

Those things I mentioned were considered immoral for their time. A woman who showed her ankle to people was a loose woman with loose morals.
Publishing a book about how the earth rotates around the sun was considered immoral at a time because it went against church teachings.
Burning people at the stake for being heretical is also a moral judgment.

Aren't you saying that certain books are immoral and that kids shouldn't be reading them? Is that a matter of opinion, or a matter of morality?

And you didn't answer my question ...
Are you advocating for book banning and the death penalty for authors of books you find distasteful?

Because that's what it sounds like to me. And based on your own personal tastes and views of morality, to boot. And that's based on your never having read any of them in the first place!

 

[Sheldon]

Re picking your institutions for sexual purposes.
If you fancy gays or kids or both you don't want to be in the army, or the police, or the Nazi SS or your local Proud Boys.
You join a church, a monastery, a school, an orphanage etc.. Rules are lax, people are gentler, kids or gays galore.

You are still falsely trying to conflate being gay with sexual predators like rapists and paedophiles. This is just another attempt to demonise gay people, with false bigotry.

We note you don't care enough about the welfare of children to openly condemn the Catholic church's appalling complicity in the endemic child abuse it covered up, why is that?

 

[Sheldon]

You are conflating opinions with morals.

Morals are subjective opinions about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, did you not know this?

Some have issues with the world being round (prior to the ancient Greeks of course) and some have issues with you abusing children.

The shape of earth doesn't harm anyone, paedophilia as has been explained is a deeply pernicious behaviour. I suggest you delete that last remark, as it is firstly untrue, and secondly abusive ad hominem.

Both could get your punished - but one penalty is for an opinion, the other for moral behavior.

No one here has defended paedophiles, only you have refused to condemn the Catholic church's appalling complicity in covering up the endemic child abuse in its church.

 

[sojourner]

I have encountered various quote that the scientific test on prayer showed no change.

My response has always been "I don't think the parameters were set correctly". I can use the analogy that if the blind test for quenching thirst taking a Tylenol, we would say it didn't work but the parameters are wrong. (Exaggeration done to emphasize that parameters are important)

As my signature say, I offer a Christian perspective. I also personally believe that God does answer prayer outside of my faith in as much as His mercy is everlasting and it is His goodness (in answered prayers) that draws people to Him.

So, here goes. What were the parameters that were set? Is just having people pray for someone, enough for a comprehensive study?

Let me share some positions--since the question I would have is "who did they select to pray?".

1) Jesus is quoted as saying from Mattew 6:7 AMPCAnd when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking.

Are there people who call prayer "repeating words over and over"? The answer is yes. Heartfelt I am sure yet Jesus very clearly says they won't be heard by God. If they are included in the prayer test, it would make the test invalid.

2) James said, in James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."

if people are praying but praying thinking that God will hear them and then wondering if God will hear them, scripturally God can't get the answer to the person. If these people are included in the prayer test, it would make the test invalid.

3) The people who you want to pray for don't believe, they can actually stop God from moving. In Matthew 13 Jesus had the capacity to move, wanted to move but then couldn't as he said, "58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief."

This is just three of possibilities so my question is:

Are the parameter of the study taking into account prayer principles? Or just saying "Would you pray for these people" without asking how they are going to pray, what do they believe, what prayer are they going to use et al.

Please stay of topic if you want to discuss this.

Kierkegaard said that the function of prayer is not to influence God, but to change the nature of the one who prays. Those are the parameters for the test. Who was changed by praying?

 

[Kenny]

Kierkegaard said that the function of prayer is not to influence God, but to change the nature of the one who prays. Those are the parameters for the test. Who was changed by praying?

That certainly would be true in many cases and such an important part of prayer. However, there are more than one types of prayer so, for me, I also look to Jesus as an example as well as others.

So, for an example, there is a prayer of thanksgiving:

John 6:10 “Tell everyone to sit down,” Jesus said. So they all sat down on the grassy slopes. (The men alone numbered about 5,000.) 11 Then Jesus took the loaves, gave thanks to God, and distributed them to the people. Afterward he did the same with the fish. And they all ate as much as they wanted. 12 After everyone was full, Jesus told his disciples, “Now gather the leftovers, so that nothing is wasted.”

This prayer didn't change the nature of the one who prayed but it was for the benefit of others.

Prayer for healing is also a prayer - it changed the life of the person prayed for:
Acts 9:40 But Peter asked them all to leave the room; then he knelt and prayed. Turning to the body he said, “Get up, Tabitha.” And she opened her eyes! When she saw Peter, she sat up!

So, yes to your statement but there are many types of prayer and many time for the benefit for others to change.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You think pedophiles are looking for gay kids specifically? Huh? Are you still conflating "gay" with "pedophile?"

I thought that we had gone over that enough so that she understood that pedophilia is not at all related to being gay. Luckily our gay members do not seem to think that she is worthy of discussion. They would probably be reporting the heck out of this thread. They are probably right.