Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[Soapy]

Tight squeeze. Is it God that we declare that he lives forever and ever? Or Jesus!

Revelation 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”

And since when does God AND the Lamb receive the same blessing and honor and glory.

Who, may I ask, is the Alpha and Omega?

Kenny, it seems you are playing the naive game!

Your inquiries are illustrative of an infantile trinitarian.

‘Praise’, ‘Honor’, ‘Glory’, ‘Power’… are all things that ANYONE even in humanity who is justified can receive:

• An athlete who wins the race receives great honor and praise
• A statesman who fulfils his role receives glory and honor
• A king or nobleman receives great power from his subjects

The point in question was that ONLY HE WHO SAT ON the THRONE RECEIVED WORSHIP… which is underlined by the Elders throwing their crowns of rulership in front of the throne of He Who Sat On The Throne. This is a sign of submission and sacrifice.

And, ‘Alpha and Omega’? Why are you testing me?
‘Alpha and Omega’ means ‘First and Last’ (Letters of the Greek alphabet).

The term thus means ‘The ONLY ONE’.

Jesus is the only sinless human Son of God!

The first and last of anything means the only one of its type! There are no others.

The Alpha and Omega of anything means the only one of its type! There are no others.

Yahweh is the only true God: There are no others… There for Yahweh is the Alpha and Omega of all true God - He is the First and the last of all true Gods: the only one.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny, it seems you are playing the naive game!

Your inquiries are illustrative of an infantile trinitarian.

When you relegate a debate to these types of statements--it is always translated into "I really can't defend myself"

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

No, the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is also a title for Jesus since He brought the Holy Spirit.

Are you really reading your BIBLE? listen, there is only "ONE" Spirit correct. Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit, CORRECT, but you might say it's one Spirit here but two persons. well let the bible speak. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
that verse say that prophecy came by the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, let's see who this Holy Spirit is. remember this is the apostle Peter speaking by the Holy Spirit, and said, "prophecy" came by the Holy Spirit..

now this, the same apostle, the same Holy Spirit speaking, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

so, prophecy came by the Spirit of Christ who is Jesus the Christ, the SAME "ONE" PERSON. 2 Peter 1:21 say the one who was in the prophets of OLD who was in, in, in, them .... was Christ, "HIS" own Spirit. meaning the Holy Spirit, THE SAME "ONE" PERSON. Oh man, this is too easy not to understand.

Listen and try to understand, if I say, the spirit of Trailblazer, is that 101G's spirit? no, of course not. it's Trailblazer, the PERSON spirit, and not 101G the person spirit. are we getting this?

the spirit of Trailblazer, is the person Trailblazer.

the bible is clear, the Spirit of God is the PERSON, "JESUS". the Spirit of Christ is the PERSON, "JESUS". and the Holy Spirit is the PERSON, "JESUS" according to 2 Peter 1:21, and 1 Peter 1:10 & 11

now, if the apostle Peter is lying, then God is lying, (God forbid). for the apostle is speaking under the inspiration of God the Spirit, the HOLY SPIRIT, who is the Lord JESUS, God almighty, (THE ONE TRUE SPIRIT).

so, don't argue with 101G, but argue with God, and see how far you will get.

101G.

PS, one better learn the difference between one Spirit, and ONE PERSON, in the ECHAD of God. it will save one some headache. And heartbreaks.

 

[101G]

@ALL,
understand, there is only one person in the Godhead who is an ECHAD of himself. one need to study carefully what an ECHAD is of God., and God gives us the answer in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

examine that scripture closely, and carefully.. our "God" is ..... "ONE" ..... LORD. notice ONE "LORD". now here's the revelation. is there not the "Lord" God? yes, this is what I been saying, God is an ECHAD of "LORD", and "Lord". for the Lord is God.

Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
we know that the "LORD" is God, the YHWH, correct, but is the "Lord" YHWH also? let the bible speak.
in verse #1 here. the term "Lord" is
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.
Compare: H136
See also: H1777

take note of definition #1. human, or divine

now, verse 5. same chapter, it identifies who the "Lord" is in verse 1.
Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
THE SAME "Lord" AT HIS RIGHT HAND is the Hebrew word,
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113
Compare: H3068, H1167, H1168

notice Definition #2. look how the (PERSON) is put in parentheses to show that it's no doubt that the PERSON "Lord" in this verse is The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel”
the PERSON, the PERSON, the PERSON, yes, it's the SAME one PERSON in the ECHAD of the ONE God, of First and Last. JESUS said that he is the First and the Last. notice in Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." the LORD said he is the FIRST, but did not the Lord, (who is JESUS) say he is the FIRST?

now watch this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." I, I, I, I, a single Person is the FIRST/LORD, and ALSO the Last/Lord.

the First is also the Last, one cannot miss this, it's the same one person in the ECHAD of GOD.
also notice in the definition above, it says, it is the emphatic form of H113 BINGO, case closed. for H113 is Lord in verse 1.

101G

 

[Soapy]

When you relegate a debate to these types of statements--it is always translated into "I really can't defend myself"

Kenny, what I am saying is that if you are going to post such trivial primitive claims then you deserve to get shot down.

There should not be any dispute over what the terms ‘Alpha and Omega’ and ‘First and last’ mean.

You appear to just toss them into a debate as though you think you found something fundamental in favour of a trinity ideology…

NO, Kenny…!

‘First and Last’ mean Only One…

‘Alpha and Omega’ mean the same thing : Only One.

Why - did you think you would be applauded by Trinitarians for your apparently great revelation? Well, maybe they would do that since they uphold anything that appears to support their fallacy - the very nature of the term, ‘Snatching at straws’!

And ‘Praise’, ‘Honor’, ‘Glory’, ‘Power’… wow! You again thought that was worth debasing yourself in trying to claim that this showed that Jesus is almighty God…?

Well, Kenny, how many GOD(s) do we have in the world - since we, world wide, have in humanity millions whom we ‘Praise’, ‘Glorify’, ‘Honor’, and ‘Give Power’ to!… are you going to worship them all, too.

No Kenny! Worship means giving yourself over to that thing or person in total. Worship means sacrificing ourselves or our possessions to that person or thing… it means letting that person or thing be our ruler, our law giver, our ‘raisin d’etre’ of existence.

And, in that, there is only one: Almighty God.

Jesus Christ is the shepherd who leads us errant sheep back to the penfold of the only true God: the Father: Yahweh.

We must not worship the shepherd for he is not our master, our ruler, our God… his purpose is to bring us back to him who is the ruler; him who is our God; ‘He who sat on the throne’!

But both the shepherd and the owner of the sheep are worthy of praise, worthy of glory, worthy of honor, worthy of power, in respect of their personal roles in our salvation.

 

[Soapy]

“In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” (Rev 5:12)

“Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” (Rev 5:13)

TO HIM WHO SAT IN THE THRONE….
And
TO THE LAMB… the lamb of God who was slain for the salvation of mankind…

According to trinity, both ‘Him who sat on the throne’ and ‘Him who is the lamb of him who sat on the throne’ are both the same person: God!!!?

In one moment ‘God’ is the lamb… in another moment God is the one who is sitting on the throne unto whom the elders throw their crowns in sacrifice and worship.

And yet these are only TWO of a THREE PERSON GOD!!

The third so-called ‘God’ is illustrated as seven spirits belonging to God:

• “Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the [front and center] of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.” (Rev 5:6)

Seven spirits , one lamb in front of the throne, one monarch on his throne…

What this shows is that God put His seven spirits on Jesus Christ, the lamb - these seven spirits are base ‘Gifts’ that are also given to mankind such that mankind can perform much, but less than, that Jesus could do… these Spirits are the power of God in the earth and Heaven.
The seven spirits are what was used to anoint Jesus to make him Christ.
The seven spirits are those used to anoint the disciples to make them Apostles at Pentecost.

The seven spirit of God are not WORSHIPPED, let alone are they praised, glorified, honored, or given power…!!

 

[Trailblazer]

Sounds reasonable to me until I look and see that Jesus was by nature God and man.
The Father is called the only true God in the New Testament. The Son is in His Father and His Father is in Him according to those scriptures. Also the Spirit is in both of them and both of them are in the Spirit.
So the Son becoming a man is not God becoming a man but is the Son of God becoming a man.

That is correct. The Son becoming a man is not God becoming a man but is the Son of God becoming a man.
More specifically, it was Son of God being sent by God and 'coming' as a man.

BUT when people saw the Son back then they were looking at the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the one package, the Son.
When the Father does anything the Son and Spirit are doing it.
When the Son does anything the Father and Spirit are doing it.
When the Spirit does anything the Father and Spirit are doing it.
The Father is at the top of the natural hierarchy. The Son is second and the Spirit next.
This is sort of how I see things anyway and so I will say imo.

I agree with that.

Here is how I see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and their relationship to each other.

The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God, an emanation from God which became visible in Jesus Christ when Jesus walked the earth. God is like the sun and the Holy Spirit is like the rays of the sun. God remains in His own high place, and does not ever descend to earth.

Put another way, Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in Jesus.

God the Father is One Being and when God sent Jesus into this world God sent His Holy Spirit. Jesus then brought God's Holy Spirit to the world and He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. (Gleanings, pp. 85-86)

God the Father worked through Jesus and the Holy Spirit, so they are kind of like a team, and in that sense they can be thought of as three persons of a Trinity.

So anyway the Father did not become a man and the Spirit did not become a man. Only the Son became a man and did what He did but when everyone saw the Son they were actually seeing the totality of God there (all 3) with the Son being equal in nature to His Father and all 3 being involved in what Jesus was doing even if they were literally not doing it themselves, but Jesus was.

I agree with that. That is why I said all 3 were working as part of a team. Jesus was doing everything with the help of God and the Holy Spirit.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

The Bible tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. (2Cor 5:19)
Jesus tells us that if we see Him we have seen the Father. (John 14:9)

True. Jesus was a mirror image of God although God did not descend into that image, since God never descends to earth.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

OK no point in arguing that. It is confusing when God is said to say ""Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him (Me), the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”"
It would be better if it said Me instead of Him, where I have indicated above, imo.

I never noticed that before but you are right. Maybe it would have been better if it said Me instead of Him where you indicated it, and that would be more consistent with the earlier part of the passage that says there is none other God besides Me. But if you read it, Him also works, since it is obvious Him refers to God, since it is followed by "the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”

God says: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”

So anyway, the spiritual part of Jesus is the essence of God which nobody could understand (according to you) and it was incarnate in Jesus if Jesus was actually a man.

I would not say it was incarnate in Jesus, only that it was manifested in Jesus.

 

[InChrist]

Squirming won’t help you - on the last day!

But you still have time to alter your ideology.

The thread title asks a pertinent question to which the answer is ‘No! Paul doesn’t claim Jesus is almighty God’.

And neither does anyone else in scriptures. It is those outside of scriptures, to wit, those who aspire to the teachings of the ‘Holy (!?) Roman Catholic’ faith of which trinitarianism is its base teaching. The warning is clear:

• “Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;” (Rev 18:4)
• There will be a cry out: “’Woe! Woe to you, great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!” (Rev 18:16)

The Roman Catholic Church came into ‘Church Law’ when it was underwritten by the Roman Emperor Constantine.

Trinitarianism states that Jesus is God and was before creation. But the truth is that this is not true. I am not claiming that Arianism was true either… two opposing ideologies, one found to be untrue… DOES NOT mean that the other MUST BE TRUE!!

But let’s ignore Arianism as it has all but disappeared and taught only by Jehovah Witnesses (I’m thinking correct me if not!!)

Trinitarianism is dictated by creeds… I am really happy that no one has chosen to include any of it as their ‘proof’ that Jesus is God since creeds are manmade - Yes, please stick to scriptures to try (unsatisfactorily) to make your claims.

The problem with trinity claims is that when the protagonist is shown that the claim is false, they just ‘move on’ and have no regard to what else might be untrue.

This attitude actually demonstrates how deep the fallacy is dug into Trinitarians. They cannot see over the precipice so they remain in the ditch that they think they know.

The verse referred to in the O.P. is clearly a modification of what the apostle Paul actually said.
No one in his time had any thought of a Three-person-God. No one ever thought of the man they walked and talked and suffered with (though Paul, himself, only came about after Jesus was raised up to Heaven BY GOD… the GOD trinity claims was Jesus Christ!!) was almighty God.

Trinitarians cannot express a totality of the quest of Jesus in the name of God, his Father. They just keep cycling and recycling the same old same old fallacies taught to them by false teachers of the gospels.

I am not a Catholic, nor an adherent to any denominational manmade creeds. The scriptures adamantly reveal the Triune Nature of the Godhead. Paul, as well as the other Apostles, came to understand and know that Jesus Christ was God the Son who came to dwell in the flesh.

Repeatedly, Paul demonstrated this in his letters by using Old Testament monotheistic passages which uniquely referred to YHWH, but applied he them to the Lord Jesus Christ. A couple examples…

Joel 2:32 “whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be delivered “ refers to YWHW.

Romans 10:13 “whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved “,
Paul applies to Jesus.

————
Psalm 24:1, in reference to YWHW says…
The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness,
The world and those who dwell therein.


In 1 Corinthians 10 Paul is referring to Christ when he says…for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.” ( vs. 26).

Also, Paul writes:

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came,who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Romans 9:1-5

And…

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:9,10


And…

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

————

Then in…

Matthew 1:23

Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel' (which means, God with us).

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered him, 'My Lord and my God!'


1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


I have no desire to continue arguing back and forth with you. You are free to continue denying the Person and Godhood of Jesus Christ. I just find it rather odd and disturbing that someone who claims to believe in God and the Bible has such animosity towards Jesus. Yet, He says there are those who never knew Him.

 

[Trailblazer]

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’
It is true that John 14:28 could refer to Jesus coming back in the Spirit and making His home with the disciples along with the Father. (John 14:23) but John 14:3 is about Jesus promising to return to get His disciples and take them to be with Him. This is what is shown in 1Thessalonians 4.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

"I will come again," Come where again? The verse does not say I will come back to earth again.

Jesus said He would come again, but Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago.

When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in heaven, not on earth.

The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah who was the return of Christ that Jesus promised. So when Jesus said “I will come again” He meant that His Spirit would come again because He would send His Spirit from the Father, and we see that in the verses that follow in John 14. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send a Comforter. The Comforter refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

John 14 KJV

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

"and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

And of course we know that the promise of the coming of the Son of Man is about Jesus also because the Son of Man is identified as Jesus in the gospels and the Son of Man comes to judge, which is the work of the Son only. (John 5:22,23)

Jesus was the Son of Man, but Baha’u’llah was also the Son of man because He was the return of Christ.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

To paraphrase Baha’u’llah, Son of man coming on the clouds means that the return of the Christ Spirit will appear in the form of another human being, which Baha’is call a Manifestation of God. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although they were delivered from the womb of their mother, Manifestations of God have in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, their true habitations are the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, they soar in the heaven of the divine presence.

Sometimes I talk to people and it is like there is something wrong with their eyesight and they cannot see what it plainly being shown to them in a passage. In this case it is the fact that the disciples did see Jesus rise up and go into heaven. I even highlighted the part where it says that. I'll do it again.
I could do the same with other parts of the passage also which you seem to also not see, but this part is would be a good start to be able to see, so that you are not blatantly denying what the Bible says.

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Let's just take that part that you emphasized.
as ye have seen him go into heaven.

How did they see Jesus go into heaven? The passage does not say they saw the physical body of Jesus ascend to heaven. It was the spirit of Jesus that ascended and it was the spirit of Jesus that descended later, when Christ returned in the person of Baha'u'llah. Since Jesus ascended in spirit and Baha'u'llah descended in spirit, it was in like manner.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation…. O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life…” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 91

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92

 

[InChrist]

GINOLJC, to all.

Are you really reading your BIBLE? listen, there is only "ONE" Spirit correct. Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit, CORRECT, but you might say it's one Spirit here but two persons. well let the bible speak. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
that verse say that prophecy came by the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, let's see who this Holy Spirit is. remember this is the apostle Peter speaking by the Holy Spirit, and said, "prophecy" came by the Holy Spirit..

now this, the same apostle, the same Holy Spirit speaking, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

so, prophecy came by the Spirit of Christ who is Jesus the Christ, the SAME "ONE" PERSON. 2 Peter 1:21 say the one who was in the prophets of OLD who was in, in, in, them .... was Christ, "HIS" own Spirit. meaning the Holy Spirit, THE SAME "ONE" PERSON. Oh man, this is too easy not to understand.

Listen and try to understand, if I say, the spirit of Trailblazer, is that 101G's spirit? no, of course not. it's Trailblazer, the PERSON spirit, and not 101G the person spirit. are we getting this?

the spirit of Trailblazer, is the person Trailblazer.

the bible is clear, the Spirit of God is the PERSON, "JESUS". the Spirit of Christ is the PERSON, "JESUS". and the Holy Spirit is the PERSON, "JESUS" according to 2 Peter 1:21, and 1 Peter 1:10 & 11

now, if the apostle Peter is lying, then God is lying, (God forbid). for the apostle is speaking under the inspiration of God the Spirit, the HOLY SPIRIT, who is the Lord JESUS, God almighty, (THE ONE TRUE SPIRIT).

so, don't argue with 101G, but argue with God, and see how far you will get.

101G.

PS, one better learn the difference between one Spirit, and ONE PERSON, in the ECHAD of God. it will save one some headache. And heartbreaks.

I am just trying to understand exactly what you mean. So is this what you are saying?



“There is one more clear proof of the truine nature of the God of Israel.

Isaiah 48:16 And now YHVH and His Ruach (Spirit) have sent Me (an eternal person speaking in verse 12 and 16 – Yeshua)

Three entities can be clearly seen in that verse. The nature of God is a mystery, but we can clearly see that although God is Echad, He is much more than that –

He is Echad and He is Elohim – Hallelu YAH

The LORD bless you and keep you as you seek Biblical truth and incorporate it into your spiritual life.”

The meaning of the word Echad - One » Kehila News Israel

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s all a game to them!

A game they cannot win.

 

[Trailblazer]

101G said: ↑
the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the "COMFORTER", didn't U know that?

Trailblazer said: ↑
No, the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. The Comforter is also a title for Jesus since He brought the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God that emanated from God through Jesus.
The Comforter is a title given to Jesus since Jesus brought the Holy Spirit, which is the Bounty of God, to man.

GINOLJC, to all.
the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same Spirit, CORRECT,

That is correct, since Jesus Christ is the Spirit of God, according to the Bible and the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
Jesus Christ is the Spirit of God because Jesus brought God's Holy Spirit to man.
However, Jesus is not the only man who ever brought God's Holy Spirit to man.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

 

[InChrist]

A game they cannot win.

Probably a lot more serious than a game, because if Jesus is not God, then humanity has no Savior and no hope. Only God has the ability to save and grant forgiveness of sin and eternal life. Jesus went to the cross to pay for the sins of the world and conquer death. According to the scriptures the Savior is God.

Old Testament:
I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11

Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.
Isaiah 45:21


Yet I am the Lord your God Ever since the land of Egypt, And you shall know no God but Me; For there is no savior besides Me.
Hosea 13:4

New Testament:

For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:11

Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”
John 4:42


For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Philippians 3:20


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope. 1 Timothy 1:1

 

[Trailblazer]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,

That is correct. God was manifested in the flesh, but God did not become flesh.
God manifested Himself as the man Jesus who came in the flesh.

 

[101G]

I am just trying to understand exactly what you mean. So is this what you are saying?



“There is one more clear proof of the truine nature of the God of Israel.

Isaiah 48:16 And now YHVH and His Ruach (Spirit) have sent Me (an eternal person speaking in verse 12 and 16 – Yeshua)

Three entities can be clearly seen in that verse. The nature of God is a mystery, but we can clearly see that although God is Echad, He is much more than that –

He is Echad and He is Elohim – Hallelu YAH

The LORD bless you and keep you as you seek Biblical truth and incorporate it into your spiritual life.”

The meaning of the word Echad - One » Kehila News Israel

first thanks for the reply, but you handle the scriptures as a babe. get the whole truth and nothing but the TRUTH.
I'm Glad you used the scripture here. Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

now your deductive reasoning is this, THREE PERSON, Correct? the Lord God, the Father correct, and his Spirit, HIS Spirit another person correct, sent a third person, (Jesus Christ)... correct?

well let the bible tell us if it's three persons or not, instead of assuming it.

God word, listen and LEARN. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" it seems like one person, God the Father, Gave his Son, (Jesus, the Christ), a second person something, (the Revelation), and he, either the Father, the Lord God, as many say, or Jesus the Christ sent his angel to John .... correct. let's see who sent his, his, his, angel to John.

the angel who was sent, tells us who sent him, LISTEN, (the angel who was sent, is speaking), Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

STOP, "the Lord God?", yes, the same Lord God in Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

now, the Lord God and HIS, HIS, HIS, Spirit, the same Lord God in Isaiah 48:16, sent the angel to John
, correct? mostly every oner I have spoken with, even SCHOLARS told me to my face, that the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Father. so, in Isaiah 48:16 all said, not every, but all said the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Fathers. meaning the God of the OT, and one Scholar said he wrote a book on the subject, here at hand. ... well Good. but no cigar.

because as I pointed out to him, (and now you), and other, only one thing, the Lord God here as well as in Isaiah 48:16 is the Lord JESUS, and they say show it to them in Scriptures. and I did, and now unto you. I didn't have to go far. right there in the SAME, yes, SAME chapter of Revelation, 22, now verse 16. LISTEN, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

so it was the Lord God, (JESUS) .... of the holy Prophets, who sent his angel to John. now back up to Isaiah 48:16 again and put the Lord Jesus in the VERSE instead of the title the Lord God, and this is what you have,

Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, (JESUS), and his Spirit, hath sent me.".his Spirit is him, the Lord Jesus.
the opposite of sent, is "COME", John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

who is his Father? not biological, but Spirit, he, himself. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

HIS, HIS, HIS, .... "OWN", "OWN", "OWN" ARM?, yes, he himself shared in Flesh, the ECHAD of his OWN, OWN, OWN, Self. ..... HELLO, the ECHAD in plain view. ,,,,, YIKES!

this is just too easy not to understand.

conclusion, it is only one person in the ECHAD of God at Isaiah 48:16. MY GOD, how HARFD is it?
this is where nthe HOLY SPIRIT, the TEACHER comes in at, GUIDING us in ..... ALL TRUTH.

101G.

if you have any question, (legitimate Ones), please ask. now before you ask, back track your-self and find your mistake from the scriptures 101G provided. ....... FIRST.

thanks in advance.

 

[Trailblazer]

Probably a lot more serious than a game, because if Jesus is not God, then humanity has no Savior and no hope. Only God has the ability to save and grant forgiveness of sin and eternal life. Jesus went to the cross to pay for the sins of the world and conquer death. According to the scriptures the Savior is God.

Jesus did not have to become God in order to be our Savior.
Jesus was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate.
God forever remains on His Throne in heaven. God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus to save humanity. All the acts and doings of Jesus were God's will.
According to the scriptures the Savior is Jesus.

You are right, this is not a game, because without Jesus there would be no hope.

 

[Trailblazer]

if you have any question, (legitimate Ones), please ask.

I have a question.
Why do you think that different Christians read the same Bible verses and come to different conclusions about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit?

 

[InChrist]

Jesus did not have to become God in order to be our Savior.
Jesus was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate.
God forever remains on His Throne in heaven. God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus to save humanity. All the acts and doings of Jesus were God's will.
According to the scriptures the Savior is Jesus.

You are right, this is not a game, because without Jesus there would be no hope.

Except that the scriptures clearly state God become flesh…

Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel' (which means, God with us).


For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:9,10


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

 

[InChrist]

first thanks for the reply, but you handle the scriptures as a babe. get the whole truth and nothing but the TRUTH.
I'm Glad you used the scripture here. Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

now your deductive reasoning is this, THREE PERSON, Correct? the Lord God, the Father correct, and his Spirit, HIS Spirit another person correct, sent a third person, (Jesus Christ)... correct?

well let the bible tell us if it's three persons or not, instead of assuming it.

God word, listen and LEARN. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" it seems like one person, God the Father, Gave his Son, (Jesus, the Christ), a second person something, (the Revelation), and he, either the Father, the Lord God, as many say, or Jesus the Christ sent his angel to John .... correct. let's see who sent his, his, his, angel to John.

the angel who was sent, tells us who sent him, LISTEN, (the angel who was sent, is speaking), Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

STOP, "the Lord God?", yes, the same Lord God in Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

now, the Lord God and HIS, HIS, HIS, Spirit, the same Lord God in Isaiah 48:16, sent the angel to John
, correct? mostly every oner I have spoken with, even SCHOLARS told me to my face, that the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Father. so, in Isaiah 48:16 all said, not every, but all said the Lord God of the holy Prophets is the Fathers. meaning the God of the OT, and one Scholar said he wrote a book on the subject, here at hand. ... well Good. but no cigar.

because as I pointed out to him, (and now you), and other, only one thing, the Lord God here as well as in Isaiah 48:16 is the Lord JESUS, and they say show it to them in Scriptures. and I did, and now unto you. I didn't have to go far. right there in the SAME, yes, SAME chapter of Revelation, 22, now verse 16. LISTEN, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

so it was the Lord God, (JESUS) .... of the holy Prophets, who sent his angel to John. now back up to Isaiah 48:16 again and put the Lord Jesus in the VERSE instead of the title the Lord God, and this is what you have,

Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, (JESUS), and his Spirit, hath sent me.".his Spirit is him, the Lord Jesus.
the opposite of sent, is "COME", John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

who is his Father? not biological, but Spirit, he, himself. listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

HIS, HIS, HIS, .... "OWN", "OWN", "OWN" ARM?, yes, he himself shared in Flesh, the ECHAD of his OWN, OWN, OWN, Self. ..... HELLO, the ECHAD in plain view. ,,,,, YIKES!

this is just too easy not to understand.

conclusion, it is only one person in the ECHAD of God at Isaiah 48:16. MY GOD, how HARFD is it?
this is where nthe HOLY SPIRIT, the TEACHER comes in at, GUIDING us in ..... ALL TRUTH.

101G.

if you have any question, (legitimate Ones), please ask. now before you ask, back track your-self and find your mistake from the scriptures 101G provided. ....... FIRST.

thanks in advance.

I find your writing style somewhat difficult to follow, but I thank you for your response. Are you saying that Jesus was God referenced in the OT ? If so, that is my understanding. I do believe it was Jesus Who reached down His arm to become flesh as the Savior of humanity and it was Jesus that sent the angel in Revelation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Except that the scriptures clearly state God become flesh…

Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel' (which means, God with us).

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:9,10

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

Those verses do not say that God became flesh.

"God was manifested in the flesh,"

Jesus was a Manifestation of God in the flesh, but a Manifestation is not identical to what it manifests.
A Manifestation of God is as close as we can ever get to God, but He is not actually God in the flesh.

The verse above does not say that God was incarnated in the flesh.
If God had been incarnated in the flesh that would mean that God became the man Jesus.
But God cannot become a man because God is spirit.