Doctrinal differences

[Merlin]

Are there really any doctrinal differences between any of the denominations?

if we ignore whether we believe in this particular prophet or a different prophet, whether we accept this particular head of the church, or a different head of the Church. If we ignore whether women should preach or they should be subservient, and whether there is a Trinity or there isn't etc, etc

Are there any real fundamental differences in our belief in God, even between Christians and Muslims and Jews, let alone the dozens of different Christian denominations.

If you believe there are, why don't you list the five main ways in which your faith system differs from everybody else's

 

[Aqualung]

Well, I'd say that what you told us to ignore are significant doctrinal differences. "If we ignore all the significant doctrinal differences, are there any significant doctrinal differences?"

 

[Merlin]

Well, I'd say that what you told us to ignore are significant doctrinal differences. "If we ignore all the significant doctrinal differences, are there any significant doctrinal differences?"

Sorry, what I meant it is it cannot be important to God whether somebody believes that the Pope is head of the church or the Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of the church. This doesn't change fundamental doctrine.

Unless you think the name of the 'boss of the organisation' is doctrinal

 

[Aqualung]

Okay. Let's take it point by point. Whether you agree with a certain prophet. I'd say that's a huge doctrinal difference. Look at what it has done! It has created three major relgions (jews beleiving Jesus was a prophet; Islam beleiving mohammed was a prophet; and christians beleive Jesus wasn't just a prophet) plus some major christian sects (LDS beleiving Joseph Smith was a prophet). IT creates splits with people who beleive in continued revelation and those who don't. That's probably one of the most major things.

Acceptance of a particular head of the church is another thing. Most, if not all, christians beleive that Christ is the head of the church. But Catholics beleive christ gave authority to the pope. LDS belevie the prophet receives direct revelation from christ, and is acting in Christ's name on earth. Quakers don't beleive there is a head of the church. Another huge differnece.

Women. Once again, a huge difference. Should women be priests? That's a major contention amoung faith.

The trinity is the biggest one there is. That describes the fundmental nature of God and his son, and causes major, major contentions. Is god corporeal in nature? Are god and his son one and the same? That's a major thing

 

[Green Gaia]

This looks like an interesting discussion, but I'm not sure I can join in as we UUs have no dogma... so there you go.

 

[Merlin]

Okay. Let's take it point by point. Whether you agree with a certain prophet. I'd say that's a huge doctrinal difference. Look at what it has done! It has created three major relgions (jews beleiving Jesus was a prophet; Islam beleiving mohammed was a prophet; and christians beleive Jesus wasn't just a prophet) plus some major christian sects (LDS beleiving Joseph Smith was a prophet). IT creates splits with people who beleive in continued revelation and those who don't. That's probably one of the most major things.

Acceptance of a particular head of the church is another thing. Most, if not all, christians beleive that Christ is the head of the church. But Catholics beleive christ gave authority to the pope. LDS belevie the prophet receives direct revelation from christ, and is acting in Christ's name on earth. Quakers don't beleive there is a head of the church. Another huge differnece.

Women. Once again, a huge difference. Should women be priests? That's a major contention amoung faith.

The trinity is the biggest one there is. That describes the fundmental nature of God and his son, and causes major, major contentions. Is god corporeal in nature? Are god and his son one and the same? That's a major thing

I suppose we are really arguing at this stage about the definition of docrinal.

Personally, I don't care whether the Pope or Joseph Smith or the Archbishop of Canterbury or Mohammed is the guide to our route to God. I find it quite surprising that many faiths are centred on their faith not on God. It seems, and this thread has begun to expose this; that people believe organisational differences are actually fundamental differences in belief in God.

Does your faith system have a basic creed? If it does, does it start

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

(or the equivalent)

 

[Merlin]

This looks like an interesting discussion, but I'm not sure I can join in as we UUs have no dogma... so there you go.

You must have a basic faith, and the way in which your basic beliefs would differ from (for example) Roman Catholics (excluding your non-belief in the Pope)

Do you have a creed?

 

[Green Gaia]

You must have a basic faith, and the way in which your basic beliefs would differ from (for example) Roman Catholics (excluding your non-belief in the Pope)

Do you have a creed?

No.

We have our Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Everything else about belief is left up to the individual.

 

[michel]

I think you will find that there are huge doctrinal differences between 'branches' of Christianity.


When I say 'huge' I mean it as in the way they are seen to be by some........

I would say that is a credd, Maize - perhaps not in the original sense, but hey, live up to those, and you'll hear no grumbles from anyone.

 

[scitsofreaky]

No.

We have our Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Everything else about belief is left up to the individual.

What is your personal belief? How are you "searching for truth and meaning"? (Same question, imo, but put differently). UU is about the inherint worth in all beliefs, including your own, so speak up:jam:

 

[jonny]

No.

We have our Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Everything else about belief is left up to the individual.

Does every church have a set of these? They remind me of our Articles of Faith. It might be an interesting thread to have everyone post their churches so that they can be compared. I'd start the thread, but I don't know what to call them.

 

[Merlin]

No.

We have our Principles:

We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

Everything else about belief is left up to the individual.

Nobody could argue with that

 

[Merlin]

Does every church have a set of these? They remind me of our Articles of Faith. It might be an interesting thread to have everyone post their churches so that they can be compared. I'd start the thread, but I don't know what to call them.

That was actually the purpose of this thread, this is why I started it. These are what I call doctrinal differences

Maybe we could all post our own

 

[Green Gaia]

I would say that is a credd, Maize - perhaps not in the original sense, but hey, live up to those, and you'll hear no grumbles from anyone.

I don't agree it is a creed. A creed is a confession of faith. None of our principles do you have to take on faith.

 

[Merlin]

I think you will find that there are huge doctrinal differences between 'branches' of Christianity.

I don't believe so. I actually believe that we all believe in the same thing, but somehow the people who organise the individual structures of each denomination try to set themselves apart from other denominations. The differences, when looked at objectively, are completely irrelevant and trivial.

If I'm wrong, there must be Christian denominations that do not believe in God as the father Almighty, and His son Jesus as our Saviour.

If they all believe in that, the rest of it is packaging

 

[Green Gaia]

Does every church have a set of these? They remind me of our Articles of Faith. It might be an interesting thread to have everyone post their churches so that they can be compared. I'd start the thread, but I don't know what to call them.

Sort of, and I'm not sure every church does this. For my church we recite: Love is the message of this church, and service is its law. This is our great covenant together – to dwell together in peace, to seek the truth in love, and to help one another. Which is basically the Principles in a shorter and reworded version. I doubt anyone recites the Principles verbatim, but some may have their own version like we do.

 

[Merlin]

Sort of, and I'm not sure every church does this. For my church we recite: Love is the message of this church, and service is its law. This is our great covenant together – to dwell together in peace, to seek the truth in love, and to help one another. Which is basically the Principles in a shorter and reworded version. I doubt anyone recites the Principles verbatim, but some may have their own version like we do.

Do you have a Bible? What texts do you use for preaching (assuming people preach)

 

[Green Gaia]

What is your personal belief? How are you "searching for truth and meaning"? (Same question, imo, but put differently). UU is about the inherint worth in all beliefs, including your own, so speak up:jam:

Well, thanks for asking, but I don't want to get this thread off topic anymore than I already have.

But I have to correct you when you said UU is about the inherint worth in all beliefs. That's not completely correct. We do believe in the The inherent worth and dignity of every person, and that wisdom can be found in the world's religions, but that does not mean every belief has inherent worth.

 

[Green Gaia]

Do you have a Bible? What texts do you use for preaching (assuming people preach)

Yes, I personally have a Bible... and a Ouran, a copy of Buddhist, Daotist, and Hindu texts, a copy of the Book of Mormon... and probably some other texts that I'm forgetting at the moment.

We don't preach. But we do use all of those texts I mentioned and more, including secular sources of philosophy and humanistic teachings.

 

[Aqualung]

You say organisational structure is not important at all. However, I view organisational structure as the most important thing. Jesus specifically set up his church how he wanted it to run, and we should follow that. People have weird deffinitions about what worshipping God means, so it's important that Jesus set up what he actually wanted us to do.