Do we really follow Christ?

[LUKAS]

I have only one question to the Christian Baptists that support/ed the war on Iraq. how can you do that? I mean, if we really sticked to what Jesus said, we should be totally against any kind of violence or war, shouldn't we? we should not pay an eye for an eye, that's what Jesus said, right? we shouldn't kill innocent people (most people killed in wars have nothing to do with the conflict, regardless of what George W. Bush said).

Remember when Jesus was taken to be crucified? Peter came over and cut the soldier's ear, He didn't say: well done, Peter! He took the ear and put it back in place. Isn't that what we, as christians are supposed to do? love our enemies?
well, that was my question, hope you guys can answer.
see you
LUKAS

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I am not opposed to fighting for freedom, both for myself and for others. WWII was completely needed - some people needed to be killed to stop the spread of the Nazis and their ruthless ambition. Sadaam was a brutal killer - he killed much more of his own people than we did through collataral damage. At least now Iraq has the promise for a future with freedom.

However, I think that the philosophy of pre-imptive war was flawed from the beginning, and Iraq is the perfect test-case. Our intelligence is not conducive to a pre-imptive attack, and it could bite us in the *** 10000x stronger if we do it elsewhere. We are going to need allies, and they are going to be less willing to help if we continue to alineate them.

 

[may]

I have only one question to the Christian Baptists that support/ed the war on Iraq. how can you do that? I mean, if we really sticked to what Jesus said, we should be totally against any kind of violence or war, shouldn't we? we should not pay an eye for an eye, that's what Jesus said, right? we shouldn't kill innocent people (most people killed in wars have nothing to do with the conflict, regardless of what George W. Bush said).

Remember when Jesus was taken to be crucified? Peter came over and cut the soldier's ear, He didn't say: well done, Peter! He took the ear and put it back in place. Isn't that what we, as christians are supposed to do? love our enemies?
well, that was my question, hope you guys can answer.
see you
LUKAS

yes , thats right so who really are living up to to jesus teaching , who really is loving there neigbor of another country by not learning war anymore.
And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore(ISAIAH 2;4)

 

[johnnys4life]

Well, if a soldier did kill an innocent person and it was avoidable, obviously that would be a sin, and probably a huge no-no in the military as well. That's not why they're there. If you see how much violence and killing is going on in Iraq that has nothing to do with us, I think you'll agree that something has to be done. I don't keep up much on war, so I can't tell you what I think. I voted for Bush because he is pro-life. I will always vote pro-life. Millions of babies being killed each year is far more atrocious than any war in the world right now.

 

[BUDDY]

I have only one question to the Christian Baptists that support/ed the war on Iraq. how can you do that? I mean, if we really sticked to what Jesus said, we should be totally against any kind of violence or war, shouldn't we? we should not pay an eye for an eye, that's what Jesus said, right? we shouldn't kill innocent people (most people killed in wars have nothing to do with the conflict, regardless of what George W. Bush said).

Remember when Jesus was taken to be crucified? Peter came over and cut the soldier's ear, He didn't say: well done, Peter! He took the ear and put it back in place. Isn't that what we, as christians are supposed to do? love our enemies?
well, that was my question, hope you guys can answer.
see you
LUKAS

I think that obeying those that have rule over you, and being a Christian (following Christ) can be done and I think the Bible points this out. I would not call a person a hypocrite for being in the military and being a Christian. You can do both.

 

[LUKAS]

I don't believe any war is just or necessary. Christ came here to change the world and He didn't do it thru violence. Why should we do so?
Are we so eager to throw down Saddam as we are to erradicate poverty or preventing it from spreading throughout the world as it is now? C'mon guys, we know that's bull...
every missile Tomahawk costs $1 million. do you know how many people you can feed and educate with that money???
I don't wanna sound moralist or ingenuous, I'm just saying that if you're pro-life with regards to abortion, you should be as pro-life when it comes to being against wars.
Iraqis' lifes are not less worthy than americans' babies.

 

[chief30]

I have only one question to the Christian Baptists that support/ed the war on Iraq. how can you do that? I mean, if we really sticked to what Jesus said, we should be totally against any kind of violence or war, shouldn't we? we should not pay an eye for an eye, that's what Jesus said, right? we shouldn't kill innocent people (most people killed in wars have nothing to do with the conflict, regardless of what George W. Bush said).

Remember when Jesus was taken to be crucified? Peter came over and cut the soldier's ear, He didn't say: well done, Peter! He took the ear and put it back in place. Isn't that what we, as christians are supposed to do? love our enemies?
well, that was my question, hope you guys can answer.
see you
LUKAS

First of all Bush is a terrible Prezident and its understandable about killing innicent people that its bad but, it happens. If it didnt, this would be a perfect world. If everyone followed Christ, this would be a perfect world.

Considering this isnt a perfect world, bad things will happen like war and anything else. But to look back at history, Popes usta be leaders in war. Not saying thats good just saying... its gonna happen and we must try our best to follow Him.

 

[ayani]

no, i don't support the war in Iraq. we should not be fighting violence and terror with more violence and terror. i wonder what on earth ever became of seventh Beatitude, or of the idea of "turning the other cheek" in the lives of some Christians? war and Christ's message are not compatable.

 

[jimbob]

Whoa. Okay, lets talk about the pro's and cons here. We went to fight for justice. Thats good, not bad. Secondly, we got rid of some really bad people, thats good, not bad. If we did kill a few innocent people thats bad not good. We'd defeated the bad people who would have killed the innocent people we kille plus hundreds more, thats good, not bad. We got Sadam Hussein, who ahd killed tons of people and would have killed tons more if we hadn't stopped him, thats good, not bad. Because of us, innocent people are now able to live much better lives, thats good, not bad. innocent people might have been hurt or killed by terrorists, thats bad, not good. We are out to eliminate terrorists, thats good, not bad.

GET MY POINT?

P.S. Bush aint a terrible prez, because he made a few bad decisions. If you want a prez to complain about, try Nixon or Reagan.

 

[ayani]

no, i don't really get your point. i don't see the issues as that black and white. true, Saddam is gone. meanwhile, religious extremeists are taking over Iraq, women's rights are getting flushed down the proverbial toilet, people keep getting abducted and killed, and the world still hates America. this war was a lousy idea. wow! who could've forseen that!

 

[jimbob]

no, i don't really get your point. i don't see the issues as that black and white. true, Saddam is gone. meanwhile, religious extremeists are taking over Iraq, women's rights are getting flushed down the proverbial toilet, people keep getting abducted and killed, and the world still hates America. this war was a lousy idea. wow! who could've forseen that!

You are only focusing on the negative side of things. The whole world doesn't hate us, in fact, the U.N. agrees with us, they just have the guts to do anything about it. About womans rights, well guess what, they are currently working an getting woman rights. sure people keep getting abducted and killed. Ever think though, that maybe we should focus on the americans here at home. Thousands of people in america are either killed, raped, or abducted a day.

 

[ayani]

Ever think though, that maybe we should focus on the americans here at home. Thousands of people in america are either killed, raped, or abducted a day.

quite so. with all these horrendous domestic problems, why are we pouring billions of dollars into the Iraq war again?

 

[johnnys4life]

Just remember what Jesus said in Matthew when his disciples asked him about the signs of his coming. He told them that there would be "wars and rumors of wars" but that is the beginning of birth pangs. Now as anybody who's given birth knows, birth pangs start out fairly weak and far apart, and then get closer togethor and a heck of a lot more painful. And that is what's going to happen with the wars, as well as famines and earthquakes. They will never end, not until Christ returns, and in fact there will be more of them, and worse ones at that. So we should do what we can to give compassion to and protect others, but these wars are destined to occur.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't believe any war is just or necessary. Christ came here to change the world and He didn't do it thru violence. Why should we do so?
Are we so eager to throw down Saddam as we are to erradicate poverty or preventing it from spreading throughout the world as it is now? C'mon guys, we know that's bull...
every missile Tomahawk costs $1 million. do you know how many people you can feed and educate with that money???
I don't wanna sound moralist or ingenuous, I'm just saying that if you're pro-life with regards to abortion, you should be as pro-life when it comes to being against wars.
Iraqis' lifes are not less worthy than americans' babies.

They sure are when they indiscriminately kill other people like Sadaam or Hitler.

 

[ayani]

They sure are when they indiscriminately kill other people like Sadaam or Hitler.

these are two men out of populations of millions. WWII and this second Gulf War are two very different situations. we had lots of support to enter the former and fight, next to none to enter the latter. the latter we ultimately decided to enter based on horribly faulty intelligence and with the opposition of most of the world. the war may have turned into an effort to "liberate Iraqis", but remember the inital rhetoric of "weapons of mass destruction" and "nukes", neither of which we found.

 

[johnnys4life]

Lukas, I am saying that just because you are against war, doesn't mean you believe that voting for a particular president is going to stop it, it wouldn't stop either way, I don't believe for one second that Kerry would've stopped it, or even that he could've. However I do believe that abortion can at least be restricted to the first trimester, and that would never happen under Kerry.

I'm not saying that I'm for or against this war, I haven't made up my mind about that. I think war should be avoided at all costs, but we know that it will always occur. However there are far less people being killed in the war than are being killed by abortion. Even late term abortions toll 10,000 lives every year. The war has taken less than that, and not all of them innocent!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

these are two men out of populations of millions. WWII and this second Gulf War are two very different situations. we had lots of support to enter the former and fight, next to none to enter the latter. the latter we ultimately decided to enter based on horribly faulty intelligence and with the opposition of most of the world. the war may have turned into an effort to "liberate Iraqis", but remember the inital rhetoric of "weapons of mass destruction" and "nukes", neither of which we found.

Yes, and both of these men controlled entire nations of people who carried out terrible crimes against humanity and had to be stopped.

 

[ayani]

Yes, and both of these men controlled entire nations of people who carried out terrible crimes against humanity and had to be stopped.

we had a chance to stop Saddaam in the first Gulf War. we had the support of other countries and a list of crimes over Saddaam's head. but remember, this second war was entered into not because of Saddaam's "war crimes", but based on faulty information regarding weapons and nukes. that was all the rhetoric was about from the get go. when we started realizing that the chance of finding weapons was looking slim, Bush changed our tune to primarily freeing the Iraqi people from Saddaam. but Baghdad is still burning. women are obliged to veil themselves or risk rape or beatings. people are getting abducted and killed all over the place. remember our initial promises to the Iraqi people? we promised a quick war with few casulaties and a rapid spread of democracy in a liberated Iraq. look at what they (and we) got in reality.

 

[LUKAS]

Whoa. Okay, lets talk about the pro's and cons here. We went to fight for justice. Thats good, not bad. Secondly, we got rid of some really bad people, thats good, not bad. If we did kill a few innocent people thats bad not good. We'd defeated the bad people who would have killed the innocent people we kille plus hundreds more, thats good, not bad. We got Sadam Hussein, who ahd killed tons of people and would have killed tons more if we hadn't stopped him, thats good, not bad. Because of us, innocent people are now able to live much better lives, thats good, not bad. innocent people might have been hurt or killed by terrorists, thats bad, not good. We are out to eliminate terrorists, thats good, not bad.

GET MY POINT?

P.S. Bush aint a terrible prez, because he made a few bad decisions. If you want a prez to complain about, try Nixon or Reagan.

Let me tell ya something, Jimbob. I'm from Argentina, do you know where it is? sure you don't. it's in south america. in the mid 70's this country went thru a very bad time, we had a coup d'etat carried by the army. it was terrible, a lot of people were killed, abducted and tortured. "what's it have to do?" you may ask. well, those militaries were trained in the US in a plan to stop a possible communist outbreak in the region. all over south america, there were coups and the US did nothing to stop'em. they just didn't care. why? because we have no oil, they have nothing they care about here.
don't be so straight minded, don't buy everything they sell to you, try to be wiser. nobody really cared about the people of Iraq. remember that at first, Bush said they had to invade Iraq because of the W.M.D., where the heck are they now??? why didn't the army forces leave when they didn't find'em? why companies like haliburton are still there, getting money from the Iraqi's oil???
don't be that innocent.
LUKAS
ps: sorry if I sounded too , it's just that I can't figure out how some people can think that way.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

we had a chance to stop Saddaam in the first Gulf War. we had the support of other countries and a list of crimes over Saddaam's head. but remember, this second war was entered into not because of Saddaam's "war crimes", but based on faulty information regarding weapons and nukes. that was all the rhetoric was about from the get go. when we started realizing that the chance of finding weapons was looking slim, Bush changed our tune to primarily freeing the Iraqi people from Saddaam. but Baghdad is still burning. women are obliged to veil themselves or risk rape or beatings. people are getting abducted and killed all over the place. remember our initial promises to the Iraqi people? we promised a quick war with few casulaties and a rapid spread of democracy in a liberated Iraq. look at what they (and we) got in reality.

I am opposed to the idea of pre-imptive war, and the premise of WMDs in Iraq bordered on lunacy and now with the current intelligence, it was lunacy. I thought that you as a Quaker were against all wars...