Do we have free will?

[Terrywoodenpic]

First, the bible would argue this. Secondly, logic would argue this "If there be a God (at least worth worshipping) then He must be in complete control of His creation.

Thats rather poor logic. God has given free will, we did not take it.
We should not put limits on God.

 

[michel]

First, the bible would argue this. Secondly, logic would argue this "If there be a God (at least worth worshipping) then He must be in complete control of His creation.

I agree with Terrywoodenpic, except that I make the point that your 'logic' is totally flawed;
"Secondly, logic would argue this "If there be a God (at least worth worshipping) then He must be in complete control of His creation."

That is not logic, it is a baseless, unsubstatiated opinion.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Thats rather poor logic. God has given free will, we did not take it.
We should not put limits on God.

People who say God doesn't have all power are the one who limit God . . . I am argueing for God's exaustive power over His creation.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

That is not logic, it is a baseless, unsubstatiated opinion.

The Bible in manifold ways portrays God as Sovreign . . . this is not just opinion.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

People who say God doesn't have all power are the one who limit God . . . I am argueing for God's exaustive power over His creation.

God does not run his creation like a train set. He could. But he has Given us Jesus and his example. And the free will to Follow him or not.

We are not Glove puppets.-

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Amen! truly I say to yo:Gather in my name. I am with you

 

[Scuba Pete]

Ah grasshopper...

True power not seen in micro-management!

True power seen in how you give it away!

God believes not in the concept of setting something free, and if it not return back, hunt it down and KILL it he does. Quite the opposite. He lets both you and I decide if we want to go to hell or to heaven. No tricks. No catches. Just love.

 

[michel]

Ah grasshopper...

True power not seen in micro-management!

True power seen in how you give it away!

God believes not in the concept of setting something free, and if it not return back, hunt it down and KILL it he does. Quite the opposite. He lets both you and I decide if we want to go to hell or to heaven. No tricks. No catches. Just love.

I'm not sure about Heaven and hell , but I agree entirely with the 'Just Love'.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

He could. But he has Given us Jesus and his example. And the free will to Follow him or not.

We are not Glove puppets.-

Prove it

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Could you back this up with scripture, or is it what someone told you the bible meant?

Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21 are my proof texts

 

[Scuba Pete]

Prove what?

He didn't give us Jesus?

Or Jesus wasn't an example?

You're gonna have to figure out THOSE questions on your own.

How about being a bit more specific with your "proof texts".

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21 are my proof texts

Ok, let's see, I know those verses. And what they say is:
1)God gave man dominion over the Earth, over every living thing.
2)God is 'IN' everything. Not in control of everything. God is 'IN' each of us, and each of us (as one) IS in control of everything.

 

[capthowdy]

Well I'm suprised this thread as gone on as long as it has, I will explain certain views and try to narrow down what I believe free will is..... Free will is an ability to select a course of action to fulfill some means of desire. However some choices we make are out of necessity, not freely. Freedom enters the picture when we consider various means to these ends. Considering that we do have free will though the options may be limited by outside influence, the means, the ingenuity are acts of free will.......in short the conclusion we come to may be controlled but the path is not. I believe in free will...

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Ok, let's see, I know those verses. And what they say is:
1)God gave man dominion over the Earth, over every living thing.
2)God is 'IN' everything. Not in control of everything. God is 'IN' each of us, and each of us (as one) IS in control of everything.

___________________________

Let's render the texts plainly (by the way I meant the whole of scripture not just Gen & Rev) . . . but have it your way . . . God said it and it creation came into being . . . God will declare by His word when history will end . . . and this is without dispute.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

Well I'm suprised this thread as gone on as long as it has, I will explain certain views and try to narrow down what I believe free will is..... Free will is an ability to select a course of action to fulfill some means of desire. However some choices we make are out of necessity, not freely. Freedom enters the picture when we consider various means to these ends. Considering that we do have free will though the options may be limited by outside influence, the means, the ingenuity are acts of free will.......in short the conclusion we come to may be controlled but the path is not. I believe in free will...

Perhaps this issue can be a new thread for God's sovreighnty over man's sovreignty?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Let's render the texts plainly (by the way I meant the whole of scripture not just Gen & Rev) . . . but have it your way . . . God said it and it creation came into being . . . God will declare by His word when history will end . . . and this is without dispute.

Yes, I know what you meant. And I have read all books of the Bible, and studied most of them. KJV that is.
Yes, God spoke us into existance, but then he handed it over to us. History will end, but we will not. There will be a new Heaven, and a New Earth, and even those in Hell, will still exist.

And we do not exist to be obiediant to God. We exist to be God's children, and to love him as he loves us. God does not love us, like a master loves his dog. God loves us like a groom loves his bride, and like a parent loves his children. Children who will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Ones who show responsibility, will be able to join in 'running the family business', ones who do not show responsibility, will be sent to 'time out'.

 

[capthowdy]

When did this become about god's love?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

When did this become about god's love?

Read back a bit more. It was suggested that we did not have free will, because we were bound by God's will, I say God does not control us, he loves us, and gave us free will.

 

[capthowdy]

Oh I've read all of it, and I must say this thread is on the brink of becoming bible study and scripture debate.....I don't mind the quoting of scripture as long as it pertains to the topic. Let's just not get into who's read what or who knows the bible best.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Oh I've read all of it, and I must say this thread is on the brink of becoming bible study and scripture debate.....I don't mind the quoting of scripture as long as it pertains to the topic. Let's just not get into who's read what or who knows the bible best.

mmmm, a thread in religious debates, about whether or not we have free will. Yes, I am in the right spot, are you?

 

[Scuba Pete]

It's almost like it's a religious debate or something!