Do people who choose to take their life go to hell?

[FFH]

I remember encouraging a wayword co-worker to the point in which he changed his life, from that of a person with little or no self worth to that of a succesful business owner..

I watched him go from nothing to paying a mortgage of over 4,000 dollars a month on a brand new house, not including his 5 other modest houses he rented out...

Now he is a complete wreck again... I can't even be around him...

You build them up and then they get too big of a head and start bossing and demeaning others...

I see it happen all the time...

People need to be built up, but then at a certain point one needs to stop and let things take a more natural course...

In other words build people up, but not too much because most will get a big head and become the problem (an out of control individual), instead of being a victim of an out of control individual...

It's ironic, but I see it happen all the time...

You build people up and then they become the "terrorizer" the exact opposite of what they were before...

They are "terrorized" by a certain individual or individuals and then they are built up by someone else who sees them spiraling down and then they become the "terrorizer".

Harsh word to use but it's a subtle terror which can become mentally overwhelming and cause a person to lose all sense of self worth and become withdrawn to an extreme degree unless someone gives them a hand of love and lifts them up...

Just remember not to lift them up too much...and some will take advantage of that and pervert it in certain ways and then you will become the victim...

Lift them up and then get out of the way...

 

[neves]

Im curious........

Okay starting with the Quran...

Sura An-Nisa (Chapter 4) (Note: Not whole sura, three line before and after relative verse)

"26. Allah doth wish to make clear to you and to show you the ordinances of those before you; and (He doth wish to) turn to you (In Mercy): And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. 27. Allah doth wish to Turn to you, but the wish of those who follow their lusts is that ye should turn away (from Him),- far, far away. 28. Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh). 29. O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful! 30. If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah. 31. If ye (but) eschew the most heinous of the things which ye are forbidden to do, We shall expel out of you all the evil in you, and admit you to a gate of great honour. 32. And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things."

This supports the Hadith...

Hadith - Bukhari 2:445, Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak

"The Prophet (saaw )said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #1613, Narrated Jabin ibn Abdullah [Ahmad transmitted it.]

"Allah's Messenger (saw) said, "Do not wish for death, for the terror of the place whence one looks down is severe. It is part of a man's happiness that his life should be long and Allah Who is Great and Glorious, should supply him with repentance."

Hadith - Muslim #6485

"Hammam b. Munabbih said: Abu Huraira narrated to us ahadith from Allah's Messenger (saaw) and out of these one is that Allah's Messenger (saaw) said: none amongst you should make a request for death, and do not call for it before it comes, for when any of you dies, he ceases (to do good) deeds and the life of a believer is not pronlonged but for goodness."

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I know I'm jumping in here rather late, but...

I think people who commit suicide go to Hell. In essence, they have murdered themselves. Murder is a sin. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[SonOfNun]

What were really asking here is if a person can lose their salvation correct?

 

[Dream Angel]

Okay starting with the Quran...

Sura An-Nisa (Chapter 4) (Note: Not whole sura, three line before and after relative verse)

"26. Allah doth wish to make clear to you and to show you the ordinances of those before you; and (He doth wish to) turn to you (In Mercy): And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. 27. Allah doth wish to Turn to you, but the wish of those who follow their lusts is that ye should turn away (from Him),- far, far away. 28. Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh). 29. O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful! 30. If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah. 31. If ye (but) eschew the most heinous of the things which ye are forbidden to do, We shall expel out of you all the evil in you, and admit you to a gate of great honour. 32. And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things."

This supports the Hadith...

Hadith - Bukhari 2:445, Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak

"The Prophet (saaw )said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."

Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #1613, Narrated Jabin ibn Abdullah [Ahmad transmitted it.]

"Allah's Messenger (saw) said, "Do not wish for death, for the terror of the place whence one looks down is severe. It is part of a man's happiness that his life should be long and Allah Who is Great and Glorious, should supply him with repentance."

Hadith - Muslim #6485

"Hammam b. Munabbih said: Abu Huraira narrated to us ahadith from Allah's Messenger (saaw) and out of these one is that Allah's Messenger (saaw) said: none amongst you should make a request for death, and do not call for it before it comes, for when any of you dies, he ceases (to do good) deeds and the life of a believer is not pronlonged but for goodness."

Thanks for the info!

 

[SonOfNun]

Killing yourself is a sin, however remember it is JUST a sin. All sin is equal in God's eyes. A person who killed him/her self will go to heaven if they are indeed saved.

 

[Dream Angel]

What were really asking here is if a person can lose their salvation correct?

No I am asking if you think people go to hell if yes a) for eternity b) not for eternity - I think thats prob the bit your getting at?

 

[summia]

Suicide within Islam:

"Committing suicide is a grave sin. Many scholars view a person who has committed suicide as someone who has turned his back on Islam altogether." Muslims regard God to be the creator of life. Thus, only God has the right to end life. A manual of Sharia (Islamic law) in the tradition of Imam Shafi'i is called Reliance of the Traveler. It lists suicide as among the "enormities" of all sin:
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Do not kill yourselves, for Allah is compassionate towards you. Whoever does so, in transgression and wrongfully, We shall roast in a fire, and that is an easy matter for Allah." (an-Nisaa 4:29-30) [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak, The Prophet said, "...whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: 'My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him.' " (Sahih Bukhari 2.445) [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire." (Sahih Bukhari 2.446). [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]However, there is a unique category of suicide called "self-martyrdom" which applied in a narrow range of circumstances in combat, and which is believed to guarantee the believer immediate entry into Paradise. Before the 1983 suicide attack in Beirut, Lebanon, only very a few of the most radical Fundamentalist clerics judged kamikaze-type acts to be deeds of "self-martyrdom." After Beruit incident, "an intense debate ensued over religious law, some clerics ruling in favor of the tactic and many against." [/FONT]

 

[dolphinboy]

I remember encouraging a wayword co-worker to the point in which he changed his life, from that of a person with little or no self worth to that of a succesful business owner..

I watched him go from nothing to paying a mortgage of over 4,000 dollars a month on a brand new house, not including his 5 other modest houses he rented out...

Now he is a complete wreck again... I can't even be around him...

You build them up and then they get too big of a head and start bossing and demeaning others...

I see it happen all the time...

People need to be built up, but then at a certain point one needs to stop and let things take a more natural course...

In other words build people up, but not too much because most will get a big head and become the problem (an out of control individual), instead of being a victim of an out of control individual...

It's ironic, but I see it happen all the time...

You build people up and then they become the "terrorizer" the exact opposite of what they were before...

They are "terrorized" by a certain individual or individuals and then they are built up by someone else who sees them spiraling down and then they become the "terrorizer".

Harsh word to use but it's a subtle terror which can become mentally overwhelming and cause a person to lose all sense of self worth and become withdrawn to an extreme degree unless someone gives them a hand of love and lifts them up...

Just remember not to lift them up too much...and some will take advantage of that and pervert it in certain ways and then you will become the victim...

Lift them up and then get out of the way...

thats just someone who is ignorant, in need of a self awareness lesson. They have forgotten where they have come from.

An intersting question for you, ( if this is off topic then i appolgise ) :

A couple of years back i was surfing in Cornwall, Pretty messy day with small waves but a massive under-current running through the bay. I noticed 3 people playing in the surf out of their depth, but having a good time. They had 1 bogie board between them and were taking turns. Due to the conditions there wer'nt many surfers out , just me and a proper body-boarder. As allways when im out there you keep a general look out just to be nosey hehe. About an hour of paddling for waves i was getting tired and was waiting for my last wave to come in, and then i heard HELP! , i looked over and saw one of the 3 peeps splashing around, I thought ahh there all messing about still , (silly me ! ), then i herd it again, HELP!. I looked over and realised all 3 were there 2 on their bogie board and one in the water, but he wasn't alone , the proper body-boarder was trying to support him above water. Then it became apparent they were in serious trouble. Cut a long story short adrenelin kicked in and while praying the whole time for God to protect us I managed to get them saftley back to shore. Now my question , you prolly guessed , This guy had no clue whats so ever of the dangers of the sea on the North coast of Cornwall and yet he still went in anyway!!
I regard this as being ignorant, ( even though he was a nice guy and learnt alot from the experience ), but , if there were no surfers out that day and he had gone in and drowned through his ignorance , would you class that as suicide or just a tragic death ?

sorry for the long- winded story

I'm not a through and through christian, i grew up through the church but i am a free thinker and want to discover things for myself, so i think for me if some-one dies through their own ignorance they asked for it, but i dont think they deserve Hell for doing so.

Your thoughts?

db

 

[Dream Angel]

thats just someone who is ignorant, in need of a self awareness lesson. They have forgotten where they have come from.

An intersting question for you, ( if this is off topic then i appolgise ) :

A couple of years back i was surfing in Cornwall, Pretty messy day with small waves but a massive under-current running through the bay. I noticed 3 people playing in the surf out of their depth, but having a good time. They had 1 bogie board between them and were taking turns. Due to the conditions there wer'nt many surfers out , just me and a proper body-boarder. As allways when im out there you keep a general look out just to be nosey hehe. About an hour of paddling for waves i was getting tired and was waiting for my last wave to come in, and then i heard HELP! , i looked over and saw one of the 3 peeps splashing around, I thought ahh there all messing about still , (silly me ! ), then i herd it again, HELP!. I looked over and realised all 3 were there 2 on their bogie board and one in the water, but he wasn't alone , the proper body-boarder was trying to support him above water. Then it became apparent they were in serious trouble. Cut a long story short adrenelin kicked in and while praying the whole time for God to protect us I managed to get them saftley back to shore. Now my question , you prolly guessed , This guy had no clue whats so ever of the dangers of the sea on the North coast of Cornwall and yet he still went in anyway!!
I regard this as being ignorant, ( even though he was a nice guy and learnt alot from the experience ), but , if there were no surfers out that day and he had gone in and drowned through his ignorance , would you class that as suicide or just a tragic death ?

sorry for the long- winded story

I'm not a through and through christian, i grew up through the church but i am a free thinker and want to discover things for myself, so i think for me if some-one dies through their own ignorance they asked for it, but i dont think they deserve Hell for doing so.

Your thoughts?

db

Technically thats not suicide! as he wasnt planning on dieing and didnt want to die. He may have called for help before he entered the water... I say good on him.... he may have been experienced in those conditions maybe and know how to get out the water? Isnt that the one where you have to walk sideways out not in a straightline? am I thinking of the right thing? He certainly wouldnt go to hell in my opinion!

I was on about the suicide where people want to die as they think their world is ending, they are depresed, they have a terminal illness etc etc

 

[JayHawes]

Only God knows. Jesus is the judge and he will decide whether or not someone goes to heaven based on their knowledge of him. If somone commited suicide, hopefully, they knew about Jesus, and accepted him, although if they did they probably wouldn't have commited suicide, but i am not all-knowing. I cannot judge anyone's heart.

 

[dolphinboy]

Technically thats not suicide! as he wasnt planning on dieing and didnt want to die. He may have called for help before he entered the water... I say good on him.... he may have been experienced in those conditions maybe and know how to get out the water? Isnt that the one where you have to walk sideways out not in a straightline? am I thinking of the right thing? He certainly wouldnt go to hell in my opinion!

I was on about the suicide where people want to die as they think their world is ending, they are depresed, they have a terminal illness etc etc

If some-one is at rock bottom and they think the only way out is to die , which happens alot i'm sad to say, then why not call out for help. If they do not know any-one, have no friends family, surely suicide is the last resort. Most religions on the whole have good intentions and would gladly offer to help guide someone, and try to make them see there is more to life. If not and the worst happens , like some have said , you can only hope that God forgives, and judges on an individual basis. Though only God can answer that one

A sin is a sin there is no grading scale as to which is worse, that is my understanding, i don't know if other bibles say different. We all sin, but God forgives our sins, right? If suicide is a sin then i see no reason why it wouldn't be forgiven. If it is not a sin what would it be classed as in God's eyes and what is the factor for you going to hell? Not accepting you sinned?

db

 

[Super Universe]

Souls are eternal God energy, God does not dispose of this as an empty bag tossed in the trash can.

Suicides are not always a tragedy. Some say that suicides are a permanent solution to a temporary problem but some people are in constant, unending, and unforgiving circumstances.

Try not to put their decision on how they chose to end their lives foremost over the life they lived.

 

[uumckk16]

Since I do not believe in Hell, I have to answer this hypothetically. If Hell existed, I do not believe God would send anyone there solely because they committed suicide. I think suicide is a tragic thing and God would take into account why they committed suicide. It makes no sense to me that God would punish someone for being desperate to escape a situation that was obviously horrible - "So you didn't like that life, eh? Well you just wait to see what awful tortures I have in store for you now!" <- I'm not saying that's how people who believe this view it - but it's how I see it and thus I cannot reconcile it with my view of God.