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do I have to believe in reincarnation as a Taoist??
- Thread starter DanielR
- Start date
Philosophical Taoism doesn't teach reincarnation or rebirth. I'm not sure about all the schools of Religious Taoism. The belief is probably most prevalent in syncretic views mixed with Buddhism however. The closest thing in the philosophy would be an emphasis on recycling through natural cycles.
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
I second Straw Dog, there is some syncretism due to the mixing of schools and philosophies in China, but as far as philosophical Taoism strictly goes, its not really an idea or concept that's emphasized. Even if it were, given the nature of the philosophy, believing in something is of least concern, IMO, so I wouldn't worry about it.
oh here I've found it
"Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point. Existence without limitation is space. Continuity without a starting point is time. There is birth, there is death, there is issuing forth, there is entering in. That through which one passes in and out without seeing its form, that is the Portal of God"
Some say this is evidence that Zhuang ZI teaches reincarnation?
"Birth is not a beginning; death is not an end. There is existence without limitation; there is continuity without a starting point. Existence without limitation is space. Continuity without a starting point is time. There is birth, there is death, there is issuing forth, there is entering in. That through which one passes in and out without seeing its form, that is the Portal of God"
Some say this is evidence that Zhuang ZI teaches reincarnation?
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
So what do you think?
His collected works are not vast, why not get a copy; he is central to philosophical Daoism. It is a way, a path...not a required list of things to sign up to.
His collected works are not vast, why not get a copy; he is central to philosophical Daoism. It is a way, a path...not a required list of things to sign up to.
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
To me, it seems the matter isn't really strictly about a doctrine of reincarnation but rather a view of how things work. Ebb and flow, no concrete states, that sort of thing.
bulmabriefs144
Member
I had a link to a belief website, but I'm NOOB so I can't post such things.
Short answer, no. Longer answer, maybe. Taoism has a tendency to pick up other religions and weave them in. It didn't even have a real view of the afterlife, until Buddhism and Christianity showed up. Hinduism isn't that big in China from what I understand. Again, I have a link (this time from wiki, called Hinduism in China). Taoism grew out of several ancestor worship cults, and then formed from stuff like belief in Five Elements or Eight Trigrams, and various other teachings, shifting at various stages from religious to philosophic Taoism. It probably started out alot like Shintoism, which itself took a number of influences from other sources (largely Korean).
Short answer, no. Longer answer, maybe. Taoism has a tendency to pick up other religions and weave them in. It didn't even have a real view of the afterlife, until Buddhism and Christianity showed up. Hinduism isn't that big in China from what I understand. Again, I have a link (this time from wiki, called Hinduism in China). Taoism grew out of several ancestor worship cults, and then formed from stuff like belief in Five Elements or Eight Trigrams, and various other teachings, shifting at various stages from religious to philosophic Taoism. It probably started out alot like Shintoism, which itself took a number of influences from other sources (largely Korean).
Does Taoism explain why for example I was born into this (my) body and not let's say 'yours'?? Is everything created spontaneously in (philosophical) Taoism without any particular purpose? Am I just existing because of chance?? Does that make sense
Hmm... I would say that there isn't one grand purpose to apply to everything in existence. It just is, but that's what makes it liberating. You don't have to fulfill some grand cosmic purpose in order for your life to be meaningful. There can be individual purposes applied within the relative circumstances of your own experiences.
You weren't born into that body. You are your body. "You" are the collective manifestation of an entire microcosm. Did it come about by chance? Sort of, but rather it's the accumulation of a myriad of natural processes that happened to result in the particular form known as "you". I wouldn't call it just random chance, though. The elements that constitute your form were once used to constitute other living and non-living things. Nature tends towards diversity and novelty, rather than monoculture, so you exist because you're an unique unfolding of nature that hasn't existed yet.
Don't mention it. I suppose anything is possible, though. Reincarnation just isn't a part of philosophical Taoism as far as I understand it, although it can be incorporated into it through meshing with other traditions, like Hinduism. I don't believe that Buddhism initially taught reincarnation either but rather rebirth, which is different. My point is that Taoism is highly adaptable to widely different traditions due to its emphasis on simplicity, etc.
I wouldn't worry about it. If "you" did come back, then it would be someone else. It wouldn't really be "you" as you are now. It would be a new person entirely with new memories and new experiences. I don't think the doctrine of reincarnation has much internal logic anyway other than as a convenient way for explaining suffering in the world (your karma is attacking you!).
you know I have a problem with reincarnation because according to it, we all should be 'liberated' by now anyway if we assume that time goes infinitely backwards, there had to be a point in time when we all got liberated but we are still here, it just doesn't make sense to me somehow
lol I found it a bit of a strange mix, personally: some really serious practitioners mixed with some troublemaking rascals
I mostly lurk and read on there. I have to say though, there is some great information on there and I've still only just scratched the surface.
I don't really know of any other Taoist forums which are that active.