Difference between Persian, Tajik, Pashtun and Baloch?

[ronki23]

I read that Afganistan is a 'Persian' country and their language is a dialect of Farsi? Is this true? Then why are they Sunni and not Shia?

More importantly, is the Balochistan or Pashtunistan movement bigger in Pakistan as I hear West Pakistanis are Pashtun like the Afghans but Balochistan encompasses both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Why do Afghans understand Hindi / Urdu and why are Hindi/ Urdu separate languages if they are mutually intelligible?

 

[MD]

Persians are an ethnicity, and fall under Iranic peoples. Same with Afghans, Kurds, Tajiks, Baloch, Pashtuns, etc. Iran became Shia due to the Safavids, who consolidated their power in Iran. There were Sunni kings in Afghanistan who fought against Safavid expansion.

Balochistan and Pashtunistan are two different movements. Balochis are in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. Pashtuns are in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Afghans understand Urdu due to the fact that Urdu has a lot of Farsi in it, so Tajiks and other Farsi speaking afghans will understand Urdu to some extent. Also Bollywood and the fact that the major economic regions where most Afghans work in are Pakistan and India. It's kind of similar to how many poor Mexicans speak some English, because many undocumented workers learn it and bring some of that knowledge back. Many undocumented Afghan workers reside in Pakistan.

Hindi and Urdu are two separate languages because when you get into more complicated vocabulary they both diverge tremendously. Urdu has a lot of farsi and turkish loan words, while Hindi has sanskrit loan words. Although they all fall under indo european languages, they're still different. However that being said on a colloquial level Hindi and Urdu are almost identical, and thus I wouldn't call them two completely separate languages. Maybe more akin to Italian and Spanish, which are also very similar. Bollywood has also combined Hindi and Urdu, thereby teaching regular Indians Urdu and regular Pakistanis Hindi.

 

[Kirran]

To add, there are several languages spoken in Afghanistan, including Dari (which is essentially a set of varieties of Farsi), Tajik (which is too), Pashtun and Uzbek. Dari is spoken by groups such as the Hazara, as well as fair numbers of the dominant Pashtun ethnicity.

 

[ronki23]

To add, there are several languages spoken in Afghanistan, including Dari (which is essentially a set of varieties of Farsi), Tajik (which is too), Pashtun and Uzbek. Dari is spoken by groups such as the Hazara, as well as fair numbers of the dominant Pashtun ethnicity.

Which language is similar to Hindi / spoken most widely in Afghanistan? I'm very surprised Afghanistan was never part of the Commonwealth as culturally from face value they look very akin to Pakistanis/ Indians

 

[ronki23]

Persians are an ethnicity, and fall under Iranic peoples. Same with Afghans, Kurds, Tajiks, Baloch, Pashtuns, etc. Iran became Shia due to the Safavids, who consolidated their power in Iran. There were Sunni kings in Afghanistan who fought against Safavid expansion.

Balochistan and Pashtunistan are two different movements. Balochis are in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. Pashtuns are in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Afghans understand Urdu due to the fact that Urdu has a lot of Farsi in it, so Tajiks and other Farsi speaking afghans will understand Urdu to some extent. Also Bollywood and the fact that the major economic regions where most Afghans work in are Pakistan and India. It's kind of similar to how many poor Mexicans speak some English, because many undocumented workers learn it and bring some of that knowledge back. Many undocumented Afghan workers reside in Pakistan.

Hindi and Urdu are two separate languages because when you get into more complicated vocabulary they both diverge tremendously. Urdu has a lot of farsi and turkish loan words, while Hindi has sanskrit loan words. Although they all fall under indo european languages, they're still different. However that being said on a colloquial level Hindi and Urdu are almost identical, and thus I wouldn't call them two completely separate languages. Maybe more akin to Italian and Spanish, which are also very similar. Bollywood has also combined Hindi and Urdu, thereby teaching regular Indians Urdu and regular Pakistanis Hindi.

So Persians and Afghans are both types of Iranic people. So why wasn't Iran called Persia after the Empires collapsed?

I don't understand the difference between the Balochistan and Pashtunistan movements but I hear the former is far more prominent. Aren't Pakistanis Pashtun?

What was the Northern Alliance that fights the Taliban? Weren't they Tajik? Did the Northern Alliance want a unified Afghanistan?

 

[Kirran]

Which language is similar to Hindi / spoken most widely in Afghanistan? I'm very surprised Afghanistan was never part of the Commonwealth as culturally from face value they look very akin to Pakistanis/ Indians

None, really. Hindi/Urdu are different formalised registers of the same language, but neither is prominent in its own right in Afghanistan, except for people speaking Urdu cos of trade connections.

I don't understand the difference between the Balochistan and Pashtunistan movements but I hear the former is far more prominent. Aren't Pakistanis Pashtun?

What was the Northern Alliance that fights the Taliban? Weren't they Tajik? Did the Northern Alliance want a unified Afghanistan?

Balochistan is a nationalist movement for Baluch people (found in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran) and Pashtunistan is a nationalist movement for Pashtuns (dominant ethnicity in Afghanistan at around 42%, second-biggest in Pakistan at around 15%, mostly in the northwest).

The Northern Alliance was originally mostly Tajik but essentially became a rallying group for those who had supported the pre-Taliban government and wanted to end the Taliban.

 

[ronki23]

None, really. Hindi/Urdu are different formalised registers of the same language, but neither is prominent in its own right in Afghanistan, except for people speaking Urdu cos of trade connections.



Balochistan is a nationalist movement for Baluch people (found in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran) and Pashtunistan is a nationalist movement for Pashtuns (dominant ethnicity in Afghanistan at around 42%, second-biggest in Pakistan at around 15%, mostly in the northwest).

The Northern Alliance was originally mostly Tajik but essentially became a rallying group for those who had supported the pre-Taliban government and wanted to end the Taliban.

Aren't the majority of Afghans Pashtun?

How feasible would both an independent Balochistan and Pashtunistan be? Would they be happy living side by side because both Balochistan and Pashtunistan allegedly hate the Punjabis in Pakistan. Pakistan is increasingly unstable; I'm surprised they even managed to get a woman prime minister in a Muslim country

 

[Kirran]

Aren't the majority of Afghans Pashtun?

How feasible would both an independent Balochistan and Pashtunistan be? Would they be happy living side by side because both Balochistan and Pashtunistan allegedly hate the Punjabis in Pakistan. Pakistan is increasingly unstable; I'm surprised they even managed to get a woman prime minister in a Muslim country

No - 42%. Plurality.

Feasible, I guess, yeah. But unlikely and not advisable IMO.

As for a woman PM, there are several Muslim-majority countries where women are regularly heads of government and state.

 

[ronki23]

No - 42%. Plurality.

Feasible, I guess, yeah. But unlikely and not advisable IMO.

As for a woman PM, there are several Muslim-majority countries where women are regularly heads of government and state.

Persians are an ethnicity, and fall under Iranic peoples. Same with Afghans, Kurds, Tajiks, Baloch, Pashtuns, etc. Iran became Shia due to the Safavids, who consolidated their power in Iran. There were Sunni kings in Afghanistan who fought against Safavid expansion.

Balochistan and Pashtunistan are two different movements. Balochis are in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. Pashtuns are in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Afghans understand Urdu due to the fact that Urdu has a lot of Farsi in it, so Tajiks and other Farsi speaking afghans will understand Urdu to some extent. Also Bollywood and the fact that the major economic regions where most Afghans work in are Pakistan and India. It's kind of similar to how many poor Mexicans speak some English, because many undocumented workers learn it and bring some of that knowledge back. Many undocumented Afghan workers reside in Pakistan.

Hindi and Urdu are two separate languages because when you get into more complicated vocabulary they both diverge tremendously. Urdu has a lot of farsi and turkish loan words, while Hindi has sanskrit loan words. Although they all fall under indo european languages, they're still different. However that being said on a colloquial level Hindi and Urdu are almost identical, and thus I wouldn't call them two completely separate languages. Maybe more akin to Italian and Spanish, which are also very similar. Bollywood has also combined Hindi and Urdu, thereby teaching regular Indians Urdu and regular Pakistanis Hindi.

Who are the majority in Afganistan? How did the Taliban manage to take control if so many opposed their rule?

So if Persians, Afghans, Kurds, Tajik, Pashtun and Baloch are Iranic people, why was Iran renamed to Iran when calling it Persia made more sense?

And why do these people have different labels and different languages as Arab countries all speak Arabic?

I'm surprised the Kurds are a type of Iranic people as several countries are battling Kurdish independence movements. I am a supporter of a Kurdish independent state although I don't know WHICH countries it should come from- probably part of Iraq and part of Turkey

Finally, do people from Balochistan and Pashtunistan movements get along with each other or do they both claim land from the other? I assume they both hate the Punjabis

 

[ronki23]

@Kirran @MD

Hey can you please reply to my above post (post 9)? I'm surprised there are so many varieties of Iranic people who look different, speak different language and have different religion (Zoroastrain, Hindu,etc.) whereas the Arabs are all Muslim and speak Arabic. I'm especially surprised Kurds are Iranic?

And are Kurdistan, Balochistan and Pashtunistan all legitimate movements that 'threaten' stability. To be honest I support at least the Kurdish independence movement but I don't know much about Pakistani separatism. Do Baloch and Pashtuns get along with each other? Do they both hate the Punjabis?

 

[MD]

Who are the majority in Afganistan? How did the Taliban manage to take control if so many opposed their rule?

Majority are Pashtuns. The Taliban took control for many reasons, the CIA, the pashtuns but mostly because it became a lawless region and they were able to bring the most control quickly.

So if Persians, Afghans, Kurds, Tajik, Pashtun and Baloch are Iranic people, why was Iran renamed to Iran when calling it Persia made more sense?

Persia is what the ancient Greeks called it, Iran was called Iran for a long time before that. It is tied in with the term Aryan and was called Eran. Even in ancient Zoroastrian books there are references to Iran as eran.

And why do these people have different labels and different languages as Arab countries all speak Arabic?

They simply resisted longer against Arabian colonization and cultural imperialism.They also were under the cultural umbrella of Iran, who had it's own history of resistance and cultural preservation.

I'm surprised the Kurds are a type of Iranic people as several countries are battling Kurdish independence movements. I am a supporter of a Kurdish independent state although I don't know WHICH countries it should come from- probably part of Iraq and part of Turkey

Kurds speak a language that's indo european and far closer to Farsi than Arabic is. Although most Kurds are probably genetically closer to their Arabic and Turkish neighbors, the classification is based more on linguistic and cultural heritage.

Finally, do people from Balochistan and Pashtunistan movements get along with each other or do they both claim land from the other? I assume they both hate the Punjabis

I have no idea, I would assume they support their own movements so they would probably get along with each other. Some may or may not hate the Punjabis, they dislike the central government though.

 

[Nietzsche]

So if Persians, Afghans, Kurds, Tajik, Pashtun and Baloch are Iranic people, why was Iran renamed to Iran when calling it Persia made more sense?

Well, the 1930s were kinda weird for everyone, Persia/Iran not excluded. They wanted better relations with Nazi Germany, so they changed the name to something that is basically a cognate for "Aryan".

That is the most simple explanation. It's stupid, it's really stupid, but it's true, even though it sounds made-up as hell.

 

[Kirran]

@Kirran @MD

Hey can you please reply to my above post (post 9)? I'm surprised there are so many varieties of Iranic people who look different, speak different language and have different religion (Zoroastrain, Hindu,etc.) whereas the Arabs are all Muslim and speak Arabic. I'm especially surprised Kurds are Iranic?

And are Kurdistan, Balochistan and Pashtunistan all legitimate movements that 'threaten' stability. To be honest I support at least the Kurdish independence movement but I don't know much about Pakistani separatism. Do Baloch and Pashtuns get along with each other? Do they both hate the Punjabis?

There's no majority in Afghanistan - Pashtuns are 42%, that's the biggest group.

Sure, lots of Iranic peoples, just like there are lots of Dravidian peoples and Sinic peoples. Arabs are not all Muslim, only a majority, and not all speak Arabic - there are also the South Arabian languages, and populations who've switched language in the diaspora. Also, the dialects of Arabic are not mutually intelligible. Anyway, their common ancestry, culturally, is far more recent. You're comparing apples and oranges. Iranic peoples are a very broad category, Arabs less so.

I don't know what 'legitimate' means, that's totally subjective. I don't especially support ethnic nationalism in any case.

Do Baloch and Pashtuns get on with each other and/or hate Punjabis? There are many millions of both, their opinions vary widely.

 

[ronki23]

There's no majority in Afghanistan - Pashtuns are 42%, that's the biggest group.

Sure, lots of Iranic peoples, just like there are lots of Dravidian peoples and Sinic peoples. Arabs are not all Muslim, only a majority, and not all speak Arabic - there are also the South Arabian languages, and populations who've switched language in the diaspora. Also, the dialects of Arabic are not mutually intelligible. Anyway, their common ancestry, culturally, is far more recent. You're comparing apples and oranges. Iranic peoples are a very broad category, Arabs less so.

I don't know what 'legitimate' means, that's totally subjective. I don't especially support ethnic nationalism in any case.

Do Baloch and Pashtuns get on with each other and/or hate Punjabis? There are many millions of both, their opinions vary widely.

Majority are Pashtuns. The Taliban took control for many reasons, the CIA, the pashtuns but mostly because it became a lawless region and they were able to bring the most control quickly.



Persia is what the ancient Greeks called it, Iran was called Iran for a long time before that. It is tied in with the term Aryan and was called Eran. Even in ancient Zoroastrian books there are references to Iran as eran.



They simply resisted longer against Arabian colonization and cultural imperialism.They also were under the cultural umbrella of Iran, who had it's own history of resistance and cultural preservation.



Kurds speak a language that's indo european and far closer to Farsi than Arabic is. Although most Kurds are probably genetically closer to their Arabic and Turkish neighbors, the classification is based more on linguistic and cultural heritage.



I have no idea, I would assume they support their own movements so they would probably get along with each other. Some may or may not hate the Punjabis, they dislike the central government though.

Well, the 1930s were kinda weird for everyone, Persia/Iran not excluded. They wanted better relations with Nazi Germany, so they changed the name to something that is basically a cognate for "Aryan".

That is the most simple explanation. It's stupid, it's really stupid, but it's true, even though it sounds made-up as hell.

So if Iran means Eran which in turn means Aryan, does this mean they're related to the Aryans of India?

I was under the impression Aryans and blonde hair, blue eyed and white. This suggests Aryans are Caucasian and from Germany, Scandinavia, Austria-Hungary,etc.

I always thought the Aryans of India are brown and with black hair as they mixed with the Dravidians? But who did the Iranians mix with? Arabs? But Arabs are Semites (which surprised me when Arab countries allied with the Nazis or are responsible for anti semitism in Middle East as they're the same race)

 

[MD]

So if Iran means Eran which in turn means Aryan, does this mean they're related to the Aryans of India?

Yes

I was under the impression Aryans and blonde hair, blue eyed and white. This suggests Aryans are Caucasian and from Germany, Scandinavia, Austria-Hungary,etc.

The Aryans were most likely from the Volga basin who migrated all over Asia and Europe. They were probably white, not sure about other aspects of their phenotype

I always thought the Aryans of India are brown and with black hair as they mixed with the Dravidians? But who did the Iranians mix with? Arabs? But Arabs are Semites (which surprised me when Arab countries allied with the Nazis or are responsible for anti semitism in Middle East as they're the same race)

The term anti semitic usually applies to Jews. The Aryans mixed with Elamites, who were related to Dravidians and resided in southern Iran. Iranians and Arabs have also been mixing for millennia. Many 'Arabs' are linguistic Arabs and have their own unique mix, for example Syrians and Lebanese have European blood from the Crusades, the Egyptians have some sub saharan mix as well as Persian and Turkish mix, etc. The Middle East is really mixed, which is why religion is the main divider rather than phenotype.

 

[Kirran]

So if Iran means Eran which in turn means Aryan, does this mean they're related to the Aryans of India?

I was under the impression Aryans and blonde hair, blue eyed and white. This suggests Aryans are Caucasian and from Germany, Scandinavia, Austria-Hungary,etc.

I always thought the Aryans of India are brown and with black hair as they mixed with the Dravidians? But who did the Iranians mix with? Arabs? But Arabs are Semites (which surprised me when Arab countries allied with the Nazis or are responsible for anti semitism in Middle East as they're the same race)

Despite how the Nazis used it, Aryan is really better used as a linguistic and cultural descriptor than a racial one.

 

[Nietzsche]

I was under the impression Aryans and blonde hair, blue eyed and white. This suggests Aryans are Caucasian and from Germany, Scandinavia, Austria-Hungary,etc.

I always thought the Aryans of India are brown and with black hair as they mixed with the Dravidians? But who did the Iranians mix with? Arabs? But Arabs are Semites (which surprised me when Arab countries allied with the Nazis or are responsible for anti semitism in Middle East as they're the same race)

The Nazis were a little slow. Tolkien loved to point out how stupid the Nazi use of the term "Aryan" was given what it really means.

 

[ronki23]

Hi @MD @Kirran @Nietzsche

sorry for late reply. What is the difference between 'Caucasian' Aryan from Europe e.g. blonde hair and blue eyes, and the Iranic people? Because you hardly get Iranic people with blonde hair and blue eyes?

Also, are these Iranic languages mutually intelligible e.g. dialects of the same language or are they completely different? Same applies for 'Southern Arabic'? I was under the impression the only different Arabic was Egyptian Arabic?

I can't read or speak these languages but Urdu, Arabic and Persian have similar looking lettering? Is Persian the same as modern Farsi or is it different like Latin or Ye Olde English and modern English? Can Pashtun. Baloch and Tajiki people speak to once another???

 

[Nietzsche]

Hi @MD @Kirran @Nietzsche

sorry for late reply. What is the difference between 'Caucasian' Aryan from Europe e.g. blonde hair and blue eyes, and the Iranic people? Because you hardly get Iranic people with blonde hair and blue eyes?

The notion of the "blonde haired, blue eyed Aryan" is just more Nazi pseudo-science trash, though you will find(rarely, but possible) genuine Iranians and other such non-European Indo-Europeans with very European-looking features including blue eyes and the like.

 

[ronki23]

Another thing that interests me is the languages. I find Arabic is an ugly language when used in conversation but poetic Arabic and musical Arabic sound good. Is there a difference in classical and modern Arabic?

My father is also a big fan of Urdu even though I see no difference in conversational Urdu and Hindi.

Do Arabic, Farsi, Dari and Urdu share the same alphabet? Are any of them mutually intelligible i.e. keeping with the thread title, can an Afghan understand Farsi or can a Tajik speak Dari or can a Azeri and Baloch speak to one another? Do the Pashtuns and Tajiks of Afghanistan have the same language?

Because my Saudi Arabian friend can read a bit of Urdu and he hasn't a drop of Indian or Pakistani blood in him! I also heard South Arabians aren't Muslim and have a completely different language to Arabic!

@MD

Do Zoroastrians use Farsi in their congregations and prayers? If not, what's the language?