Death Penalty Sought For Islamic Researcher Hassan Al-Maliki

[danieldemol]

‘HassaIn October 2018, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia began its prosecution of the prominent Islamic researcher, Sheikh Hassan al-Maliki, in the Specialized Criminal Court in Riyadh, which was specially established in January 2009 to handle cases of terrorism and national security.

The official Saudi newspaper, Sabq, said on October 1, 2018, that the Specialized Criminal Court began “the trial of a religious skeptic accused of defaming the Sunnah and the hadith of the Prophet,” in reference to al-Maliki, who has consistently put forth tolerant opinions at odds with the official religious establishment, which has adopted an extremist approach.

The public prosecution, which is directly linked to the Saudi king, has leveled charges almost entirely related to Maliki’s religious views and has requested that the court execute him as a form of ta’zir punishment based on selected religious texts and extremistinterpretations,with clear contempt for his inherent right to freedom of thought and conscience guaranteed by international law...

Read more here: Death penalty sought for Islamic researcher Hassan al-Maliki on charges that his religious views contradict Mohammad bin Salman’s pledge to destroy extremism - European-Saudi Organisation for Human Rights

 

[SugarOcean]

Fatwa's have been issued for fiction writers, and for Canadian cartoonists who made fun of Muhammad.
Those are still in effect by the way.

Is this latest a surprise?

Islam translates as,submission.
Not peace!

The defendant in this case knew the risk given where he was. In short, he can't be surprised when he dies.

 

[danieldemol]

Fatwa's have been issued for fiction writers, and for Canadian cartoonists who made fun of Muhammad.
Those are still in effect by the way.

Is this latest a surprise?

Islam translates as,submission.
Not peace!

The defendant in this case knew the risk given where he was. In short, he can't be surprised when he dies.

You can’t change a broken system without criticising it. I applaud this man’s courage in speaking out at the cost of his life.
And according to my understanding he was not mocking Islam, just critiquing traditional interpretations of it.

 

[ecco]

Islam deserves to be mocked as much as Christianity, Hinduism, Scientology, Bahai et al deserve to be mocked.

 

[danieldemol]

Islam deserves to be mocked as much as Christianity, Hinduism, Scientology, Bahai et al deserve to be mocked.

As a liberal I wholeheartedly agree

 

[siti]

...he can't be surprised when he dies.

I don't suppose he will be...its the ones who believe they are going to wake up in heaven that will be surprised.

 

[SugarOcean]

I don't suppose he will be...its the ones who believe they are going to wake up in heaven that will be surprised.

Any opportunity to give a dig at Christians, huh? Don't forget, you are mortal and shall die. Worry where you shall end up. Right now you have faith it won't be what Christians assure you is awaiting your arrival. But after you're dead reality is there.
Who knows , we could all be wrong about what comes next.
If the Christian is wrong, they lived a gracious life in service to the will of Christ according to his teachings. And that at least means we lived a goodly life , even if it turns out there really is no God as we imagine it. At least while here we served our fellow people from the goodness of our good faith.
While if the atheist is wrong when they die and our God is real and all those teachings that atheist scoffed at, mocked, were true and there is a Hell, well, eternity shall be a very long time to be wrong.
Meanwhile, what should matter to that atheist isn't that they accept they need to believe in a God in order to be a good person. What should matter to an atheist who commits to introspection is this. If there is no God, what kind of person are they with whom so many share this world with? Are they someone who lives the attitude they show Christians? Mockery , scoffing at others faith, self-assured all religions are delusion?
Or are they able to be a good person without faith in a spirit so many believe exists?
So that when that atheist dies they shall be missed by those who cared for them. Rather than celebrated as no longer here to display their behaviors and by those who are relived he/she is gone.

 

[SugarOcean]

You can’t change a broken system without criticising it. I applaud this man’s courage in speaking out at the cost of his life.
And according to my understanding he was not mocking Islam, just critiquing traditional interpretations of it.

Neither your nor my understanding matter. The man is in custody in SA for his alleged offenses.

Maybe learn about Islam so as to understand why he is under arrest there.

Here's an example of Islam's "peace".
Years ago, 2007, a British teacher named Gillian Gibbons was serving in Sudan. She faced forty lashes for her "crime" against Islam. She would not have survived that.
Look it up.Her offense? Well, in part it included a teddy bear.

 

[siti]

Don't forget, you are mortal and shall die.

I'm aware.

What I'm not aware of is where I said anything about Christians...this thread is about an Islamic Court passing - or proposing to pass - a death sentence on a skeptic for being skeptical...the skeptic is unlikely to be surprised at not attaining the heavenly reward, the religious bigots that accused and sentenced him almost certainly believe they are destined to receive the heavenly reward in greater measure as a result. They are the ones who are in for a big surprise - regardless of whether you or I are wrong about life after death.

 

[SugarOcean]

Islam deserves to be mocked as much as Christianity, Hinduism, Scientology, Bahai et al deserve to be mocked.

You are clearly very young.

For sisters and brothers here.
How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked

 

[siti]

How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked

#1 make sure you understood the words before you assume that it was aimed at you or your faith. You wouldn't want to respond to 'mockery of your faith' when it was neither mockery nor about your faith - as hard as it might be for you to believe that it isn't all about you - that might make you make a mockery of yourself.

 

[SugarOcean]

#1 make sure you understood the words before you assume that it was aimed at you or your faith. You wouldn't want to respond to 'mockery of your faith' when it was neither mockery nor about your faith - as hard as it might be for you to believe that it isn't all about you - that might make you make a mockery of yourself.

Don't make the mistake of self-importance.
Be sure you read my post and to whom it was addressed. (Not you), before thinking to take me to your school.

 

[siti]

Don't make the mistake of self-importance.
Be sure you read my post and to whom it was addressed. (Not you), before thinking to take me to your school.

OK - you quoted my post (which was about the bigoted Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia and nothing to do with Christianity), accused me of having a dig at Christians (which I clearly did not) and reminded me of my mortality (of which I am already aware)...then you proceeded with diatribe about atheists (which I am not) and mockery of others' faith (which I did not do)...

So when you posted a link to advise your "brothers and sisters" about how to respond when they perceive that an atheist is mocking their religion, I felt I could help further by suggesting a first step in responding to "mockery" - make sure that's what it is first...before you go off half cocked and do yourself - and perhaps even your faith - a mischief!

I'm not going to "school" you - but you have to stop perceiving personal insults where they don't exist - someone might think you really are becoming delusional.

 

[SugarOcean]

OK - you quoted my post (which was about the bigoted Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia and nothing to do with Christianity), accused me of having a dig at Christians (which I clearly did not) and reminded me of my mortality (of which I am already aware)...then you proceeded with diatribe about atheists (which I am not) and mockery of others' faith (which I did not do)...

So when you posted a link to advise your "brothers and sisters" about how to respond when they perceive that an atheist is mocking their religion, I felt I could help further by suggesting a first step in responding to "mockery" - make sure that's what it is first...before you go off half cocked and do yourself - and perhaps even your faith - a mischief!

I'm not going to "school" you - but you have to stop perceiving personal insults where they don't exist - someone might think you really are becoming delusional.

Well, let's review the course of events that led to this silliness. Since you won't scroll up to find out you are wrong and have been since you thought to take personally what was not addressed to you in the least.
Let's begin.
Your post 11 quoted mine that was post#10 and addressed to Ecco.
↑SugarOcean
How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked
Your response: #1 make sure you understood the words before you assume that it was aimed at you or your faith. You wouldn't want to respond to 'mockery of your faith' when it was neither mockery nor about your faith - as hard as it might be for you to believe that it isn't all about you - that might make you make a mockery of yourself.


Now, unless you are also Ecco, you have no dog in that fight you've manufactured for yourself with post 11 till now.
And what you did state, before you edited and added to it, began in post 6. That was responded to by my post #7.Which then generated your response in post #9 before you edited and added beyond what was originally posted and which first read simply, "I am aware".

After that we did not exchange remarks. However, you decided to quote my response to Ecco in post #10 by excerpting the article link concerning Christian responses to mockery. Which was decidedly on point in regard to Ecco's mockery, and served as a resource for fellow Christian's here in terms of identifying mockery and suggestions on how to deal.

In other words, you're picking a fight on behalf of someone not you. And you're not entitled to presume you know the mind of that one to whom I'd addressed my remarks, while then defending your action and escalating your error.
Ecco, if you scroll up, did fully intend mockery. As they stated quite clearly: "Islam deserves to be mocked as much as Christianity, Hinduism, Scientology, Bahai et al deserve to be mocked."

You're not able to admit you jumped before you looked. Or read, as is the case.

This is the last I'll entertain your efforts. You are wrong. Unless you are also Ecco. In which case you have more than one account here. To my knowledge that's typically against most forum rules.

That is all.

 

[siti]

This is the last I'll entertain your efforts.

Up to you.

For the record - there are no rules about who may or may not respond to which comments or which posts as far as I am aware.

 

[ecco]

f the Christian is wrong, they lived a gracious life in service to the will of Christ according to his teachings. And that at least means we lived a goodly life ...

Ah, yes. The goodly Christian - the Godly Christian.
Those that were involved in the Inquisitions
Those that were involved in the witch hunts
Those that were involved in slavery

How wonderful to be goodly, Godly Christians.

 

[ecco]

RE: The atheists...

Are they someone who lives the attitude they show Christians? Mockery , scoffing at others faith, self-assured all religions are delusion?

Mostly we mock silly notions like the belief that two of all kinds of animals survived in a wooden boat for 40 days of the most horrific storms imaginable.

Mostly we mock the bluster of the ego filled holier than thou attitude of religious people of all persuasions.

Mostly we mock the notion that all religious people believe their god is the only real god.

Mostly we mock the hypocrisy of those who disbelieve all but one god but chide us for disbelieving all gods.

 

[ecco]

You are clearly very young.

Thank you for proving, once again, that the ego of the very religious knows no bounds.

For sisters and brothers here.
How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked

Shouting lies does not help your cause.

Atheists are not dedicated to fighting against something that does not exist. What we do "fight" against is very real. It is people who would force others to live by their religious views. That is a very real danger. That is the gist of this thread.

 

[SugarOcean]

RE: The atheists...


Mostly we mock silly notions like the belief that two of all kinds of animals survived in a wooden boat for 40 days of the most horrific storms imaginable.

Mostly we mock the bluster of the ego filled holier than thou attitude of religious people of all persuasions.

Mostly we mock the notion that all religious people believe their god is the only real god.

Mostly we mock the hypocrisy of those who disbelieve all but one god but chide us for disbelieving all gods.

I think it is unfortunate that you are of a mindset that lets you imagine you have a right to speak for anyone but yourself.
As if you're a spokesperson for all atheists when you use terms like, "we".

Accept your responsibility for mocking Christians and attacking something your self-identifier as atheist first claims doesn't exist!
Speak in terms of first person. That's what responsibility is. Accepting responsibility for your own words and actions. Don't think your behavior can be defended by group think terminology.

Oh, and the nonsense concerning the meme I posted, no need to shout, while sounding very familiar, is a red herring. It's a meme! You know very well meme's use capital font. Don't play ignorant just to live petty. It makes you look angry and weak.

 

[ecco]

I think it is unfortunate that you are of a mindset that lets you imagine you have a right to speak for anyone but yourself.
As if you're a spokesperson for all atheists when you use terms like, "we".

You posted this...

...while shouting:

For sisters and brothers here.
How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked

Your copied picture makes a false statement concerning atheists. Based on conversations, face to face and online with other atheists, I'm quite comfortable using the term "we" in the following:

Mostly we mock silly notions like the belief that two of all kinds of animals survived in a wooden boat for 40 days of the most horrific storms imaginable.

Mostly we mock the bluster of the ego filled holier than thou attitude of religious people of all persuasions.

Mostly we mock the notion that all religious people believe their god is the only real god.

Mostly we mock the hypocrisy of those who disbelieve all but one god but chide us for disbelieving all gods.
​

I do have differences with atheists and when I post about those things I use the term "I".

Accept your responsibility for mocking Christians and attacking something your self-identifier as atheist first claims doesn't exist!

The point is that you or some Christians believe god stuff. For example, some Christians believe their omniscient god created Adam & Eve, told them to forego knowledge and then punished them for disobeying him. I have every logical right to attack the story/belief/notion that an omniscient god did not know what his creations would do.

Pictures like you posted may play well with some of your fellow believers. To everyone else, they are just lame attempts at derision.

Speak in terms of first person. That's what responsibility is. Accepting responsibility for your own words and actions. Don't think your behavior can be defended by group think terminology.

See above.

Oh, and the nonsense concerning the meme I posted, no need to shout, while sounding very familiar, is a red herring. It's a meme! You know very well meme's use capital font. Don't play ignorant just to live petty. It makes you look angry and weak.

You are the one who shouted How to Respond When Your Faith Is Mocked.

But why does such a picture even exist? Did the creator see my posts and quickly decide to come up with a quick response? Nah. Someone did that because rational people have been mocking Christians for long before I ever existed.