DC comics related subjects.

[Me Myself]

Basically, to not keep flooding the Cartoon cartoon thread .

Kept it open to more than wonder woman talk, cause all DCU rocks

 

[Me Myself]

They already did drop the weakness where if her bracelets (modified shackles, called Bracelets of Submission originally :areyoucra) are tied together she loses her powers.

The only thing they brought back about those in the modern version, is that if she removes them, she becomes more powerful and aggressive (kind of a berserker rage mode), because she wears them to keep her power in check to keep other people safe. That's an old ability that was discontinued for a while and recently brought back.



.

My apologies for the unclear writting I am aware she no longer loses her powers wheni her bracelets go together. I mean she still has silly stuff that go along with the bondage thing like the lasso. In part I like the tool is very different from others, but I cant help to see it goofy when she uses it. Which probably I wouldnt have that problem if she wa cowgirl themed or something.

Then again by now taking out the lasso would be a mistake. I didnt know the thing about restraing hr powers on her bracelets though that does sound really cool.

Sometimes the lasso looks cool. I think when it looks really thin and extra golden like.

I do think they should consider more of an armored Greek design, which is what she sometimes wears when she is with the other Amazons. She can already take punches from Superman so the armor would only be relevant if it was magically durable or divine (whereas the full-blooded Amazons aren't nearly that strong and the armor they wear is relevant for them). The thing is, though, that even the DC Olympian gods keep themselves somewhat modernized because they interact with humans to the present day and don't perpetually stay under Greek aesthetics, so for example Apollo wears a modern suit. So they can give her a modern costume rather than a Greek armor look without it being out of place in her comic's world. In the latest redesign they were going to give her pants but then decided not to at the last minute, keeping her without pants instead. In Justice League War, they covered her cleavage. I don't care if she shows some skin but her outfit should be designed for practicality rather than sex appeal.

I think the writing of her in the comics has been pretty good in the modern age, outfit aside.

The arc where she fought Superman and killed Maxwell Lord was fairly epic. Lord gave Superman an illusion that Doomsday killed Lois Lane and that Wonder Woman was Doomsday, so Superman attacked her in a murderous rage, she fought him and sort of won, and then had to break Lord's neck to stop the spell, which angered the rest of the Justice League due to its violence. She was still being kind, though, like holding back when she injured Superman to try to beat him without killing him, and praying to the gods when she was plummeting to Earth semi-conscious at one point that she wouldn't hit anyone upon impact.

I saw her in infinite crisis and her fit against superman. I really liked that, like where she uses some tactics against his supersenses. That was a cool moment for her.

I know she doesnt need an armor of course, its a thing of flavour. It definetely would need to be magical. I dont think it should be A LOT of armor though, maybe just some armored details. Like in the picture you show the upper part border of the clevage . More than anything I wold like her seeming more greek like in her flavour.

I dont have in general problems with superheroes having unpractical outfits (lets face it, while some excuses haveeen given in comics, Batman would sitll do much better with a more iron man approach. But still, its just not the same so I prefer Batman's suit as it is, spandexish(and with the alleged ultra kevlar protection stuff xD) ) and I dont generally have problems with superheroines looking sexy and deliberately so with their outfits.

My problem is that I cant help to see that at least for my taste it doesnt fit WW. If we go by her suit being a kind of nod to the US, which I think was the original explanation, she would still need to be a bit more politically correct on it if it was for PR purposes and she wants to be taken seriously. If not,then it should be for greek accuracy (for example, having the... Kilt is it called? The thing greek soldiers have as "skirt") where she doesnt care what others think because she is wearing a pice of her land.

E thing is she is a complicated character to write, and that's why I think its hard at least for what ñi ve seen, toe depicted interestingly for long runs.

She must be compassionate and loving, yet also tough. She must be intelligent and tactical, yet not look weak not less physically able.

As a kinf of women's emblem she has a lot on her shoulders. Its a lot of balancing. With Batman, in general you make him darker and grimmer the best you are making him. With Superman, you know he goota be as politically correct as it goes, big blue boyscout. With WW, its not that simple. She must be honorable, but practical, but compassionate but able to do what it takes, etc.

I think the writing of her in the comics has been pretty good in the modern age, outfit aside.

The arc where she fought Superman and killed Maxwell Lord was fairly epic. Lord gave Superman an illusion that Doomsday killed Lois Lane and that Wonder Woman was Doomsday, so Superman attacked her in a murderous rage, she fought him and sort of won, and then had to break Lord's neck to stop the spell, which angered the rest of the Justice League due to its violence. She was still being kind, though, like holding back when she injured Superman to try to beat him without killing him, and praying to the gods when she was plummeting to Earth semi-conscious at one point that she wouldn't hit anyone upon impact.

Her fighting style and internal narration during fights is more hardcore, like when she beat the Kryptonian Power Girl (Page 1, Page 2).

Her Flashpoint storyline was that in another timeline, the Amazons went to war with the Atlanteans and Wonder Woman became evil and took over Britain, and killed Captain Marvel and some other heroes.

Her current storyline starting in 2011 is sort of an Olympian Game of Thrones situation, where Zeus is gone and there is some chaos over his throne and she's trying to protect people from the gods and deal with their god politics (as a demigod herself, daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta), while dealing with all of the evils of Amazon society that she didn't previously know about (I'm not happy with those Amazon changes, all man-hating murderers now except her). But she also shows up in the Justice League comic, the Superman/Wonder Woman comic, to help Batwoman in the Batwoman comic, or to beat Supergirl up in Supergirl's comic.

I havent seen her flashpoint story, I ve been wanting to see the animated flashpoint since a good time now but I havent yet. The political side with her I like, I feel its a great angle for her that I ve heard Simmone originally wanted to emphasize.

Understand me, I ve never said she is a bad character. I believe she has a lot of potential, but on what I ve seen, WW being remarkable has been more e exception than the rule. It also has to do with personal taste of course.

 

[Penumbra]

My apologies for the unclear writting I am aware she no longer loses her powers wheni her bracelets go together. I mean she still has silly stuff that go along with the bondage thing like the lasso. In part I like the tool is very different from others, but I cant help to see it goofy when she uses it. Which probably I wouldnt have that problem if she wa cowgirl themed or something.

Then again by now taking out the lasso would be a mistake. I didnt know the thing about restraing hr powers on her bracelets though that does sound really cool.

Sometimes the lasso looks cool. I think when it looks really thin and extra golden like.

Yeah the lasso can't be taken out now, it's the most distinctive part of her character and what makes her fighting style unique. I think if they dropped the American theme of her outfit, the lasso would look less western-ish. Some Roman gladiators used nets as part of their combat weaponry, so I think of it like that, since she has a sword and her lasso.

The bracelets were updated for 2011. She was retconned as being the daughter of Hippolyta and Zeus (the made from clay thing was a lie to protect her from Hera), and therefore a demigod, and the bracelets help her to restrain her power she inherited from Zeus. She can shoot lightning out of them now, and can grow swords out of them, and still uses them to block bullets. (She's invulnerable, but has a slight weakness to piercing/slashing weapons, so bullets can break her skin and cause her annoyance but do not penetrate muscle or kill her. They keep that in place so the classic bullet-blocking thing she does is still relevant.) If she takes them off, her power and aggression grow substantially, as her true power. Like, she was fighting the Olympian god Artemis and was losing, so she took off the bracelets and completely stomped Artemis within one page.

I saw her in infinite crisis and her fit against superman. I really liked that, like where she uses some tactics against his supersenses. That was a cool moment for her.

I know she doesnt need an armor of course, its a thing of flavour. It definetely would need to be magical. I dont think it should be A LOT of armor though, maybe just some armored details. Like in the picture you show the upper part border of the clevage . More than anything I wold like her seeming more greek like in her flavour.

I dont have in general problems with superheroes having unpractical outfits (lets face it, while some excuses haveeen given in comics, Batman would sitll do much better with a more iron man approach. But still, its just not the same so I prefer Batman's suit as it is, spandexish(and with the alleged ultra kevlar protection stuff xD) ) and I dont generally have problems with superheroines looking sexy and deliberately so with their outfits.

My problem is that I cant help to see that at least for my taste it doesnt fit WW. If we go by her suit being a kind of nod to the US, which I think was the original explanation, she would still need to be a bit more politically correct on it if it was for PR purposes and she wants to be taken seriously. If not,then it should be for greek accuracy (for example, having the... Kilt is it called? The thing greek soldiers have as "skirt") where she doesnt care what others think because she is wearing a pice of her land..

I don't mind a mildly impractical outfit (Superman's cape is useless), but it's annoying to see the only female member of the core Justice League lineup being the only member that is not fully clothed.

It's also annoying to see that the Justice League has taken a step back in diversity. The original team was all white dudes plus Wonder Woman. But it improved over time, with rotating of some of the non-core characters. In the DCAU, out of seven members they had two women (Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl), and two people who are not white (John Stewart the Green Lantern, plus Hawkgirl, who like all Thanagarians is voiced by a Hispanic actress and is drawn with slightly darker skin, as their alien race is depicted in that version as basically Hispanic in a similar way that Superman is Caucasian, except Hawkgirl has different colored hair and eyes from all other Thanagarians.) Then the 2006 version of the JL had ten members, including four women and two people of color. Then the 2011 version had seven members, including six men and one woman and six white people and one black man.

I think her outfit should either go with a Greek armored theme or a modern them that covers her skin a bit more and looks less American.

E thing is she is a complicated character to write, and that's why I think its hard at least for what ñi ve seen, toe depicted interestingly for long runs

She must be compassionate and loving, yet also tough. She must be intelligent and tactical, yet not look weak not less physically able.

As a kinf of women's emblem she has a lot on her shoulders. Its a lot of balancing. With Batman, in general you make him darker and grimmer the best you are making him. With Superman, you know he goota be as politically correct as it goes, big blue boyscout. With WW, its not that simple. She must be honorable, but practical, but compassionate but able to do what it takes, etc.

I think her complexity is exactly why she's still a relevant character.

She was trained since birth in combat, can often bring down Kryptonians or DC Olympian gods in a fight, is willing to kill if absolutely necessary unlike Batman and some others, has a unique fighting style and hardcore internal narration during fights, but was also intended to be a more loving, social character than some of the others, with honor. So she's often the voice of reason but has a pretty big rage if someone ticks her off.

I havent seen her flashpoint story, I ve been wanting to see the animated flashpoint since a good time now but I havent yet. The political side with her I like, I feel its a great angle for her that I ve heard Simmone originally wanted to emphasize.

She's pretty terrifying in Flashpoint, and Flashpoint was by far DC's most violent animated film.

Understand me, I ve never said she is a bad character. I believe she has a lot of potential, but on what I ve seen, WW being remarkable has been more e exception than the rule. It also has to do with personal taste of course.

She gets a lot of flak from others that haven't read her character at all, and just see the outfit. A lot of people only know her from the Justice League animated show, where she wasn't written at her best.

 

[Me Myself]

Yeah the lasso can't be taken out now, it's the most distinctive part of her character and what makes her fighting style unique. I think if they dropped the American theme of her outfit, the lasso would look less western-ish. Some Roman gladiators used nets as part of their combat weaponry, so I think of it like that, since she has a sword and her lasso.

The bracelets were updated for 2011. She was retconned as being the daughter of Hippolyta and Zeus (the made from clay thing was a lie to protect her from Hera), and therefore a demigod, and the bracelets help her to restrain her power she inherited from Zeus. She can shoot lightning out of them now, and can grow swords out of them, and still uses them to block bullets. (She's invulnerable, but has a slight weakness to piercing/slashing weapons, so bullets can break her skin and cause her annoyance but do not penetrate muscle or kill her. They keep that in place so the classic bullet-blocking thing she does is still relevant.) If she takes them off, her power and aggression grow substantially, as her true power. Like, she was fighting the Olympian god Artemis and was losing, so she took off the bracelets and completely stomped Artemis within one page.

I don't mind a mildly impractical outfit (Superman's cape is useless), but it's annoying to see the only female member of the core Justice League lineup being the only member that is not fully clothed.

It's also annoying to see that the Justice League has taken a step back in diversity. The original team was all white dudes plus Wonder Woman. But it improved over time, with rotating of some of the non-core characters. In the DCAU, out of seven members they had two women (Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl), and two people who are not white (John Stewart the Green Lantern, plus Hawkgirl, who like all Thanagarians is voiced by a Hispanic actress and is drawn with slightly darker skin, as their alien race is depicted in that version as basically Hispanic in a similar way that Superman is Caucasian, except Hawkgirl has different colored hair and eyes from all other Thanagarians.) Then the 2006 version of the JL had ten members, including four women and two people of color. Then the 2011 version had seven members, including six men and one woman and six white people and one black man.

I think her outfit should either go with a Greek armored theme or a modern them that covers her skin a bit more and looks less American.

I think her complexity is exactly why she's still a relevant character.

She was trained since birth in combat, can often bring down Kryptonians or DC Olympian gods in a fight, is willing to kill if absolutely necessary unlike Batman and some others, has a unique fighting style and hardcore internal narration during fights, but was also intended to be a more loving, social character than some of the others, with honor. So she's often the voice of reason but has a pretty big rage if someone ticks her off.

She's pretty terrifying in Flashpoint, and Flashpoint was by far DC's most violent animated film.

She gets a lot of flak from others that haven't read her character at all, and just see the outfit. A lot of people only know her from the Justice League animated show, where she wasn't written at her best.

Oh yes her complexity can totally make her a very intersting and very relevant character. Its just thats harder to manage when writters frequently change like on the comic genre. Batman and Superman already suffer by this, and they are more or less "basic" enough.

I like yhe changes you speak of that have been done, I really like em. I always liked her using braceletes to bounce off bullets it looks cool. It could also have been justified simply by saying its reflexes from her part , or simply wanting to control how the bullets bounce off so they dont hurt inocent people.

Yeah, I think the USA thing makes damage instead of goodness. She totally should have had the pants. I remember having seen some image of her with black pants, and that looked a lot better. The only thing missing for me there was some greekness around but dat all. She definetely stands out the wrong way on that image. The others have had their suits be a lot less campy, males already dumping the trunks thing. I feel there is little to now excuse, she looks silly, she is supposed to look imposing and cool. At least she looks kind of muscular.

I like the rage I like the socialite. I definetely like the idea of her being embassadorish diplomatic.

Its just that... Suit

Again, I have no problem with sexy suits, but it just doesnt work for her.

I can understand it in a Harley, in a Catwoman, In a Poison Ivy, in a Black Cannary. Even in the belly button showing encarnation of the Huntress.

BUT WONDERWOMAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PUBLIC FACE :thud:

If they are to make her show skin, make it look like something she does because she feels proud of her colors, of a greek costume, or something. As it is, it really looks like she chose a bathing suit on a store and then put on her bracelets and her pretty little tiara and her high heels. It just doesnt work

Edit: I also really liked hearing about the swords. I wonder how does it look in battle though, if it looks organic.

 

[Penumbra]

Oh yes her complexity can totally make her a very intersting and very relevant character. Its just thats harder to manage when writters frequently change like on the comic genre. Batman and Superman already suffer by this, and they are more or less "basic" enough.

I like yhe changes you speak of that have been done, I really like em. I always liked her using braceletes to bounce off bullets it looks cool. It could also have been justified simply by saying its reflexes from her part , or simply wanting to control how the bullets bounce off so they dont hurt inocent people.

Yeah, I think the USA thing makes damage instead of goodness. She totally should have had the pants. I remember having seen some image of her with black pants, and that looked a lot better. The only thing missing for me there was some greekness around but dat all. She definetely stands out the wrong way on that image. The others have had their suits be a lot less campy, males already dumping the trunks thing. I feel there is little to now excuse, she looks silly, she is supposed to look imposing and cool. At least she looks kind of muscular.

I like the rage I like the socialite. I definetely like the idea of her being embassadorish diplomatic.

Its just that... Suit

Again, I have no problem with sexy suits, but it just doesnt work for her.

Fans go into rage mode when they try to redesign the suit, probably male fans but I don't really know. If her shoulders and arms are uncovered I think that's fine for flexibility and stuff, maybe her upper legs too, but I think she needs a good chest plate rather than cleavage.

Redesign #1 was hated by fans.

The modern redesign would have at least given her pants, but they decided at the last minute not to include the pants. Sometimes she wears normal clothes, like Greek clothes in her Greek setting, or a modern dress on her date with Clark Kent (she's in a relationship with Superman in the current storyline.)

I can understand it in a Harley, in a Catwoman, In a Poison Ivy, in a Black Cannary. Even in the belly button showing encarnation of the Huntress.

Black Canary has a good uniform now. Complete body coverage, and they still have a nod to the earlier fishnet design (with a blue layered mesh look that shows no skin).
Moderator cut: image removed

BUT WONDERWOMAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PUBLIC FACE :thud:

If they are to make her show skin, make it look like something she does because she feels proud of her colors, of a greek costume, or something. As it is, it really looks like she chose a bathing suit on a store and then put on her bracelets and her pretty little tiara and her high heels. It just doesnt work

I don't think her boots should have heels- either regular boots with a low heel or combat sandals or something. I don't have an issue with a tiara, she's the daughter of the Queen of the Amazons, afterall. The new one is silver instead of gold, and it is still big in the Wonder Woman comic but they made it small in Justice League, which I think looks fine.

Moderator cut: image removed

Not a fan of the cleavage or heels, and the bare legs depending on what she's wearing (armor okay, bathing suit no).

Edit: I also really liked hearing about the swords. I wonder how does it look in battle though, if it looks organic.

The sword is a way to further differentiate her fighting style from the rest of the Justice League from the writing/drawing point of view.

In the comics I think it looks fine. It's a short sword that blends well with her more hand-to-hand combat style, rather than being used like a katana or a longsword or something where only the blade gets used. And it's a divine blade so it's relevant against people of her level. She uses it in the Wonder Woman comic sometimes, along with other weapons. In the Justice League comic, she reflected Darkseid's Omega Beams back at his face with her bracelets and then jumped up and plunged her sword deep into his eye socket. She also slashed Hal Jordan with it once to give him a superficial wound after shattering his ring constructs with her fist, when he started a fight with her by restraining her with his ring. Superman grabbed the sword to stop her from hurting Hal so she kicked him across the block and kept her grip on the sword (but apologized later to Superman). Sometimes she doesn't use it, like beating the god Artemis or Supergirl without bringing it out.

In the trailer for Justice League: War (based on the new 52 Justice League series), her sword style looks beautifully animated at the 30-40 second mark:
[youtube]69ILNSlQhXQ[/youtube]
Justice League: War - Trailer Debut - YouTube

 

[Me Myself]

Fans go into rage mode when they try to redesign the suit, probably male fans but I don't really know. If her shoulders and arms are uncovered I think that's fine for flexibility and stuff, maybe her upper legs too, but I think she needs a good chest plate rather than cleavage.

Was hated by fans.

The modern redesign would have at least given her pants, but they decided at the last minute not to include the pants. Sometimes she wears normal clothes, like Greek clothes in her Greek setting, or a modern dress on her date with Clark Kent (she's in a relationship with Superman in the current storyline.)

Black Canary has a good uniform now. Complete body coverage, and they still have a nod to the earlier fishnet design.


I don't think her boots should have heels- either regular boots with a low heel or combat sandals or something. I don't have an issue with a tiara, she's the daughter of the Queen of the Amazons, afterall. The new one is silver instead of gold, and it is still big in the Wonder Woman comic but they made it small in Justice League, which I think looks fine.



Not a fan of the cleavage or heels, and the bare legs depending on what she's wearing (armor okay, bathing suit no).

The sword is a way to further differentiate her fighting style from the rest of the Justice League from the writing/drawing point of view.

In the comics I think it looks fine. It's a short sword that blends well with her more hand-to-hand combat style, rather than being used like a katana or a longsword or something where only the blade gets used. And it's a divine blade so it's relevant against people of her level. She uses it in the Wonder Woman comic sometimes, along with other weapons. In the Justice League comic, she reflected Darkseid's Omega Beams back at his face with her bracelets and then jumped up and plunged her sword deep into his eye socket. She also slashed Hal Jordan with it once to give him a superficial wound after shattering his ring constructs with her fist, when he started a fight with her by restraining her with his ring. Superman grabbed the sword to stop her from hurting Hal so she kicked him across the block and kept her grip on the sword (but apologized later to Superman). Sometimes she doesn't use it, like beating the god Artemis or Supergirl without bringing it out.

In the trailer for Justice League: War (based on the new 52 Justice League series), her sword style looks beautifully animated at the 30-40 second mark:

*Jaw drops* I WANT TO SEE THAT MOVIEEEEEEEEEE !


Sorry first time I saw at trailer, it looks amazing!

Mre to subject, I dont like WW costume there and the sword was okay for that short animation. Too little to make a judgement, but I like her managing more weapons regardless.

I am no buggy in functionality. My main issue when they draw her with high heels is that I dont relate it with warrior and it seems too,.. Superficial? IDK. i ts the kind of things I can forgive a Catwoman or other females I mentioned (though not Huntress) that go more with that sexy devil look.

I liked that image, the one you said the fans ranted against. The only thing I didnt like was the coat. It felt too off to me, though something at her shoulders may help her look more imposing I believe. I got nothing against the cleavage personally. She is invulnerable in general. Though depending on the design I may very well not miss it.

Black canary looks interesting. Something in that suit remind me of Big Barda

I like what you say about the sword style merging with the hand to hand, that sounds good.

I agree the bare legs could look good on a non bathing suit costume.

I really think they were silly ditching the pants at the last minute u_u. I say forget the fans, they will accept it eventually and I honestly think she would get a lot of new fans.


Talking about the JL and diversity I agree. I heard they dropped the "A"(of America) which if true I thi its a great move. I remember when I was a kid and saw some toys that said JLA and wondered what does the A stand for? (i knew english so I figured out the JL)

So when I looked it up I wondered why is it of America if the league protects the whole world in a lot of scenarios, and then I found out that America didnt even mean America, but it meant US and ñi was like what?:areyoucra

Also ita a shame they didnt now make Kyle Rayner the first GL . He would have been a cool way to put a latino in there (he wasnt even full latino, just altinish ñi believe ) that was one likeable character ñi could relate to! He worked for advertisement, he loved mangas, he was you "what if a geek with lits of will power had the ring?" Kinda guy . Loved to se his Mangaish robots in green fighting for him and the creative stuff he did instead of the boxing gloves and airplanes of Hal Jordan

I really havent read comics in a while. The only thing ñi have since new 52 was a TPB a friend gave me of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian. That one was cool. Awesome to see Batman failing miserably to be a dad So epic

 

[Me Myself]

Then again, I do miss the motorcycle coat for BC

 

[Me Myself]

Oh and I have no problem with e tiara in itself, its just that with the bathing suit, it looks like if she just wont a bathing suit contest u_u

 

[Penumbra]

*Jaw drops* I WANT TO SEE THAT MOVIEEEEEEEEEE !

Sorry first time I saw at trailer, it looks amazing!

Mre to subject, I dont like WW costume there and the sword was okay for that short animation. Too little to make a judgement, but I like her managing more weapons regardless.

I am no buggy in functionality. My main issue when they draw her with high heels is that I dont relate it with warrior and it seems too,.. Superficial? IDK. i ts the kind of things I can forgive a Catwoman or other females I mentioned (though not Huntress) that go more with that sexy devil look.

I liked that image, the one you said the fans ranted against. The only thing I didnt like was the coat. It felt too off to me, though something at her shoulders may help her look more imposing I believe. I got nothing against the cleavage personally. She is invulnerable in general. Though depending on the design I may very well not miss it.

Black canary looks interesting. Something in that suit remind me of Big Barda

I like what you say about the sword style merging with the hand to hand, that sounds good.

I agree the bare legs could look good on a non bathing suit costume.

I really think they were silly ditching the pants at the last minute u_u. I say forget the fans, they will accept it eventually and I honestly think she would get a lot of new fans.

They'll probably not really change it. They could have changed it during the 2011 reboot but didn't; only gave it minor changes. The Justice League War movie changes it from the comics the movie is based on (and they also switched out Aquaman for Captain Marvel, Aquaman can't get a break), and I like that it covers her top more but I still don't like it overall. The sword work and lasso style looks good, though.

She wears normal clothes in the comics sometimes when she's in the human world. (Examples 1, 2, 3, 4)

She just puts on the bathing suit to go fight villains. :sarcastic

Talking about the JL and diversity I agree. I heard they dropped the "A"(of America) which if true I thi its a great move. I remember when I was a kid and saw some toys that said JLA and wondered what does the A stand for? (i knew english so I figured out the JL)

So when I looked it up I wondered why is it of America if the league protects the while world in a lot of scenarios, and then I found out that America didnt even mean America, but it meant US and ñi was like what?:areyoucra

Also ita a shame they didnt now make Kyle Rayner the first GL . He would have been a cool way to put a latino in there (he wasnt even full latino, just altinish ñi believe ) that was one likeable character ñi could relate to! He worked for advertisement, he loved mangas, he was you "what if a geek with lits of will power had the ring?" Kinda guy . Loved to se his Mangaish robots in green fighting for him and the creative stuff he did instead of the boxing gloves and airplanes of Hal Jordan

I really havent read comics in a while. The only thing ñi have since new 52 was a TPB a friend gave me of Batman and Robin with Bruce and Damian. That one was cool. Awesome to see Batman failing miserably to be a dad So epic

Currently there is a Justice League and a totally separate Justice League of America.

The Justice League is the main original one, with Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and the other classics (a couple of them rotate a bit, like Hal Jordan). But the government Agent Amanda Waller wanted the United States to have a means of defense against the Justice League (this was a heavy theme in the Justice League animated series). So, she recruited members to join the Justice League of America, and they fight various threats but are also hand-picked to each specifically be able to (in theory) beat one member of the core Justice League in case the JL ever goes rogue.

 

[Penumbra]

Oh and I have no problem with e tiara in itself, its just that with the bathing suit, it looks like if she just wont a bathing suit contest u_u

Well when she was fighting Superman in the Maxwell Lord story arc, she used the tiara to cut Superman's throat and basically win the fight, because that stopped him for a long time.

 

[Me Myself]

Well when she was fighting Superman in the Maxwell Lord story arc, she used the tiara to cut Superman's throat and basically win the fight, because that stopped him for a long time.

Cutting throats is hardcore and cool. There is something about a boomerang tiara though

It makes sense. As you say, its paet of who she is . Its actually one of the few things on her looks that actually make sense. Its just the having the tiara plus the bathing suit. And of course, there is the colors thing.

Granted, black is not terribly greek AFAIK, but her color theme just throws me off. She looks cool with the goldens (which are at least closer to greekish, when they want to exalt something, like a god) but the strng blue and red contrast I can definetely live without. Makes me think of Superman and Spiderman. Black plus golden plus red? Thats another thing. That, I can dig.

 

[Me Myself]

They'll probably not really change it. They could have changed it during the 2011 reboot but didn't; only gave it minor changes. The Justice League War movie changes it from the comics the movie is based on (and they also switched out Aquaman for Captain Marvel, Aquaman can't get a break), and I like that it covers her top more but I still don't like it overall. The sword work and lasso style looks good, though.

She wears normal clothes in the comics sometimes when she's in the human world. (Examples 1, 2, 3, 4)

She just puts on the bathing suit to go fight villains. :sarcastic

Currently there is a Justice League and a totally separate Justice League of America.

The Justice League is the main original one, with Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and the other classics (a couple of them rotate a bit, like Hal Jordan). But the government Agent Amanda Waller wanted the United States to have a means of defense against the Justice League (this was a heavy theme in the Justice League animated series). So, she recruited members to join the Justice League of America, and they fight various threats but are also hand-picked to each specifically be able to (in theory) beat one member of the core Justice League in case the JL ever goes rogue.

The JLA thing sounds interesting.

Yeah the change in clothing sounds like almost impossible now u_u

I wish ey made a good live action movie of JL. I think it would be almost impossible (specially for the "good" part) but it would be so awesome.

I mean, the way they could make it work is if they did like in Avengers and have each JL character have its own movie prior to the main JL one. they could go with the animated DCU approach and hae the Martian have his intro on the JL vie and not before maybe,

Its hard for me to imagine a cool WW movie though, or a cool Flash movie. And I LOVE Flash.

I mean, I can imagine those movies in ways I would like em, but the general public? i dont know

I do would like Aquaman getting more respect. Its kinda hard too though. If they did, they would need eye candy like with Thor, so women could be on board and maybe get it to float (pun intended) .

I heard his new 52 is REALLY good. Another one ñi would like to get >.<

 

[Penumbra]

The JLA thing sounds interesting.

Yeah the change in clothing sounds like almost impossible now u_u

I wish ey made a good live action movie of JL. I think it would be almost impossible (specially for the "good" part) but it would be so awesome.

I mean, the way they could make it work is if they did like in Avengers and have each JL character have its own movie prior to the main JL one. they could go with the animated DCU approach and hae the Martian have his intro on the JL vie and not before maybe,

Its hard for me to imagine a cool WW movie though, or a cool Flash movie. And I LOVE Flash.

Wonder Woman movie should be easy in theory. They can go with an Olympian gods battle in her world that spills over into our world, like her comics (they've made big ancient Greece themed films before like Clash of the Titans and these Percy Jackson movies, plus the similar Thor theme was financially successful even if critically kind of flat, plus there were several Underworld movies with a female lead and a fantasy setting that interacts with our world), or they could go with an origin story where Steve Trevor crash lands on her island and she accompanies him back to the United States and gets into some type of action and plot. There are multiple complex plots they can go with if they get some good writers on board.

They just have to avoid some stupid pitfalls:
-Don't make her a sex object.
-Don't keep reminding the audience that she's a tough woman. Show, don't tell. Don't exaggerate it and try to oversell her gender and make it corny. Take notes from the movie Salt, where they wrote the script for a man and then later changed the main character to female without changing much else. Catwoman and Electra movies are awful and to be avoided. Just make her a ridiculously powerful demigod warrior that happens to be female and has a rich personality, like she's supposed to be. When she comes to the world, she is naive and confused and swings her sword around at inappropriate times in the comics (even though she's in perfect control of it), almost exactly like Thor in his first movie, which can add humor to the movie. She fits in well at her own home but is not used to the idea of a society that is not familiar with melee weapons that fears her sword being out, and she thinks ice cream is freaking amazing, in the Justice League comic.
-Do pick an actress who looks like she can kill people. In the comics, her physical size is currently 6'0" and 165 lbs, with a toned look. They probably won't pick someone that tall but she should look powerful.

I mean, I can imagine those movies in ways I would like em, but the general public? i dont know

They're planning a JL movie for 2017 after the Man of Steel sequel in 2015. At that point they'll have introduced Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern in separate movies, and there were subtle references to the existence of Cyborg in Man of Steel. There are rumors of a Wonder Woman cameo in the 2015 Man of Steel sequel. There is a potential 2016 Flash movie. They could keep it to five, or expand it to six with Cyborg.

The only hard part that I see is how to group Wonder Woman with the rest of the League, because her ancient Greek theme doesn't fit the best with the rest of the League's science fiction theme (the kryptonian alien, the Gotham vigilante, the space cop, the fast scientific accident, and the cyborg on one hand, and then there is the Atlantean and the demigod Amazon warrior daughter of Zeus). In the DC universe, there are Olympian gods, aliens, magic, advanced technology, and Atlantis, which is all a bit too cluttered for a movie so they might want to consolidate on the science fiction side and skip Aquaman (can't skip Wonder Woman though, she's never not in the League). Avengers made it work by making Thor essentially an alien god, therefore fitting in with the science fiction themes of Iron Man, Hulk, the unfrozen Captain America, and the soldiers.

And I hope they don't nerf Wonder Woman in the movie and make her far weaker than Superman even though in the main stories she's on his level. I have a feeling they might do that so that she's only as tough as Captain America or something like that.

I do would like Aquaman getting more respect. Its kinda hard too though. If they did, they would need eye candy like with Thor, so women could be on board and maybe get it to float (pun intended) .

I heard his new 52 is REALLY good. Another one ñi would like to get >.<

The DC universe has internalized jokes from the real world. Aquaman is always the target of jokes from people, and now the public in the DC universe makes fun of Aquaman too, and thinks he's kind of a joke, even though he keeps proving otherwise.

 

[Me Myself]

Wonder Woman movie should be easy in theory. They can go with an Olympian gods battle in her world that spills over into our world, like her comics (they've made big ancient Greece themed films before like Clash of the Titans and these Percy Jackson movies, plus the similar Thor theme was financially successful even if critically kind of flat, plus there were several Underworld movies with a female lead and a fantasy setting that interacts with our world), or they could go with an origin story where Steve Trevor crash lands on her island and she accompanies him back to the United States and gets into some type of action and plot. There are multiple complex plots they can go with if they get some good writers on board.

They just have to avoid some stupid pitfalls:
-Don't make her a sex object.
-Don't keep reminding the audience that she's a tough woman. Show, don't tell. Don't exaggerate it and try to oversell her gender and make it corny. Take notes from the movie Salt, where they wrote the script for a man and then later changed the main character to female without changing much else. Catwoman and Electra movies are awful and to be avoided. Just make her a ridiculously powerful demigod warrior that happens to be female and has a rich personality, like she's supposed to be. When she comes to the world, she is naive and confused and swings her sword around at inappropriate times in the comics, almost exactly like Thor in his first movie, which can add humor to the movie.
-Pick an actress who looks like she can kill people. In the comics, her physical size is currently 6'0" and 165 lbs, with a toned look. They probably won't pick someone that tall but she should look powerful.

They're planning a JL movie for 2017 after the Man of Steel sequel in 2015. At that point they'll have introduced Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern in separate movies, and there were subtle references to the existence of Cyborg in Man of Steel. There are rumors of a Wonder Woman cameo in the 2015 Man of Steel sequel. There is a potential 2016 Flash movie. They could keep it to five, or expand it to six with Cyborg.

The only hard part that I see is how to group Wonder Woman with the rest of the League, because her ancient Greek theme doesn't fit the best with the rest of the League's science fiction theme (the kryptonian alien, the Gotham vigilante, the space cop, the fast scientific accident, and the cyborg on one hand, and then there is the Atlantean and the demigod Amazon warrior daughter of Zeus). In the DC universe, there are Olympian gods, aliens, magic, advanced technology, and Atlantis, which is all a bit too cluttered for a movie so they might want to consolidate on the science fiction side and skip Aquaman (can't skip Wonder Woman though, she's never not in the League). Avengers made it work by making Thor essentially an alien god, therefore fitting in with the science fiction themes of Iron Man, Hulk, the unfrozen Captain America, and the soldiers.

And I hope they don't nerf Wonder Woman in the movie and make her far weaker than Superman even though in the main stories she's on his level. I have a feeling they might do that so that she's only as tough as Captain America or something like that.

The DC universe has internalized jokes from the real world. Aquaman is always the target of jokes from people, and now the public in the DC universe makes fun of Aquaman too, and thinks he's kind of a joke, even though he keeps proving otherwise.

I like your make her look like she can kill people point I agree completely. For her to work, she needs be a warrior.

Indeed, good writters can make a lot of things work. Technically speaking, .i think Superman is the hardest to write for, though he has big help from the name.

For WW I think the big ing would be wether or not she would be campycheesy for people going to see her. A lot of people would expect campy cheese if going to see amovie of her I believe. Like expecting that the movie tries not to do her so but falls in it inadvertedly.

She most definetely would need pants for the movie. Batman was rid of the underpants briefs in the movies way before than on comics (though I admit I always wanted a not campy movie version of Batman with them ) they should put some frigging pants on WW on these.

I honestly cannot for the life of me imagine me taking her serious while fighting an Hydra in a bathing suit. Unless it was some sort of nod where the Hydra happens to attack her when she was on the beach or something

I like how they did it in the animated movie because they still made gender matter. I ve never liked it a lot, but it is big on WW mythos. She comes from an island of only women, were almost none of them have seen men, I think ever, or at least, for a very long time. Sexism would likely be part of her in the start and the managed it very well in the AM. It was sensical but she wasnt hateable and you could understand how and why it happened.

I never cared for Trevor though. He worked on that movie, but Oh please, make him be almost unimportant if they are to make a live action one of WW.

Sounds kinda fun that they ke a bit with him in the DCU, Aquaman I mean. DK, would be cool to read.

I never watched Elektra. I think I should. So I could laugh. I didnt care for Catwoman movie. To be fair, I ve never liked Catwoman.

I dont have a lot of problems with some nerfing. I just want her to be able to tackle really big stuff. If it is only because of a mixture of reflexes and lasso, I could survive to that.

My problem with making WW equal to Superman on herself is that she also has her lasso and tactical expertise and better hand to hand combat, etc.

I would want them to be even in an all out fight, but For that, IMHO, WW needs to be at least physically weaker than superman (though definetely way beyond cap america level. )

 

[Penumbra]

I like your make her look like she can kill people point I agree completely. For her to work, she needs be a warrior.

Indeed, god writters can make a lot if things work. Technically speaking, .i think Superman is the hardest to write for, though he has big help from the name.

For WW I think the big ing would be wether or not she would be campycheesy for people going to see her. A lot of people would expect campy cheese if going to see amovie of her I believe. Like expecting that the movie tries not to do her so but falls in it inadvertedly.

She most definetely would need pants for the movie. Batman was rid of the underpants briefs in the movies way before than on comics (though I admit I always wanted a not campy movie version of Batman with them ) they should put some frigging pants on WW on these.

I honestly cannot for the life of me imagine me taking her serious while fighting an Hydra in a bathing suit. Unless it was some sort of nod where the Hydra happens to attack her when she was on the beach or something

I like how they did it in the animated movie because they still made gender matter. I ve never liked it a lot, but it is big on WW mythos. She comes from an island of only women, were almost none of them have seen men, I think ever, or at least, for a very long time. Sexism would likely be part of her in the start and the managed it very well in the AM. It was sensical but she wasnt hateable and you could understand how and why it happened.

I never cared for Trevor though. He worked on that movie, but Oh please, make him be almost unimportant if they are to make a live action one of WW.

Sounds kinda fun that they ke a bit with him in the DCU, Aquaman I mean. DK, would be cool to read.

I never watched Elektra. I think I should. So I could laugh. I didnt care for Catwoman movie. To be fair, I ve never liked Catwoman.

Gender will matter because she comes from an island of women and encounters a mixed gender land, but they need to write it correctly and not exaggerate her. She knows Hephestus and trains with Ares, god of war, so she knows men too, just not very well, and has some inaccurate knowledge of men before meeting some.

I dont have a lot of problems with some nerfing. I just want her to be able to tackle really big stuff. If it is only because of a mixture of reflexes and lasso, I could survive to that.

My problem with making WW equal to Superman on herself is that she also has her lasso and tactical expertise and better hand to hand combat, etc.

I would want them to be even in an all out fight, but For that, IMHO, WW needs to be at least physically weaker than superman (though definetely way beyond cap america level. )

The way she is written, her stats are similar to Superman's, not identical. She's roughly as strong as he is, but not quite as durable. Like, she can get paper cuts from machine guns and Superman's punches hurt her a bit more than her punches hurt him, and she doesn't have heat vision and super senses, so she makes up for it with superior skill and divine weapons. Like in that Maxwell Lord fight, she had to rely on skill and was sort of the underdog the whole time against Superman in a murderous rage because he can exceed her power when he's like that (for example, his grip broke her wrist toward the end), but she did manage to drop him hard in that fight and then later cut his throat.

So far in the New 52, she has beaten some Olympian gods in fights, has beaten Supergirl in a fight without really trying, kicked Superman really far when he grabbed her blade, teamed up with Superman to easily lift an aircraft carrier while flying, lifted a large military plane while flying, shattered Hal Jordan's ring constructs and roughed him up pretty well, but was losing a fight to Doomsday and broke her arm in the encounter and quickly healed, and lost a fight to the god called "First Born" even with her bracelets off, because he's powerful enough to take down other gods. In the comics currently, she replaced Ares as the God of War, though she doesn't really want that job. So she's the God of War.

In older comics, she beat Powergirl in a fight (including surviving getting thrown vertically down through a parking garage and crashing through each level to the bottom without injury), fought against Superman on various occasions with mixed success (including surviving without injury him shooting heat vision point blank at her face and then punching her from space down to Earth, causing an explosion and crater upon impact), and helped Superman and the Martian Manhunter pull the Earth through space once.

The last thing I want to see is the most powerful woman in comics get nerfed and made unequal to Superman.

 

[Penumbra]

This is the kind of nonsense that happens to female superheroes.

A) They make Catwoman and Elektra movies (terribly written beyond all reason), and then suggest that female superheroes don't sell well.

B) They do things like disguise stories featuring a female lead to trick men to see it. The animated movie Batman/Superman Apocalypse was actually the Supergirl origin story, all about Supergirl. She comes to Earth, Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman interact with her a lot, they develop her character well with a plot, and she fights Darkseid one on one, and yet they call it Batman/Superman Apocalypse and leave out Wonder Woman and especially Supergirl from the title, who the whole movie was based around. It's like, "surprise, we got you to see it and you liked it!"

 

[Me Myself]

Gender will matter because she comes from an island of women and encounters a mixed gender land, but they need to write it correctly and not exaggerate her. She knows Hephestus and trains with Ares, god of war, so she knows men too, just not very well, and has some inaccurate knowledge of men before meeting some.

The way she is written, her stats are similar to Superman's, not identical. She's roughly as strong as he is, but not quite as durable. Like, she can get paper cuts from machine guns and Superman's punches hurt her a bit more than her punches hurt him, and she doesn't have heat vision and super senses, so she makes up for it with superior skill and divine weapons. Like in that Maxwell Lord fight, she had to rely on skill and was sort of the underdog the whole time against Superman in a murderous rage because he can exceed her power when he's like that.

So far in the New 52, she has beaten some Olympian gods in fights, has beaten Supergirl in a fight without really trying, kicked Superman really far when he grabbed her blade, shattered Hal Jordan's ring constructs and roughed him up pretty well, but was losing a fight to Doomsday and broke her arm in the encounter, and lost a fight to the god called "First Born" even with her bracelets off, because he's powerful enough to take down other gods. In the comics currently, she replaced Ares as the God of War, though she doesn't really want that job.

The last thing I want to see is the most powerful woman comics get nerfed and made unequal to Superman.

I honestly dont think it's all in the fights. I would expect her to be a better head that superman on PR and in a JA, that is really important.

Idk, in general, I am ok if both break a sweat when they fight and it is reasonably even. But they both go all out. In WW's case, that would mean using her divine stuff

I dont like the gender subject as I said, the better they can make a reasonable plot that doesnt have much to do with it, the better.

It was fun on the AM though I loved the part where she showed the little black girl how to win over the other kids in the fight and then Trevor told her "oh sure, you taught her how to get over her problems with blunt force. Lovable" kinda comment

I think what I loved abuot that movie was a lot in the dialogues and e snark. I am a sucker for good dialogue

What you talk about sounds really good. Do you recommend her comics?

The tng is that where I am right now... Well, I want to buy comics, but I cannot say how I read some because ñi think it would go against forum rules.

I try to save for those I know ñi want to HAVE not just read and buy them via amazon,

For now, I know I want new 52 nightwing, a friend bought me new 52 Flash but it may take for ever for me to get it from her. I know I want Aquaman too.

The Batman stuff... May have to... Well, you know, forum rules.

 

[Me Myself]

This is the kind of nonsense that happens to female superheroes.

A) They make Catwoman and Elektra movies (terribly written beyond all reason), and then suggest that female superheroes don't sell well.

B) They do things like disguise stories featuring a female lead to trick men to see it. The animated movie Batman/Superman Apocalypse was actually the Supergirl origin story, all about Supergirl. She comes to Earth, Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman interact with her a lot, they develop her character well with a plot, and she fights Darkseid one on one, and yet they call it Batman/Superman Apocalypse and leave out Wonder Woman and especially Supergirl from the title, who the whole movie was based around. It's like, "surprise, we got you to see it and you liked it!"

Sounds like its good I didnt really know about that when I watched it

The apocalypse movie was kinda meh.

 

[Me Myself]

BTW, I think you have mentioned it before on some other thread, but:

Which are your favorite DC characters?

which have been your favorite runs of those characters and in general your favorite comic stuff in DC from others?

 

[Penumbra]

I honestly dont think it's all in the fights. I would expect her to be a better head that superman on PR and in a JA, that is really important.

Idk, in general, I am ok if both break a sweat when they fight and it is reasonably even. But they both go all out. In WW's case, that would mean using her divine stuff

It's not all about the fights, but to nerf the strongest woman would be annoying, yet I bet they will.

I dont like the gender subject as I said, the better they can make a reasonable plot that doesnt have much to do with it, the better.

It was fun on the AM though I loved the part where she showed the little black girl how to win over the other kids in the fight and then Trevor told her "oh sure, you taught her how to get over her problems with blunt force. Lovable" kinda comment

I think what I loved abuot that movie was a lot in the dialogues and e snark. I am a sucker for good dialogue

What you talk about sounds really good. Do you recommend her comics?

The tng is that where I am right now... Well, I want to buy comics, but I cannot say how I read some because ñi think it would go against forum rules.

I try to save for those I know ñi want to HAVE not just read and buy them via amazon,

For now, I know I want new 52 nightwing, a friend bought me new 52 Flash but it may take for ever for me to get it from her. I know I want Aquaman too.

The Batman stuff... May have to... Well, you know, forum rules.

The Batman comic is currently considered one of the better ones in the New 52.

Wonder Woman comic is considered one of the better ones too, and it's my favorite. It has a long-term plot rather than a series of adventures. One of the criticisms is that it is cut off from the rest of the DC universe. Her comic is Olympian themed and devoid of most other heroes, but at least she shows up in Justice League, Superman / Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Batwoman, Justice League of America, etc even if they don't show up in hers. Overall there is some controversy about it (like how they depict Amazons now), but the broad opinion is that it's one of the better-written ones in the New 52. People really like the art in general too, with a unique style. The gods have pretty cool redesigns, like Apollo is always well-dressed.

The first four collected volumes of Wonder Woman in the New 52 are called "Blood" "Guts" "Iron" and "War".

Sounds like its good I didnt really know about that when I watched it

The apocalypse movie was kinda meh.

It was on par with most of the other animated ones. The point is that out of all of the movies, it was one of the most inappropriately marketed because they didn't want to advertise it as having a female central character even though that's what it had.

The final fight against Darkseid (3 minutes of supergirl fighting him, 4 minutes of superman fighting him) was probably the longest animated DC fight ever and probably the best choreographed one for Supergirl's part (Wonder Woman's fight against the Furies was also extremely well choreographed), but people probably wouldn't expect that if the movie was called "Supergirl".

Supergirl's portion:
[youtube]crjr_VtlHFM[/youtube]
Supergirl vs Darkseid - YouTube

BTW, I think you have mentioned it before on some other thread, but:

Which are your favorite DC characters?

which have been your favorite runs of those characters and in general your favorite comic stuff in DC from others?

I like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Black Canary, Supergirl, Batgirl (Barbara Gordon and Cassanda Cain), and Green Arrow. There are others that I think are okay, but I just don't really follow them, like I don't follow Marvel comics either except for watching some of the movies (I like Magneto a lot).

In the DCAU, I also really like Hawkgirl and Green Lantern John Stewart, including their cute relationship. (The comics version of Hawkgirl isn't as cool as the DCAU version, imo, and I don't have an interest in following Green Lantern comics.)

For villains or anti-heroes I like Lex, Joker, Harley Quinn, Darkseid, Doomsday, Zod, and Faora.