Convince me that God is loving

[Trailblazer]

And that is a belief that YOU hold, also based on no evidence. One that you can therefor change at any time.

The belief I hold that calls into question whether God is loving is based upon evidence, and that evidence is all the suffering people have endure in this life through no fault of their own. I do not think my belief is likely to change unless I look at suffering from a different perspective, but I have already tried doing that for many years.

There is no "correct belief". In fact, I think belief is nothing more than our ego convincing us that we're right when we have no way of actually knowing that we are.

If that was true, it would be your ego convincing you that God is loving, and my ego convincing me He is not.

However, I believe there are correct beliefs even if I do not agree with them. The evidence that God is loving is the scriptures, which I sometimes believe in my mind, but in my heart I cannot believe it because I don't feel it is true. For me to have to believe that God is loving creates cognitive dissonance since in my mind it doesn't make sense that a loving God would create a world that is a storehouse of suffering. I already know all the religious apologetic about how suffering is beneficial for spiritual growth and character development, but even if that is true, it is still suffering.

God may not exist at all. None of us knows. But this isn't about what God is or isn't. It's about what we choose to tell ourselves God is. And how that choice is effecting us.

I think this should be about whether God exists, and if so what God is or isn't, since that is reality. Sure, it can ever be proven, but we should want to know the truth as much as it is possible to know it, rather than believing what we want to believe.

That's your choice. So the question then becomes how is that choice effecting you? And do you have the courage to change it if it's not effecting as you'd hoped.

I am happy with my choice because I believe it is the truth, so it has a positive effect upon me. I am not going to change it because I would have no reason to, not because I like it but because I believe it is the truth which was revealed through Baha'u'llah. That is the 'basis' for anything I believe about God, not what I want or what feels comfortable.

No one can answer that question for you. You have to SEEK OUT the answers for yourself.

I already know 'what I believe' God does to show He loves us, He sends Messengers. Whether that is enough to counterbalance all the suffering in the world is another matter.
I wanted to know 'what you believe' God does to show He loves us.

Well, that's your problem. And the question is, do you have the courage to let that belief go? If not, I don't see what use your God is ever going to be to you.

This has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with what I believe is actually true. I am not going to let a belief go that I believe is true. It does not matter what God is to me, it only matters what God is.

None of us has any idea what God is or isn't, or what God can or can't do.

Yes, we do have 'some idea' what God is from scriptures. We do not know what God can or can't do but we know what God has done, if we believe in a religion. Since you don't have a religion you just believe what seems right to you, what feels comfortable.

How you feel about life is entirely up to you.

That is not true at all. How I feel is due to a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these contribute to how I feel about life, and some of these, like present life circumstances, cannot be changed just because I want them to change. I do not have that much power. I can try to adjust to my circumstances and try to see them in a more positive light, but that is not a panacea. Sometimes reality just sucks.

I have been going to counselors and psychologists since the 1980s and none of them ever said that 'how I feel about life is entirely up to me.'

None of us knows what God is or is not doing. None of us even knows if God exists or not. You keep spouting off as if you know. But you don't. It's just your ego telling you that you know things that you don't know. That's what it means to say "I believe". It's means "I believe I'm right" even though you cant know that to be so. Belief is a trap.

You are the pot calling the kettle black since you keep spouting off as if you know that God is loving and that God lives inside us and all sort of other beliefs, but you don't know any of that.

It is not my ego, it is my religion telling me what is true. I believe my religion is true, it has nothing to do with being right.

I suggest that you stop falling in it and start thinking in terms of a God that you hope to exist, and put your trust in that hope, instead. It's not about being right. It's about whether it improves your life, and your relations with other people.

I would never believe in a God that I hope exists and put my trust in that hope, because that is no basis for believing. I only want to know what is true, not what I hope might be true.

None of this is about me, so it is not about whether my belief improves my life, and my relations with other people. However, a true belief would result in that.

 

[PureX]

She wrote, "there is no evidence that God is loving. It is only a belief some people hold." Her belief IS based in evidence - the suffering in her life.

If so, she just blindly assumes that her suffering us somehow God's responsibility.

Her god doesn't meet her standards

Then why is she holding onto it?

This is what I mean about a god belief being held because it's comforting.

Her God-belief does not sound very comforting.

For me, that's a pretty good reason to abandon the idea that one exists.

Seems a better reason to find a God-ideal that does bring one comfort. Better still, find a God ideal that helps to change the way she feels about life, and love, and suffering, and all of it.

 

[PureX]

The belief I hold that calls into question whether God is loving is based upon evidence, and that evidence is all the suffering people have endure in this life through no fault of their own.

How is that God's responsibility? Also, how is suffering not going to be part of life? Do you have a model for existence in which humans can still be human but never suffer? You make these blind assumptions and now you're calling them "evidence". You could have made other blind assumptions and called them "evidence" for a different conclusion. The point is that YOU are making all this stuff up for yourself. And now your ego has you "believing it". But you could just as easily make up a whole different idea of God. One that provides you with different "evidence" and that leads to a very different conclusion. Perhaps a more useful conclusion, for you.

I do not think my belief is likely to change unless I look at suffering from a different perspective, but I have already tried doing that for many years.

It's only your own ego that's getting in the way. It is what is causing you to just blindly presume you are right. Try starting from the premise that no one knows what or if God even exists. Including you. So whatever idea of God you choose to hold onto, is going to be of your own invention, and presumably your own desire.

If that was true, it would be your ego convincing you that God is loving, and my ego convincing me He is not.

I am not "convinced" that God is anything. I don't even know that God exists. But I can hope that God exists, and is being expressed in my experience of the world as love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. And I can try to live in accord with that hope.

I think this should be about whether God exists, and if so what God is or isn't, since that is reality.

The reality is that none of us knows. Leaving us to deal with the question of God's nature and existence via hope, and faith, or by pretense and self-delusion. So let's start with honesty, and humility, instead of ego. Let's engage in hope and faith instead of the delusional pretense of belief.

 

[Ruhi19]

You are the one who needs to check your definitions. God is undefinable since God is beyond definition. It is humans who decided that God is Love, humans who wrote the Bible. I only believe it is possible that God is loving in some way unbeknownst to me because Baha'u'llah wrote that God is All-Loving. I trust what Baha'u'llah wrote since I believe He was a Manifestation/Messenger of God who was infallible, but I take what is in the Bible with a grain of salt since it was written by unnamed humans who were fallible.

You see what you want to see and you live in a little box. You don't want t look at all the suffering in the world, a world God created knowing how much suffering there would be for humans and animals. Imo, that is not loving.

I believe that God is someone else and somewhere else, separate from humanity, although I also believe that God is omnipresent, which is why I pray to God in desperation.

Is that all that matters, that you are happy because you feel loved by God? What about all the other people in the world who are not happy?
I suppose you 'believe' that if they could only see what you see all their real life problems would magically disappear.

You are free to believe in any God idea you want to believe in, but that does not mean such a God actually exists. It only exists in your imagination.

You are an excellent example of confirmation bias. You believe what you expect to see. I don't expect to see anything, although I have hope, so I hope to see my life improve eventually, by the will of God (fate) more than through anyything I can do on my own (free will).

That is not rational. We cannot will something into happening by 'hoping' it will happen. We do not decide what is going to happen, God does, so if it is not the will of God no amount of effort on our parts can make it happen. That is what I believe.

Faith without evidence is blind faith. I have faith, but because I have evidence my faith is not blind.

I don't know why you attribute what those strangers did for you to God's love, maybe because that is a teaching of Alcoholics Anonymous since most of them are Christians? I also had a long-term addiction that nded about 40 years ago. I was healed, but not by God. I was healed because for years and years I sought help from psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors and homeopaths, and also from people in 12 step groups.

If you know anything about psychology you would know that the more you try to force someone to believe something they do not believe the more they will rebel, so it has the opposite effect when people keep trying to convince me that God is loving.

I cannot share what I do not feel because that would be phony. As for finding joy, it is nowhere to be found, except in animals and nature. Humans always have selfish motives. Religious people such as Baha'is can pretend that they love me just because they know that is expected of them, but I don't feel it is genuine. I found love and understanding in a GriefShare group at a church and those Christians are sincere. It doesn't matter to me if I agree with all their beliefs. They genuinely care about each other and that is what matters.

I do not need to be 'saved' from myself because I am not 'into' myself. If you knew anything about my life you would understand.
I am not going to share that here on the forum but if you want to know you can always send me a private message. I think you would be surprised, because you have no idea what I have been through in my life, and what I am going through now.

Baha'is, and all humans, are still learning how to love others; to see God's spirit and characteristics within others. I would never judge a Prophet/Manifestation of God by those who follow Him because all followers are imperfect.

As to demonstration that God loves us: from a Baha'i perspective, God shows His love by continually sending us His Messengers (Prophets and Manifestations) Who can guide humanity on a path towards God. Also from a Baha'i perspective: humanity absorbs the teachings that God sends us but eventually the desire for material things and power creeps back into the system resulting in a need for a new Messenger. It is similar to gardening which is mentioned in the holy Scriptures, often referred to as a "vineyard". For example: Noah planted a vineyard (Gen 9:20); Solomon had a vineyard (Song of Solomon 8:11). The "house" of Israel (i.e., Judaism) is a vineyard (Isaiah 5:7). Jesus is said to be a vine and the Father is the husbandman of the vineyard (John 15:1-8). The vineyard produces its harvest (the righteous soul in humanity) but eventually the harvest becomes less and needs to be replanted. That is, the spiritual teachings have been understood (or misunderstood) and humanity begins to fall off the path. A new Messenger puts humanity back on the path with a renewed vineyard.

Also from this perspective, the barren fig tree is another symbol of a spiritual "house"/religion which no longer produces righteous souls. (Luke 13:6-9). In order for humanity to continue to grow spiritually, that tree needs to be replaced. It no longer produces spiritual nourishment that is satisfactory to the human soul and needs to be renewed. The new tree is taken from the seed of the old tree; that is, the core spiritual teachings are the same (love) but the social teachings may be different in keeping with the needs of humanity at the time they are given. Further, as humanity grows and evolves, their understanding of God's Message improves. They understand the symbols and references in the holy Books better with each Manifestation. They learn to be better lovers of humanity. But this is a long-term Plan.

From the perspective of the Bible, it is a Plan described in Genesis with the creation of the spiritual world in seven Days. Both Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 indicate that the Lord's Day is one thousand years. The religions of the Founders of the religions still existing today were each approximately 1000 years each. These are Abraham, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

From a Baha'i perspective: Details of God's Plan are found throughout the Hebrew and Christian Bible ending in Revelation with the events of Islam (their calendar began in 622 CE) and the closing of the Adamic Age (Muhammad being the Seal of that prophetic age), and the opening of a new Age, where the Promised One of each of the religions mentioned above will bring teachings to establish the peace so long desired by humanity. Because humanity resists change, the transition to peace is turbulent and painful. And ongoing.

 

[Trailblazer]

If so, she just blindly assumes that her suffering us somehow God's responsibility.

I believe that suffering that is not chosen by virtue of one's free will can be attributed to fate, for which God is responsible.

I addressed that in this thread:

Questions that believers cannot answer

Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.:rolleyes: If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering? If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew...

www.religiousforums.com

No mental health professional would ever blame a person because they are anxious, depressed, or grieving, and tell them it is their own fault. Rather, they would try to help that person with problem-solving, kindness and compassion.

Then why is she holding onto it?

I have no 'standards' that I expect God to meet.

Her God-belief does not sound very comforting.

Why would God be comforting, why should He be? God's purpose for humans is not to provide them with comfort.

Seems a better reason to find a God-ideal that does bring one comfort. Better still, find a God ideal that helps to change the way she feels about life, and love, and suffering, and all of it.

I have no interest in a God-ideal or feeling comforted by God. I only want to know the truth about God, as much as I can know.

The way I feel about life, love, and suffering is not going to be 'changed' by holding a different belief about God, one that isn't real. I don't need a 'loving God' fantasy to make me feel better about my life. I prefer reality, even it it is harsh sometimes. I will work through my feelings on my own, or with the help of kind, caring, compassionate people who don't judge me.

 

[Trailblazer]

How is that God's responsibility?

'I believe' that suffering that is not chosen by virtue of one's free will can be attributed to fate, for which God is responsible.
God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering, knowing that people would suffer, some much more than others.

Also, how is suffering not going to be part of life?

I never said that suffering is not going to be part of life.

Do you have a model for existence in which humans can still be human but never suffer?

No, I have no such model because I am not the Creator. Nor do I think it is ideal that humans never suffer.

You make these blind assumptions and now you're calling them "evidence". You could have made other blind assumptions and called them "evidence" for a different conclusion. The point is that YOU are making all this stuff up for yourself.

No, I do not make 'anything' up. All my beliefs are derived from the teachings of the Baha'i Faith.

And now your ego has you "believing it". But you could just as easily make up a whole different idea of God. One that provides you with different "evidence" and that leads to a very different conclusion. Perhaps a more useful conclusion, for you.

It is faith and evidence that has me believing it, not my ego. If *I* made up a whole different idea of God that led to other conclusions that would be nothing but an ego projection. Sorry you cannot see what is so obvious.

The evidence for God is what it is. All we can ever know about God is revealed through Messengers I don't make it up. If I made it up it would be nothing but an ego projection.

It's only your own ego that's getting in the way. It is what is causing you to just blindly presume you are right.

Why are you making this about 'being right?' I believe on faith and evidence. It has nothing to do with being right.

Try starting from the premise that no one knows what or if God even exists. Including you.

No, I am not going to start with that premise because I believe that God exists and that the Baha'i Faith is the closest representation of God.
If you want to hold onto different premise that is your choice. Do you have any personal boundaries at all?

So whatever idea of God you choose to hold onto, is going to be of your own invention, and presumably your own desire.

You are the one who is making a God in your own image, inventing a God that suits you for your own comfort and desire.
I cannot even imagine thinking that way. God is what God is and I do not decide what God is.

I am not "convinced" that God is anything. I don't even know that God exists. But I can hope that God exists, and is being expressed in my experience of the world as love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. And I can try to live in accord with that hope.

That's fine and it is your choice to think that way and live accordingly. Just don't expect others to think that way.

The reality is that none of us knows. Leaving us to deal with the question of God's nature and existence via hope, and faith, or by pretense and self-delusion.

You do not get to tell me what I know, because you do not know what I know or how I know it. That is a personal boundary violation.

So let's start with honesty, and humility, instead of ego. Let's engage in hope and faith instead of the delusional pretense of belief.

No, let's allow everyone be who they are instead of telling them how they 'should be', according to your standards.
Let's stop saying people have a 'delusional pretense of belief' just because they don't think like you. That is ego.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'is, and all humans, are still learning how to love others; to see God's spirit and characteristics within others. I would never judge a Prophet/Manifestation of God by those who follow Him because all followers are imperfect.

Neither would I. In fact, I would never judge a Prophet/Manifestation of God at all since He is so far above me and it would be like judging God!

As to demonstration that God loves us: from a Baha'i perspective, God shows His love by continually sending us His Messengers (Prophets and Manifestations) Who can guide humanity on a path towards God.

Yes, I agree. That is how God shows us that He loves us. I do not object to that belief. What I object to is that the belief that God does anything else to show His love, because there is no evidence of God doing anything else. Maybe God guides us and answers some prayers, but nobody can ever know that.

 

[Courageousignition]

Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.

Tell me why I should believe that God is loving.

I cannot believe God is loving since it makes no sense to me that there would be so much suffering in the world if God was loving. I am referring to suffering that cannot be tied any free will decision of the person who suffers.

I do not want to hear any religious apologetics about how suffering is for our own good. We all know that there is a lot of gratuitous suffering in the world, suffering that serves no purpose.

A person who loves someone does things to show that they love that person, and they make sacrifices for the other person. If a man tells me he loves me but does nothing to show it, why would I believe him?

What does God do to show He loves us? What sacrifices does God make?

I see no evidence that God is loving, so I have to write that off as a faith-based belief.

P.S. Whether we should love God or not is another discussion. In principle, I think we should love God and other people without expectation of getting anything in return. I do not need God’s love in order to love God. I do not need love from anyone in order to love that person because I consider that selfish.

Christians and Baha’s believe that God is loving, and I think there is a reason for that, other than what their scriptures say. Imo, they have to believe God is loving because they need to feel loved by God in order to love God. I have no idea why since I do not need God’s love in order to love God. The reason I want to know if God is loving is because I am tired of religious people saying that God is loving with nothing but scriptures to back that up.

Hi my name is Logan. I'm new to this site. I do find answering someones questions from the bible seem to men and help the most. In regards to your question, here is what I found, in 1 John 5:19
NASB 1995
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Humans are under the consumption that god is rulling this earth, but according to the bible it's Satan.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi my name is Logan. I'm new to this site. I do find answering someones questions from the bible seem to men and help the most. In regards to your question, here is what I found, in 1 John 5:19
NASB 1995
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Humans are under the consumption that god is rulling this earth, but according to the bible it's Satan.

Hi Logan and welcome to the forum.

I believe that God is ruling the world but God has given man free will to choose good or evil.

I do not believe that Satan is a real entity, but rather I believe Satan as referred to in the Bible is a metaphor for the lower sinful nature of man that is prone to do evil. However, I believe man has two natures, so man also has a higher noble nature that is prone to do good.

I prefer the following Bible translations that say the whole world lies in wickedness, since there is a lot of wickedness in the world, although I think there is also a lot of good, and I think good will eventually overtake evil.

1 John 5:19

KJ21 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
KJV And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

 

[Truthseeker]

The belief I hold that calls into question whether God is loving is based upon evidence, and that evidence is all the suffering people have endure in this life through no fault of their own. I do not think my belief is likely to change unless I look at suffering from a different perspective, but I have already tried doing that for many years.

If that was true, it would be your ego convincing you that God is loving, and my ego convincing me He is not.

However, I believe there are correct beliefs even if I do not agree with them. The evidence that God is loving is the scriptures, which I sometimes believe in my mind, but in my heart I cannot believe it because I don't feel it is true. For me to have to believe that God is loving creates cognitive dissonance since in my mind it doesn't make sense that a loving God would create a world that is a storehouse of suffering. I already know all the religious apologetic about how suffering is beneficial for spiritual growth and character development, but even if that is true, it is still suffering.

I think this should be about whether God exists, and if so what God is or isn't, since that is reality. Sure, it can ever be proven, but we should want to know the truth as much as it is possible to know it, rather than believing what we want to believe.

I am happy with my choice because I believe it is the truth, so it has a positive effect upon me. I am not going to change it because I would have no reason to, not because I like it but because I believe it is the truth which was revealed through Baha'u'llah. That is the 'basis' for anything I believe about God, not what I want or what feels comfortable.

I already know 'what I believe' God does to show He loves us, He sends Messengers. Whether that is enough to counterbalance all the suffering in the world is another matter.
I wanted to know 'what you believe' God does to show He loves us.

This has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with what I believe is actually true. I am not going to let a belief go that I believe is true. It does not matter what God is to me, it only matters what God is.

Yes, we do have 'some idea' what God is from scriptures. We do not know what God can or can't do but we know what God has done, if we believe in a religion. Since you don't have a religion you just believe what seems right to you, what feels comfortable.

That is not true at all. How I feel is due to a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these contribute to how I feel about life, and some of these, like present life circumstances, cannot be changed just because I want them to change. I do not have that much power. I can try to adjust to my circumstances and try to see them in a more positive light, but that is not a panacea. Sometimes reality just sucks.

I have been going to counselors and psychologists since the 1980s and none of them ever said that 'how I feel about life is entirely up to me.'

You are the pot calling the kettle black since you keep spouting off as if you know that God is loving and that God lives inside us and all sort of other beliefs, but you don't know any of that.

It is not my ego, it is my religion telling me what is true. I believe my religion is true, it has nothing to do with being right.

I would never believe in a God that I hope exists and put my trust in that hope, because that is no basis for believing. I only want to know what is true, not what I hope might be true.

None of this is about me, so it is not about whether my belief improves my life, and my relations with other people. However, a true belief would result in that.

I really like this post, this process with @PureX has seemed a lot like consultation, in which you have arrived at a conclusion that is satisfactory through the clash of ideas with a minimum of ego.

 

[Truthseeker]

'I believe' that suffering that is not chosen by virtue of one's free will can be attributed to fate, for which God is responsible.
God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering, knowing that people would suffer, some much more than others.

I never said that suffering is not going to be part of life.

No, I have no such model because I am not the Creator. Nor do I think it is ideal that humans never suffer.

No, I do not make 'anything' up. All my beliefs are derived from the teachings of the Baha'i Faith.

It is faith and evidence that has me believing it, not my ego. If *I* made up a whole different idea of God that led to other conclusions that would be nothing but an ego projection. Sorry you cannot see what is so obvious.

The evidence for God is what it is. All we can ever know about God is revealed through Messengers I don't make it up. If I made it up it would be nothing but an ego projection.

Why are you making this about 'being right?' I believe on faith and evidence. It has nothing to do with being right.

No, I am not going to start with that premise because I believe that God exists and that the Baha'i Faith is the closest representation of God.
If you want to hold onto different premise that is your choice. Do you have any personal boundaries at all?

You are the one who is making a God in your own image, inventing a God that suits you for your own comfort and desire.
I cannot even imagine thinking that way. God is what God is and I do not decide what God is.

That's fine and it is your choice to think that way and live accordingly. Just don't expect others to think that way.

You do not get to tell me what I know, because you do not know what I know or how I know it. That is a personal boundary violation.

No, let's allow everyone be who they are instead of telling them how they 'should be', according to your standards.
Let's stop saying people have a 'delusional pretense of belief' just because they don't think like you. That is ego.

Unfortunately, he would not stop. He does seem to have a lack of boundaries. He does have ego, but don't us all?

 

[Trailblazer]

I really like this post, this process with @PureX has seemed a lot like consultation, in which you have arrived at a conclusion that is satisfactory through the clash of ideas with a minimum of ego.

*OPTIMISTIC* (regarding the consultation)

 

[PureX]

If you are so sure, and so happy with your conclusion, why are you asking us about it?

 

[Trailblazer]

If you are so sure, and so happy with your conclusion, why are you asking us about it?

Who said I am sure? I am not sure.

In the OP I said:​

Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.​

Tell me why I should believe that God is loving.​

I just wanted to see what people would come up with that 'might' convince me that God is loving.

I am not happy with my conclusion since I have come to no conclusion.
Nobody knows if God is loving so it is just a belief. Religious people base their belief upon scriptures and other people base their belief upon their personal opinion.

 

[PureX]

Who said I am sure? I am not sure.

Well you sure are fighting to hold onto it.

In the OP I said:​

Convince me that God is loving without referring to scriptures that say that.​

Tell me why I should believe that God is loving.​

I just wanted to see what people would come up with that 'might' convince me that God is loving.

So you were just kind of wasting everyone's time?

I am not happy with my conclusion since I have come to no conclusion.
Nobody knows if God is loving so it is just a belief. Religious people base their belief upon scriptures and other people base their belief upon their personal opinion.

And you can change it at any time for any reason you like. Because what we think God is is not God. It's just what we think.

So my suggestion is to think God is whatever you would really hope God to be. And then live with that. If you're already are doing that, then you're just wasting our time debating it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well you sure are fighting to hold onto it.

You completely misread me. It is the exact opposite case. I am fighting to believe that God is loving because I want to believe that.
I even posted a similar thread on a Baha'i forum.

So you were just kind of wasting everyone's time?

I wanted to see what people would come up with that 'might' convince me that God is loving. How is that wasting anyone's time, because they did not convince me? Would it only be a good use of their time if they could 'egotistically' convince me that God is loving?

And you can change it at any time for any reason you like. Because what we think God is is not God. It's just what we think.

Even if what you are saying is true, that what we think is not God, that does not mean we can 'change' what we think about God, not unless we have new information that changes what we already think about God.

That is ludicrous. If that was true, all the atheists could just change what they think about God and decide to believe that God exists. Do you think that atheists such as @It Aint Necessarily So can change what they think about God? I don't believe that. They would have to have a 'reason' to believe in God, something they see as evidence for God's existence. They cannot just 'decide' to believe in God. A logical mind doesn't work that way.

So my suggestion is to think God is whatever you would really hope God to be. And then live with that.

Why would I want to do that? What I hope God is could be completely off the mark in which case I would be living a fantasy of my own making. I don't want to live a fantasy, I want to live with reality.

If you're already are doing that, then you're just wasting our time debating it.

No, I am not already doing that, but it is everyone's choice how they want to spend their time.

 

[Jainarayan]

There are many conceptions of God but I don't believe there is more than one God.

What does God do to show He loves us? What sacrifices does God make?

Then it's not God who is at fault, it's the human perception of him. It's what humans expect. By and large, Hindus for example, do not believe God, whatever we call him or her ... there is only one God ... gives tests, sends diseases, punishments, natural disasters. He does not give children cancer. An argument could be made that he sits back and does nothing, but is it really his job to cure/prevent cancer, prevent earthquakes and mudslides, hurricanes, famine or other natural disasters? Where is the job description for God that includes these things? Why is God required to show he loves us? That's something humans expect. Abrahamics, which I believe includes Baha'i, have painted themselves into a corner with an all-powerful, all-controlling creator and controller God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then it's not God who is at fault, it's the human perception of him. It's what humans expect.

Maybe some humans expect that but I don't expect God to make sacrifices for humans or love humans.
In my view, God is under no obligation to humans at all and what we do get from God is only by the grace of God.

By and large, Hindus for example, do not believe God, whatever we call him or her ... there is only one God ... gives tests, sends diseases, punishments, natural disasters. He does not give children cancer. An argument could be made that he sits back and does nothing, but is it really his job to cure/prevent cancer, prevent earthquakes and mudslides, hurricanes, famine or other natural disasters? Where is the job description for God that includes these things? Why is God required to show he loves us? That's something humans expect. Abrahamics, which I believe includes Baha'i, have painted themselves into a corner with an all-powerful, all-controlling creator and controller God.

I agree with the Hindu viewpoint even though I am a Baha'i. Some Baha'is believe that God 'sends tests' but that was not written by Baha'u'llah. We have to endure trial and tribulations since that is the nature of this material world, but that does not mean God is 'sending them.'

No, it is not God's job to prevent diseases and natural disasters.
No, God is not required to show he loves us. That is what some humans expect because they want to feel loved.

Whether God is loving or not really doesn't matter to me because I do not need love from God. I only asked to be convinced that God is loving because my fellow believers expect me to believe that God is loving, since it says that in the scriptures.

I do not feel liked I am painted into a corner with an all-powerful, all-controlling creator and controller God since I don't expect God to do anything just because He has all power, and I don't expect God to controll everything just becaue He could. That is illogical.

 

[ppp]

Then it's not God who is at fault, it's the human perception of him. It's what humans expect.

No. It is about what love is. If the actions taken don't conform to the definition of love, then it isnn't love. It's something else. Appealing to "not God's job" is irrelevant to that definition.

BTW, part of love is acknowledging one's responsibility to meet some of the fundamental expectations of the object of one's love. Any god who cannot step up to that basic expectation is nothing more than a stalker.

 

[Jainarayan]

No. It is about what love is. If the actions taken don't conform to the definition of love, then it isnn't love. It's something else. Appealing to "not God's job" is irrelevant to that definition.

BTW, part of love is acknowledging one's responsibility to meet some of the fundamental expectations of the object of one's love. Any god who cannot step up to that basic expectation is nothing more than a stalker.

Huh?