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Convince God his ideas suck, can save a nation.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Spiderman, May 20, 2022.

  1. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    I'm telling you, the right contender with God can be more useful than people who fear him and submit to his will.

    Moses saved Israel from destruction , not by respecting God's will, but by telling God his plans were terrible, nonsensical, awful, and by convincing God that God was in error, a nation was saved.

    Exodus 32:14
    King James Bible
    And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

    I seek Jacob's vocation as " contender with God," because he fought with God and won, was repeatedly blessed for rebellion and breaking God's rules.

    Some one with that rare gift of God blessing him for disobedience, sin, even using superstitious forbidden magic for financial gain, dishonesty, theft, and physically assaulting God, refusing to let go when God asked.

    The man he fought with was obviously God, because after winning the fight, the man changed his name to "contender with God", and said "you have fought with God and won".

    Someone like that in our world , could restrain God's wrath, get God to be more generous, do away with ugly end time prophecies, and some one who can save us from the God of Scripture, who murdered us all with a curse for a sin we aren't guilty of, would be our best friend, would be the most noble bad guy or beast of the Apocalypse.

    I am indeed against the God of Scripture, but I give him thanks when I am blessed.

    The book of revelation is simply displaying the most sadistic father, who unleashes beasts , spirits from a bottomless pit to torture people, and leave them wanting to die , but not allowing death, just excruciating torture. What good is that??

    If the right intercessors can convince God his decisions and plans are sick and wrong, it is Biblical God can repent of evil, have a change of mind and heart.

    Jonah wanted to die because he spent day after day declaring to Nineveh the day of their destruction, and the prophecy didn't come true, because Nineveh did something that got God to change his mind.

    If God were purged of his sadistic tendencies of tossing people in lake of fire, or letting flames torment people with wailing and gnashing of teeth, all found in Scripture, I wouldn't be so horrified.

    His decisions to torture sick scared people, while claiming "God is love", makes many humans more compassionate and kind than their creator.

    I truly think my monster Father needs seasoned contenders who convince him of his cruelty, more than anything, so he will repent of his evil plans , as he did when Moses convinced him he was being a moron.

    Fighting with God the right way , and getting him to believe his plans are terrible, being anointed to know how to get God to recognize what he is doing is wrong, such people can save more souls than the pious churchy folks, who tremble and fear God too much to oppose what goes against charitable conscience.

    The cruelty of my Father in Scripture, and in the suffering and disaster he causes, makes me feel the most holy, noble thing a believer in him can do, is learn how to successfully oppose and contend with him.

    Eternal damnation has scared and horrified the billions of people who think their loved ones go there, and eternal torture that never ends, my conscience says is pure, evil, sadistic, psychopathic, cruelty.

    An omnipotent God who would permit something more disgusting to me, than any sin or crime I heard of, the worst injustice I have heard of, I would be in total favor of such a God being overthrown and supplanted, so someone more merciful use his omnipotence and grace, will bring healing and heaven to all souls, no more suffering.

    Your thoughts are appreciated.
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Well maybe Christians have this covenant with Jesus going for them which God honors but maybe God doesn't really respect them there Christians. Having to rely on God's Son to pay for their sins.

    Accepting Jesus gets you into heaven but gets you no respect. Divine equity for those who aren't as equal as they ought to be.
     
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  3. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    The verse you cited is another example of the Bible contradicting itself. There are several verses that say God never changes.

    Malachi 3:6
    "For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."

    1 Samuel 15:29
    "And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”

    2 Samuel 22:31
    “God - His way is perfect; the Word of the Lord is pure. He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him.”

    James 1:23
    "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the
    Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change."

    Numbers 23:19
    "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his
    mind
    . Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?"
     
    #3 Sgt. Pepper, May 20, 2022
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  4. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    God sent some one to prophecy Nineveh being destroyed, then changed his mind.

    Scripture does say God changes his mind, so I'm not thrilled with the contradictions, but I was aware of them.
     
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  5. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    There are scriptures that confirm someone's salvation can be stripped away by Jesus if they don't follow God's will. Jesus' parable of the sheep and the goats is one example, and so is this verse: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). And there lies another contradiction in the Bible, because Romans 10:9:13 says that if someone declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, they will be saved. This Bible passage asserts that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
     
    #5 Sgt. Pepper, May 20, 2022
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
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  6. Suave

    Suave Simulated character

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    Me being a simulated character by God, who am I to criticize the Simulator, life's Creator, controller of simulations, the virtual reality programmer of human consciousness?

     
  7. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Better to dance with God than wrestle with Him, I say. Some of the steps can be baffling, but you have to let God lead; seek and follow His will, not our own.

    Maybe that’s why the Abrahamic God is often described as male. My partner says she always prays simultaneously to a Creator and a Creatrice - and she’s a better dancer than me. Maybe that’s why Mary is so prominent in Catholicism; something to balance out all that masculine energy.

    Anyway, Jacob was exhausted after his fight with the Angel, wasn’t he?
     
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  8. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Interesting you say Dance with God. I saw the Hebrew warrior Judge Deborah dancing in my imagination, and wrote about it shortly before seeing you say "dance with God".

    Jacob was limping the rest of his life from his fight with the Angel , who is also declared to be God in some form.

    But that struggle was actually very important part of his destiny, because it gave him a new blessing, with a new name, describing his vocation as contender with God, and giving me the greatest hope and inspiration of any Biblical figure, that fighting God and rebellion, when done just right, it can earn you a blessing instead of a curse.

    Repeatedly God blessed Jacob's disobedience. Some one like Jacob could save the world better than anyone, if he used his abilities to be above God's laws, get God to constantly compromise and make exceptions to rules, and fight with God and win, to save us from his cruelty and injustice.

    Such an anointing channeled the right way has endless possibilities, making him the person I find most fascinating of all people in Scripture.

    His key to becoming the amazing person he became, was loving a woman even more than he loved God, or the male superior God placed over the household, obeying her commands to rebel against God, and God blessed him for it.

    Saint Louis De Montfort compares Jacob to people who prefer female heavenly beings like Mary, over male Deities.
     
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  9. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so I just read that passage again. And it occurs to me that maybe it’s himself Jacob is wrestling with. When he asks his opponent for his name, the response he gets is “Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?” In other words, you should know your own name - “Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel”.

    So the divine spirit of Israel wrestled with the ego of Jacob, and he saw the face of God within himself; as later, he saw the face of God in his brother Esau - for The Kingdom of God is within.

    When Jacob greeted Esau, he did so with humility, which is a divine quality, not with pride, which is a base human quality. Paradoxically, humility is the way of strength while pride is the way of weakness; so Jacob the man, now become Israel the embodiment of God’s will, is able to bow to his brother without debasing himself. And the two brothers embraced rather than fought.
     
  10. Sgt. Pepper

    Sgt. Pepper RF's resident Beatlemaniac. ☮ and ❤

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    In light of all the contradictions in the Bible, maybe you should consider the possibility that it's plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it and Christianity. For example, the stories of Jesus' life were likely plagiarized from a few pagan religions that have similar stories of a holy man being born of a virgin, miraculously healing people, and being tempted by the devil before his ministry began. If you click on this link, you can read about ten other Christ-like religious figures who predate Christianity, and there are several striking resemblances between the stories told about their lives and the stories written about Jesus' life in the Bible. Also, the story of Jesus dying to save humanity and being resurrected on the third day isn't the first savior story of its kind. As a matter of fact, his death on the cross and his resurrection clearly parallel the life of Attis, the Greek god of vegetation (1250 BCE). Attis was crucified on a tree; he descended into the underworld after his death; and after three days, he was resurrected from the dead. He was also divinely born of a virgin. If you click on this link, you can read more similarities between his life and the stories written about Jesus' life in the Bible.

    Finally, I'd like to suggest another article for you to also read: Parallels between Christianity and ancient Pagan religions. Given the evidence I presented and the fact that Christmas and Easter have pagan roots, I think it's fair to assume that the Bible is plagiarized from pagan religions that predate it. What do you think about all this evidence that casts doubt on the authenticity of the Bible?
     
    #10 Sgt. Pepper, May 21, 2022
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
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  11. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think you have many false claims. Where it is said in the Bible that someone was blessed for braking the rules?

    Bible tells the wrestler was a man:

    Jacob was left alone, and wrestled with a man there until the breaking of the day.
    Gen. 32:24
     
  12. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Read the story about Jacob. He loved and obeyed his mother more than God, which is Idolatery, and God blessed him for it.

    He and his mother deceived his Father, lied to him, and with theft, stole a blessing, the greatest blessing in Scripture.

    Jacob used forbidden superstitious magic to change colors of sheep for financial gain, and God blessed it.

    The man Jacob fought with told Jacob "you have fought with God and won". Scripture makes it clear he was fighting with God.

    Google Jacob, and read his life in Genesis. I'm not going to do all your homework for you, because you can easily find out im speaking the truth.

    He rose to power as a thief and criminal and Idolater, and God blessed him for his sins.
     
  13. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

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    I don't really believe God intervenes that much in the world right now. It's mostly just followers doing things in his name, or non-followers doing things.

    So I might be able to convince God. The hard part is convincing people.
     
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  14. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's good that charity and helping is present in name of one's deity, but the fact that it's only people and nothing but people does raise legitimate questions about the capabilities of their beliefs in terms of ones deity or object of worship itself.
     
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  15. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don't think those claims are true, they can't be supported with Bible scriptures.
     
  16. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    Read the book of Genesis about the life story of Jacob. When he stole the blessing of Esau, following his mother's advice, he deceived and dishonored, and lied to his Father, and he was rewarded the blessing "blessed are those who bless you, cursed are those who curse you, in you all people shall find their blessing".

    That is the greatest blessing I have seen in Scripture, and he got it through theft and multiple other sins. It is undeniable, verifiable, easily proven in the book of Genesis.
     
  17. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I have read it and I don't think Jacob stole it, he basically bought it.
     
  18. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    . . . The title of your thread made me think about trying to get God to give up his atheism. :D I would like to give him the Gospel message and convert him: make him a believer; god-forbid, a Christian.

    President Ulysses S. Grant's father thought him a deadbeat slacker and a guzzler of demon rum. Which he was for a while ----before he became a commanding general and then President of the United States of America. Perhaps God isn't all that impressed with his son yet. But he will be when his son becomes President of the universe. Maybe then he will (God will) accept the Gospel message and be saved by his own son whom he was formerly pleased to torment on the cross for having grown up to be a long-haired beatnik treehugger (Isaiah 53:10).

    Yes he cursed a tree once (Matthew 21:19). But that was unrequited love. He hugged the fig tree and it didn't reciprocate nor even produce figs from the affair. If your fig tree offends you, cut it down. Better to enter the kingdom with an empty stomach than hug trees that don't respond in kind.



    John
     
    #18 John D. Brey, May 24, 2022
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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