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considering Orthodoxy but unsure


New Member
Is homosexuality(either thought or deed) accepted in any degree in Orthodoxy? I believe that Israel and its Orthodox ruling do not accept homosexual "marriages". However,the position of women as rabbis is slowly taking up ground from a previous post on the forum,(why do Orthodox jews reject women as rabbis?)might this also happen with the issue of homosexuality?
Some sites such as ilovetorah.com and the link to the Jonah website are promote changing ones sexuality and that it is a result of bad experiences from early life and therefore is not natural. They have made me rethink my views although family and friends have this orientation.
I question this because i am considering Orthodoxy after reviewing the different Jewish faiths and believe in a strong link to the jewish identity,culture and tradition.
I like the fact that Reb Moshe of ilovetorah.com is so passionate about Hashem and Torah. Also,i want to learn Hebrew and say prayers etc. in Hebrew. I also believe in Israel as the holy land,it is the centre of the faith. I also believe in the holiness of the Shabbat. With the restoration of the Temple and the coming of the Moshiach, i believe in vegetable/grain sacrifice,not animal and believe "Thou shalt not kill" to be the basis of this and that humans became greedy and selfish and so G-d allowed us to eat meat, (deviating from the prefered diet evidence i believe to be found in Torah in passages such as Genesis and other sources)
Genesis 29: And G-d said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
thereby the rules of animal sacrifice becoming known;however i am unsure that G-d officially stated all these rules but in keeping with the Torah,perhaps this is true.
However,i am vegan,so would not be able to fulfil some of the 613 commandments(such as eating paschal lamb) and may buy second hand tefillin etc,since i believe that if i absolutely have to use leather that it better already used. I would very much appreciate people's thoughts on this matter.


Religious Headbanger
Wow that's a lot of ground to cover. While I am not Jewish I am a Bnai Noach who spent a lot of time going through the same feelings. When we discover the deep, rich traditions of Judaism we automatically want to convert. I wanted to convert to Orthodox Chassidim but my wife who is a Gentile does not want to convert so I can not convert. I went back and forth between converting Reform or Conservative but in the end I had to learn my place in the world. I'm a Bnai Noach and by my keeping the law that applies to me not only will I have a place in the world to come but the Talmud teaches that I will have more honor than the high priest of the Temple.

One of the reasons conversion to Orthodox Judaism is so strict and any rabbi worth his salt will turn someone away at least three times, is because if a rabbi helps you convert and then you change your mind and you become non observant all your transgressions will also be on him too. Not just the convert. Not everyone is meant for conversion. but if you are serious and this is where G-d is leading you to you need to talk to a rabbi about your concerns and issues. Try here:


They have a rabbi there to answer your questions live 6 days a week, 24 hours a day. Any question you have, they can help. Talking to your local orthodox rabbi is a great start as well. And don't be hurt or discouraged if they don't give you the answers you want to hear because they can be of great help even if you do not convert.

As for the vegan issues check out this link from the pork bread thread...


The homosexual issue is a touchy subject aand there are many responces to it. Homosexuality itself is not forbidden but rather the sexual act is. And this is only aqpplicable to men. There is no clear cut prohibition concerning women but it is still frowned upon. In general the Chassidic community isn't too comfortable with it. Here is a link to a dvd called Trembling Before G-d that is a documentary about Orthodox Jews who struggle with same sex attraction. I found it very interesting and suggest it to everyone...


By the way I love Rabbi Moshe's site too. His passion for Torah is infectious! The Brezlov Chassids are a great bunch and I learn from them a lot. If you have any questions or just need someone to talk feel free to PM me.


New Member
And this is only aqpplicable to men. There is no clear cut prohibition concerning women but it is still frowned upon.
I hate to be so blunt, but that's just plain wrong, and the fact that it's repeated all over the 'Net doesn't make it right.

From the Shulchan Aruch, the most standard handbook of (Orthodox) Jewish law, Even HaEzer 20:2:

"'The sliding of women' (meaning: women who play and rub against each other) is forbidden as among 'the deeds of the Land of Egypt' which are Biblically forbidden, and it is fitting that they be given a rabbinical whipping, since they did what is forbidden, and a mean should be strict with his wife in this matter, and forbid women who are known for this from visiting her, or from her going out to them."

For further references see the usual commentaries there. There is no other opinion, and no question that this is Jewish law, unless you want to make up a whole new definition of Jewish law ad hoc.


I don't believe woman rabbis and homosexuality will be accepted by orthodox Jews anytime soon. Orthodoxy means being traditional to the religion, so change+Orthodox religions don't go too well together.

This is of course just coming from my general knowledge of Orthodox religions, so I could be completely incorrect with this post, as I haven't read up on Orthodox Judaism (yet) my boyfriend has told me a bit about it however, since he is jewish.


Defender Of Judaism
Orthodoxy is not pro-gay by no means.
However don't let that have an affect on your conversion.
Bible scholars can tell you that the word in Leviticus that they say is referring to homosexuality is ambiguous and the true meaning is unknown. They say it more than likely refers to Male Rape which was a common practice at the time. However Orthodoxy sticks to a strict interpretation for the most part. But you will find there are some Synagogues that are not anti-gay. I hope that helped >_>