Compiling dark gods, separate from the others, tricksters, taboo God's, etc.

[The Kilted Heathen]

There have been proposals that Gullveig (her name is related to gold, but confusing in the latter element of -veig), reborn as Heiðr, is Freyja, but nothing connects her to Angrboða. As is told in the Völuspá, she was quite possibly the catalyst for the Æsir-Vanir war.

The war I remember, the first in the world,
When the gods with spears had smitten Gollveig,
And in the hall of Hárr had burned her, (Hárr is a name of Odin)
Three times burned, and three times born,
Oft and again, yet ever she lives.
Heiðr they named her who sought their home
The wide-seeing witch, in magic wise;
Minds she bewitched that were moved by her magic,
To evil women a joy she was.

 

[ChristineM]

Elohim, El or whatever you want to call the god of Abraham is as dark as it gets for people who wont bow down and worship him. Responsible for genocide and child murder, chauvinism, condoning slavery including sex slavery. Not a nice character in my book

 

[Liu]

Elohim, El or whatever you want to call the god of Abraham is as dark as it gets for people who wont bow down and worship him. Responsible for genocide and child murder, chauvinism, condoning slavery including sex slavery. Not a nice character in my book

Yeah, also thought of that one.

However, I know that this thread is a twin-thread to another thread on another forum, and there the definition of what deity counts is slightly more specific, and El wouldn't fit the definition there very well.

So, @1137, I'm wondering, is this thread meant to hold to the same definition as the one there, or not?

(Oh, and now noticed that I mentioned some of my suggestions in this thread already in that other one when it was opened.)

 

[ChristineM]

Yeah, also thought of that one.

However, I know that this thread is a twin-thread to another thread on another forum, and there the definition of what deity counts is slightly more specific, and El wouldn't fit the definition there very well.

So, @1137, I'm wondering, is this thread meant to hold to the same definition as the one there, or not?

(Oh, and now noticed that I mentioned some of my suggestions in this thread already in that other one when it was opened.)

Im not replying to any other thread or forum. Not that it matters, the atrocities carried out by the abrahamic god are heinous

 

[1137]

Yeah, also thought of that one.

However, I know that this thread is a twin-thread to another thread on another forum, and there the definition of what deity counts is slightly more specific, and El wouldn't fit the definition there very well.

So, @1137, I'm wondering, is this thread meant to hold to the same definition as the one there, or not?

(Oh, and now noticed that I mentioned some of my suggestions in this thread already in that other one when it was opened.)

Yeah definitely, deities more aligned with the stellar/LHP traditions and ideals. El could not qualify as he as a solar, RHP deity.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

What qualifies as LHP or RHP, for deities who's cultures wouldn't have observed such things?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Fenrir and Jǫrmungandr are basically mindless monsters

Fenrir is sentient in the story about his upbringing and relationship with Tyr and betrayal by Odin. Not sure about Jǫrmungandr.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I was more looking for LHP description, disciple.

As for Jörmungandr, I don't think there's enough told of him to determine him as either sentient or mindless.

 

[1137]

What qualifies as LHP or RHP, for deities who's cultures wouldn't have observed such things?

All cultures observer such things.

 

[Liu]

Yeah definitely, deities more aligned with the stellar/LHP traditions and ideals. El could not qualify as he as a solar, RHP deity.

I don't consider that solar/stellar dichotomy to be universal, and I don't think it fully correspondents to a RHP/LHP-dichotomy.
Otherwise the Mesopotemian religions would pretty much all be LHP as they equated their deities with the stars, even though those were basically theocracies (or at least that was my impression of Mesopotamian culture from one lecture on it that I attended - dunno whether the impression is right).

Regarding the RHP vs. LHP-question, you know it's difficult to define that, but without at least a try at a definition you could claim any deity to be LHP or not.

Fenrir is sentient in the story about his upbringing and relationship with Tyr and betrayal by Odin. Not sure about Jǫrmungandr.

Thanks for the info, didn't have that story in mind.

As for Jörmungandr, I don't think there's enough told of him to determine him as either sentient or mindless.

Agreed. The stories in Snorri's Edda that I read about him so far did not show much any sign of sentience on his part, but it's not like they went that much into detail.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yeah definitely, deities more aligned with the stellar/LHP traditions and ideals. El could not qualify as he as a solar, RHP deity.

I dont get the decision to call Elohim a sun god either. Throughout scriptures he is depicted as working through stars more than anything else. And works in night with a lot of regularity, speaking at night, moving through night, acting at night. Jesus was literally (also) called the morning star in Rev, as are the angels. There doesn't seem to be any special good/evil nature put to day and night in scripture.

 

[Liu]

I dont get the decision to call Elohim a sun god either. Throughout scriptures he is depicted as working through stars more than anything else. And works in night with a lot of regularity, speaking at night, moving through night, acting at night. Jesus was literally (also) called the morning star in Rev, as are the angels. There doesn't seem to be any special good/evil nature put to day and night in scripture.

I would say you are right on this - much of the Jesus = Sun stuff came later I assume.
The only thing in the OT that comes to mind with night as evil is Lilith, but it's not like she has much of a prominent role there

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I would say you are right on this - much of the Jesus = Sun stuff came later I assume.
The only thing in the OT that comes to mind with night as evil is Lilith, but it's not like she has much of a prominent role there

I think it's sort of like how the symbology around fire has changed. Fire is associated with evil in a populist way but that was never the case in the bible. Fire was also used as a speaking mechanism and a cleansing, sterilizing agent.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

All cultures observer such things.

You figure this...how? It's easy to say such, but that doesn't make it necessarily so. I'm sure that every culture has things that qualify to what you call "left hand path", but I don't think (bordering on knowing) that they would call it LHP.

So my question remains; what are the qualifiers for "Left Hand" deities?

 

[Erebus]

Well my forum handle comes from the Greek primordial god of darkness so I figure it's pretty safe to throw Erebus into the mix. Also his wife, Nyx (night) and some of their children: Thanatos (Death), Charon (ferryman of the Underworld), Eris (Strife), Moros (Doom) and the Keres (spirits of violent death).
Other children of Erebus and Nyx could potentially qualify too. Geras was old age and so has some obvious negatives associated with him today but was far less ominous to the Greeks. Geras brought wisdom and dignity as well as infirmity. Nemesis may have been a frightening goddess but punishing hubris wasn't necessarily considered an entirely bad thing. It all depends on what makes you think of a god as being dark.

Personally, I view dark gods as those associated with things typically thought of as negative or frightening within a culture. They don't necessarily have to be destructive and to call them evil is to vastly oversimplify the matter. Nature isn't always kind or beautiful and dark gods tend to embody those parts that a lot of people would rather not think about. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Liu]

Depending on the definition I would perhaps even throw in Erebos' grandson* Eros (desire). At least when I read the Symposion a couple years ago, parts of Socrates' description of Eros felt to me quite like what occultists tend to call the true will or one's inner will.
Not exactly dark but still central to the LHP.

*According to one mythology at least he's Nyx' son even if I also like the explanation that he's the son of need and possibility.

 

[Holdasown]

Fenrir is sentient in the story about his upbringing and relationship with Tyr and betrayal by Odin. Not sure about Jǫrmungandr.

There are those who work with them who would say neither is mindless.

 

[SomeRandom]

Amazing! Thank you! Research for the weekend



It was recommended to me by a practitioners, I don't pretend to know much about the east. That said I'm on wiki really wuick:

"death, time, and doomsday and is often associated with sexuality and violence but is also considered a strong mother-figure and symbolic of motherly-love."

That's very much in line with these type of beings.

"She is most often represented in art as a fearful fighting figure with a necklace of heads, skirt of arms, lolling tongue, and brandishing a knife dripping with blood."

Fits.

"Kali’s name derives from the Sanskritmeaning ‘she who is black’ "

Fits.

"As an embodiment of time Kali devours all things, she is irresistibly attractive to mortals and gods, and can also represent (particularly in later traditions) the benevolence of a mother goddess."

Mostly fits.

"Durga became so enraged that her anger burst from her forehead in the form of Kali."

Bursting forth like that is as old as Set and other similar beings, this seems to fit well.

"In another version of the goddess’ birth, Kali appeared when Parvati shed her dark skin which then became Kali, hence one of her names is Kaushika (the Sheath), whilst Parvati is left as Gauri (the Fair One). This story emphasises Kali’s blackness which is symbolic of eternal darkness and which has the potential to both destroy and create"

100% Princess of Darkness

Pretty sure the goal is to be literally destroyed if one is a devotee of Kali.
And such depictions are supposed to be uplifting, because it shows how she has literally defeated death, suffering and evil incarnate. How is that dark?
But the West always did have a rather black and white simplistic view of such duality I suppose. Black does not equal dark necessarily, just saying.
Also would gods/goddesses of death count?

 

[Eariz]

Pretty much any war god is taboo, as using violence as a method to solve problems in our culture is taboo. That adds several dozen to your list. You'd also need to add any gods associated with debauchery, intoxication, and sex (also cultural taboos), which adds yet more several dozens to the list.

By taboo, you just mean "under the rug" right?
America is very much a war country, it's built into it's foundations.
It really depends on the cultural context you mean, because in some countries (such as the USA) war is a political game, a chessboard.

I think taboo (at it's core) is just hypocrisy really, the unwillingness to admit what is (or has already been) prevalent in one's culture.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We have three more Gods that can be taken as 'dark Gods'. One is 'Bhairava', a ferocious form of Shiva (again only for evil-doers) and Shani (Saturn). Shani is the son of Surya, the sun God and his consort Chaya (Shadow). He is a nice fellow but when he gets angry, he is uncontrollable. He is responsible for reward and punishment for good and evil deeds in this life itself. He is the brother of Yama, the God of Death and the overseer of 'Dharma', who is the son of Surya's other wife, Sandhya (meeting of one phase of the day with another, like dawn, dusk and mid-day). Yama is responsible for reward or punishment according to good or evil deeds after death. These Gods are not autocrats, they have to act according to Cosmic Law.