Communism and Anarchism

[Kirran]

On paper, its highly practical and it all depends on engineering conditions in which you can make benign rulers.

But the nature of power is such that it is "beyond good and evil" and combines both. So a Communist morality cannot be intrinsically "good" as it must also do what is "necessary".

do I hear the march of jackboots?

Not to mention corruption and selfishness!

@Wu Wei - what would you say characterises "pure anarchism". Aside from disorganised loners who might fit more into individualist anarchism or just a general kind of narcissism, most people who describe themselves simply as 'anarchist' are basically anarcho-communists. They support the establishment or emergence of a stateless society in which the people run their own affairs, hold the means of production in common and conduct themselves in a society by direct democratic means.

If you successfully prove that communism and anarchism are incompatible, I can say I've been run out of the Communist DIR by bears

 

[Laika]

Not to mention corruption and selfishness!

@Wu Wei - what would you say characterises "pure anarchism". Aside from disorganised loners who might fit more into individualist anarchism or just a general kind of narcissism, most people who describe themselves simply as 'anarchist' are basically anarcho-communists. They support the establishment or emergence of a stateless society in which the people run their own affairs, hold the means of production in common and conduct themselves in a society by direct democratic means.

If you successfully prove that communism and anarchism are incompatible, I can say I've been run out of the Communist DIR by bears

You'll be fine mate.

 

[Kirran]

You'll be fine mate.

 

[Laika]

I think we can handle it.

https://imgur.com/GDJkLuY

 

[Kirran]

I think we can handle it.

https://imgur.com/GDJkLuY

Oh ***. I have a feeling I won't be able to find an equivalent meme for Kropotkin or Bookchin

 

[Wu Wei]

Not to mention corruption and selfishness!

@Wu Wei - what would you say characterises "pure anarchism". Aside from disorganised loners who might fit more into individualist anarchism or just a general kind of narcissism, most people who describe themselves simply as 'anarchist' are basically anarcho-communists. They support the establishment or emergence of a stateless society in which the people run their own affairs, hold the means of production in common and conduct themselves in a society by direct democratic means.

If you successfully prove that communism and anarchism are incompatible, I can say I've been run out of the Communist DIR by bears

no, i make no such assumption based off word "Anarchist" since I am fairly convinced many people use words that they really do not understand the meaning of, just look at the recent US election and all the accusation thrown around on both sides and you will see my point there. However, put a prefix on it and things get a little more clear to me.

And do not let anyone run you out of anything if you truly believe what you say

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Communism is a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Saying Communism is derived from Marx is like saying evolution is derived from Charles Darwin (I use his first name, because "grandad" (or maybe his dad - I don't remember exactly) Darwin helped and educated Charles about evolution). Marxism is it's own distinct "flavor" of Communism, and it's ultimate goal is a society that is classless, moneyless, and stateless. Anarchist and Marxist may not be the same, but they have a number of similar goals, and historically and even still to a degree today remain closely related. In fact, Marx and Engels were both close associates of the Anarchist philosopher Stirner. And to trace their philosophical roots, they all draw influence from Hegel.
It's dishonest to say they are the same, or even "face value" compatible, but it's disingenuous to say they are entirely incompatible given Anarchy and Marxism both have the same goal of reduction of state power/abolishing the state.

 

[Kirran]

no, i make no such assumption based off word "Anarchist" since I am fairly convinced many people use words that they really do not understand the meaning of, just look at the recent US election and all the accusation thrown around on both sides and you will see my point there. However, put a prefix on it and things get a little more clear to me.

And do not let anyone run you out of anything if you truly believe what you say

Fair enough. Nevertheless, we must at least act as if words have some meaning.

And don't worry, I was only joking!

 

[Kirran]

Well communist society is inherently stateless by definition. Communism (note capitalization) is used to describe the revolutionary movement which desires such a society in the long term which creates a false image of state ownership being communism in many people's minds.

Yeah, that makes sense. To be honest, the lines seem very blurred. I know lots of anarchists who are pretty heavily into vanguard stuff, so I don't when they stop being just communist. Anarchists are often revolutionary. I'm not particularly myself, although I'm open to the idea.

 

[Wu Wei]

I just noticed that this is the Communism DIR and it is Communists only, I am not a Communist. My apologies for my intrusion and interfering with your discussion

 

[Laika]

I just noticed that this is the Communism DIR and it is Communists only, I am not a Communist. My apologies for my intrusion and interfering with your discussion

No worries. This place isn't exactly busy.

 

[Kirran]

@Wu Wei I just assumed you were a communist

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I just noticed that this is the Communism DIR and it is Communists only, I am not a Communist. My apologies for my intrusion and interfering with your discussion

It's good. It's actually been pleasant being able to have a pleasant conversation about Anarchy and Communism that hasn't devolved into pages of people who haven't read a single piece of Communist or Anarchist literature going on and on and on with "criticisms" of either that aren't actually criticisms but rather lies and misinformation they have been spoon fed to believe.

 

[Kirran]

Well the libertarian marxist position is that there is always a state so long as social classes persist. Even if it doesn't resemble "government" as we know it now. In this way the transition to anarchist society is one that will not immediately abolish the state.

Spoiler: State Definition (from /r/communism101)

State: The state, in Marxist terminology, is a mechanism for class rule. It is the primary instrument of political power in class society, consisting of organs of administration, and of force. A state of one kind or another will exist as long as social classes exist.

There are even some anarcho-maoists, although I don't know a bunch about them.

Being no Marxist myself, I think that the emergence of an anarchist society leaves no room for social class. As anarchist institutions, zones etc are created, part of their creation is the establishment of a classless system. So insofar as anarchist society is established, there is no class.

Could you be described as a libertarian Marxist? If so, we're both in the libertarian socialist camp

Anarcho-Maoism! Interesting. Seems to be a kind of revolutionary anarcho-syndicalism in practice.